Maneuver Nodes are for wimps

[@@]

I feel like I'm playing pre-commercial release again, back before Kerbin even spun on its axis! Who needs the map! I love the new career mode in .90.

[klgraham1013]

Did you see that control room during the Orion launch? NASA wimps using computers and stuff. I don't need none of that!

[r_rolo1]

Well, let's be honest: you don't need maneuver nodes for anything inside Kerbin SoI ( and this includes Mun and Minmus ) as long as you remember the basics of orbital mechanics ( and some derivations, like to have the Mun/Minmus on the horizon when making the transfer burn to there ). Interplanetary trips are a completely different issue, though ...

[OhioBob]

For the first month I played KSP I didn't know that maneuver nodes existed. I still managed to get quite a bit done. It was a relief when I learned about them because they certainly made life easier.

[CaptainKipard]

If anyone is obsessive about perfect orbits (like I am) you can always do some calculations and even write a kOS script based on those calculations to control your ships.

[Linear]

You say pre-commercial like it used to be an indie game. The game has always been intended to reach a large market and sell well, the company behind harvester is pretty large.

[CaptainKipard]

Strictly speaking this is an indie game isn't it?

[sal_vager]

Hmm, we never really needed the nodes, but they are a great feature.

If anyone is struggling however I invite you to check out Kosmo-not's excellent thread on orbital rendezvous, you can find it here.

[Richy teh space man]

I remember the old school inter planetary transfers without maneouver nodes. I nearly pulled what little hair I have left out when I missed a Duna intercept once.

[r_rolo1]

Hmm, we never really needed the nodes, but they are a great feature.

I beg to disagree I would say that maneuver nodes are pretty much necessary for anything interplanetary if you don't want to alt-tab out of the game to go to a calculator, given that the game gives you no other way of planning a maneuver ( that or you have to rely on save scumming, like it happened when the planets were added ). But for Kerbin orbit you can do easily with some good sense and some basic orbit mechanics results ...

[klgraham1013]

Strictly speaking this is an indie game isn't it?

Depends if you think "indie" actually means anything.

[zarakon]

I beg to disagree I would say that maneuver nodes are pretty much necessary for anything interplanetary if you don't want to alt-tab out of the game to go to a calculator, given that the game gives you no other way of planning a maneuver ( that or you have to rely on save scumming, like it happened when the planets were added ). But for Kerbin orbit you can do easily with some good sense and some basic orbit mechanics results ...

I'm curious, how exactly do you use them to plan interplanetary transfers?

When I go to Minmus, I plan a maneuver that puts my orbit out to the distance of Minmus's orbit, and then drag the node around my Kerbin orbit until it's at the right spot to actually line up and give me an intercept.

I'd like to be able to do the same thing for going to another planet (instead of using a phase angle calculator), but I'm not sure how to do that. I can only move the node around on my orbit around Kerbin, I don't see any way to plan it for a future point in Kerbin's orbit around the sun, days or months in advance. Is there some UI trick that I don't know about?

[workerbee]

I played the majority of about 200 hours sans node-help and basically flew manual for most of it. Now, I have transitioned into using Mechjeb and nodes -- my conclusion? It's all about preference of game play and says nothing about absolutes towards any one person. Personally, I find nodes and Mechjeb to be a better representation of my intentions AND of the reality of going into space. As someone else said above, you don't see Orion being piloted by guesswork or with a firm and basic understanding of orbital mechanics alone. No. It takes a team of people to check, recheck, monitor and adapt. That's fun for me!!!

[Linear]

Strictly speaking this is an indie game isn't it?

An indie game backed by a large company. Okay.

[Special Agent Sigvan]

Did you see that control room during the Orion launch? NASA wimps using computers and stuff. I don't need none of that!

Ain't got time for no maps. I got phantom physics on my side!

(37 Kerbals died testing that)

[r_rolo1]

I'm curious, how exactly do you use them to plan interplanetary transfers?

When I go to Minmus, I plan a maneuver that puts my orbit out to the distance of Minmus's orbit, and then drag the node around my Kerbin orbit until it's at the right spot to actually line up and give me an intercept.

