sh1pman Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, Nertea said: Sooo... I think I fixed it.It was B9PartSwitch procedurally re-rendering the drag cubes with fuel switching. Easily fixed when I traced it, just needed to add a leaveDragCubes flag... @sh1pman, @Jarin Test link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6qsphec151nc9g0/MkIVSystem2_3_5_X2.zip?dl=0 Something is still off. Note how the middle cargo bay still has huge drag: Edited February 8, 2017 by sh1pman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarin Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, Nertea said: Sooo... I think I fixed it.It was B9PartSwitch procedurally re-rendering the drag cubes with fuel switching. Easily fixed when I traced it, just needed to add a leaveDragCubes flag... @sh1pman, @Jarin Test link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6qsphec151nc9g0/MkIVSystem2_3_5_X2.zip?dl=0 I think that did it! Got both of @sh1pman's planes to orbit, if not as efficiently as the first one did before (sorry, tail's gonna have some drag). As for my minimal-drag testbed: Those are some beautiful numbers right there. Thanks @Nertea so much for sticking with this and tracking down the issue. (though I do find it funny that the service bay has basically no drag no matter what I do to it, but that's hardly game-breaking) Edit: Oh, and the shoulder intake drag looks great too. Did you make any adjustments to the Advanced Shock Intake (the 2.5m one) like you did for the shoulder? Edited February 8, 2017 by Jarin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1pman Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 @Jarin See my previous post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarin Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, sh1pman said: @Jarin See my previous post Dangit, didn't check the middle bays on that one. (also didn't see the new page, so thought you hadn't posted; whups). So it's something about multiple contiguous cargo bays, I guess? The two larger ones back-to-back didn't have any trouble. Edit: Huh, that's weird. Now I'm seeing the huge drag on the front and back bays. Mostly the back. I wonder if the fact that I autostrutted the craft changed something... (possibly a red herring, I'm just guessing wildly at this point) Edited February 8, 2017 by Jarin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarin Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 The front-and-back thing makes sense, if the front bay has its rear node un-occluded and the rear bay has its front un-occluded (i.e. brickwall in the airstream). No clue why @sh1pman is seeing drag in the middle and not the ends though. Doesn't help that we're now testing different models. That longer one has 4x240 bays, rather than the 120s in the shared ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1pman Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jarin said: The front-and-back thing makes sense, if the front bay has its rear node un-occluded and the rear bay has its front un-occluded (i.e. brickwall in the airstream). No clue why @sh1pman is seeing drag in the middle and not the ends though. Doesn't help that we're now testing different models. That longer one has 4x240 bays, rather than the 120s in the shared ship. Just make a ship with 3x 240s and see what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarin Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 5 minutes ago, sh1pman said: Just make a ship with 3x 240s and see what happens Yup, working on it. Just having brain issues with borked wings. I don't usually build this big. XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarin Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 20 minutes ago, sh1pman said: Just make a ship with 3x 240s and see what happens Long-bay test shows the same thing for me. Front-and-back drag. Like the end-piece bays' inward-facing nodes aren't occluded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1pman Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 @Jarin I made another ship and it doesn't have enormous drag. Well, I'm really puzzled now.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarin Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 minute ago, sh1pman said: @Jarin I made another ship and it doesn't have enormous drag. Well, I'm really puzzled now.. So it looks like 4 bays is the magic number here. 3 or less and it flies fine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1pman Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) @Jarin no, my previous ship had 3 bays and still experienced drag. It had B9 procedural wings, maybe they conflict with mk4 somehow? Edited February 8, 2017 by sh1pman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarin Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 18 minutes ago, sh1pman said: @Jarin no, my previous ship had 3 bays and still experienced drag. It had B9 procedural wings, maybe they conflict with mk4 somehow? Okay, just to eliminate wings as an issue, I pulled off the tweakscaled OPT wings I'd used out of laziness and tested out this crime against nature and aerodynamics: Only stock Big-S wings, 3 bays, front-and-back drag like before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1pman Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Just now, Jarin said: Okay, just to eliminate wings as an issue, I pulled off the tweakscaled OPT wings I'd used out of laziness and tested out this crime against nature and aerodynamics: Only stock Big-S wings, 3 