I'd like to be able to do the same thing for going to another planet (instead of using a phase angle calculator), but I'm not sure how to do that. I can only move the node around on my orbit around Kerbin, I don't see any way to plan it for a future point in Kerbin's orbit around the sun, days or months in advance. Is there some UI trick that I don't know about?

It is actually a easy trick:

1) After you have your ship in orbit, you put a manouver node roughly in the place in the orbit where you will burn. As a rough sketch, for planets further from the sun than Kerbin, you can point from around 135º from Kerbin prograde in the dark side and from Moho/Eve around 45º from Kerbin prograde in the light side. Don't worry much with this, that will be refined later.

2) Open the manouver node and push prograde until the transfer orbit outside Kerbin SoI reaches the target planet orbit. Most likely you will not be even close ... if you are even better

3) Close the node and open it again. You might have noticed a "-" and a "+" buttons. Those add/subtract full orbits around the body you are for the node results. In other words , if you click in the "+" it will show the result of that node if was applied 1 orbit after the original node ( the "time to node" will also change, btw ). Click the "+" until you have a encounter or atleast a decent close aproach

4) Refine the close approach using the node or by moving the node in the orbit ( try not to move it much in there, though ) until you are satisfied with the encounter.

This works relatively well with planets with low relative inclinations. For bigger inclinations you have to be more careful, but it can be done as well.

[The Destroyer]

Manuvere nodes are "Nice" but I don't need em either. Patched conics, on the other hand, I need.

[InterCity]

Well I guess that I'm a wimp. An extremely lazy one.

Sure, I *can* do that even without them like back then when I didn't know how to use them, but hey, it's nice to see the delta-v and direction required, especially when you're so drunk tired that you can't fly your spaceplanes straight. Besides I'm absolutely obsessed with perfectly circular orbits, and this is best done with maneuver nodes.

[zarakon]

3) Close the node and open it again. You might have noticed a "-" and a "+" buttons. Those add/subtract full orbits around the body you are for the node results. In other words , if you click in the "+" it will show the result of that node if was applied 1 orbit after the original node ( the "time to node" will also change, btw ). Click the "+" until you have a encounter or atleast a decent close aproach

Ahhh, I didn't know about that! I'll have to try that out for my Duna or Eve contract tonight. Thanks

[Rusty6899]

For the first month I played KSP I didn't know that maneuver nodes existed. I still managed to get quite a bit done. It was a relief when I learned about them because they certainly made life easier.

Same. I managed to get to Duna and back. That was also before I learnt about delta-v, the implication of Isp, the oberth effect and that thrust was not a good indicator of how far you would get.

I remember thinking "why would anyone use those nuclear engines? They have such a low thrust?"... Mainsails for interplanetary transfers, asparagus staging in vacuum, I committed a lot of sins back in the day.

[Nemrav]

Accepted a rescue "___" from lko orbit contract....

then I realised that I didn't have any tracking station upgrades at all....

I'm horrible at rendezvous, and I didn't quick save..

But after 5 tries and 2 different designs, I managed to do my first ever rendezvous without the maneuver nodes, had just enough fuel to get back down...

Well, I guess its harder than a mun transfer, but probably not as hard as a duna intercept...

On the note of that mission, its funny that I don't have eva ability yet, but those Kerbals are still standing themselves....

[OhioBob]

Same. I managed to get to Duna and back. That was also before I learnt about delta-v, the implication of Isp, the oberth effect and that thrust was not a good indicator of how far you would get.

I remember thinking "why would anyone use those nuclear engines? They have such a low thrust?"... Mainsails for interplanetary transfers, asparagus staging in vacuum, I committed a lot of sins back in the day.

There was definitely a learning curve, but for me it was mostly learning about the game tools. I already had the knowledge needed to design reasonably effective rockets and spacecraft, calculate delta-v, and compute maneuvers. After playing for a while it became apparent that there had to be an easier way to execute transfers then doing a bunch of manual math and holding a protractor up to the screen to measure phase and ejection angles. I finally started watching some tutorials on YouTube and it was like, "Wow, that's way easier than what I've been doing."

[michaelsteele3]

@@'s Posts: 22

You've played pre-commercial?

[Franklin]

simply love to blindly fire into the sky and not have to math it all the hell up. makes me feel raw

[zarakon]

@@'s Posts: 22

You've played pre-commercial?

Join Date: Jul 2011