bays, front-and-back drag like before. And I've got front-and-middle drag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarin Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, sh1pman said: And I've got front-and-middle drag. That last plane showed no drag variation, too, which is something I haven't been able to get. Inconsistency is the bane of debugging... there's got to be a common thread in here somewhere. =/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1pman Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Jarin said: That last plane showed no drag variation, too, which is something I haven't been able to get. Inconsistency is the bane of debugging... there's got to be a common thread in here somewhere. =/ Yep, that last plane was spared of the drag bug somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarin Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) I think I'm gonna wait for @Nertea to take a look at this. Maybe there's something obvious here to someone with knowledge of the internal workings. We may be approaching the "clean install, one mod only" testing point though, which is always a pain. Edited February 8, 2017 by Jarin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1pman Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Jarin said: I think I'm gonna wait for @Nertea to take a look at this. Maybe there's something obvious here to someone with knowledge of the internal workings. We may be approaching the "clean install, one mod only" testing point though, which is always a pain. Impossible to make it one mod only, since mk4 is bundled with like 5 other mods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarin Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 13 minutes ago, sh1pman said: Impossible to make it one mod only, since mk4 is bundled with like 5 other mods. One zip file download worth of mods then. Nitpicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nertea Posted February 8, 2017 Author Share Posted February 8, 2017 I confirmed this. The bay does not occlude... other bays. Only everything else. So let's say we have this structure (C = cockpit, B = bay, F = fuselage) C- B1 - B2 - B3 - F1 B3' s front node will not be occluded, B2's rear node will not be occluded. I have no idea why this might be happening. [By the way gents, you don't need to fly the plane to test. You see the YP and YN values on the parts? those should be more or less zeroed when a part is properly occluded]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarin Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Nertea said: [By the way gents, you don't need to fly the plane to test. You see the YP and YN values on the parts? those should be more or less zeroed when a part is properly occluded]. Oh hey, that's useful. Good to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1pman Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 59 minutes ago, Nertea said: I confirmed this. The bay does not occlude... other bays. Only everything else. So let's say we have this structure (C = cockpit, B = bay, F = fuselage) C- B1 - B2 - B3 - F1 B3' s front node will not be occluded, B2's rear node will not be occluded. I have no idea why this might be happening. [By the way gents, you don't need to fly the plane to test. You see the YP and YN values on the parts? those should be more or less zeroed when a part is properly occluded]. Hmm. The first bay is completely occluded in my case. The second one has its front face unoccluded. The third bay has its back face "exposed". Aaand I somehow managed to build another plane with no drag issues whatsoever. It doesn't make any sense, my brain is melting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarin Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 7 minutes ago, sh1pman said: Hmm. The first bay is completely occluded in my case. The second one has its front face unoccluded. The third bay has its back face "exposed". Aaand I somehow managed to build another plane with no drag issues whatsoever. It doesn't make any sense, my brain is melting When you build a "non-draggy" plane, is it consistent? Or does it vary from flight to flight? If consistent, share the .craft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1pman Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Just now, Jarin said: When you build a "non-draggy" plane, is it consistent? Or does it vary from flight to flight? If consistent, share the .craft? It is pretty consistent, but right now I'm on mobile, can't share the craft file, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarin Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Nertea said: C- B1 - B2 - B3 - F1 B3' s front node will not be occluded, B2's rear node will not be occluded. I have no idea why this might be happening. Except in that setup, B2 is showing both front and rear occluded. It's B1 that has its rear open. The middle of 3 bays is working fine. And I just tested, but it looks like there's nothing special about two bays, it still shows the same behavior. I guess I did get the "plane randomly works right" bug when I test-few the big 2-bay plane before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1pman Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jarin said: The middle of 3 bays is working fine. Well, as you can see from my pictures, the middle bay isn't fine at all Quite a bit of randomness is associated with this bug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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