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[1.2.1] Outer Planets Mod (2.1) - Active development has moved, see first post for new thread

CaptRobau

By CaptRobau
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Whirligig Girl

Whirligig Girl

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The moon is called Tal and is actually a moon of Wal. That's right, OPM is getting a so-called subsatellite or a moon of a moon. There is no known confirmed real-life example of such a thing, but scientists have calculated it would be possible for certain moons to have small stable satellites around them, specifically Rhea and Iapetus. The cause of Iapetus' equatorial ridge has also been theorized to have been caused by moon that has since been destroyed or ejected. Since Iapetus is a partial inspiration for Wal and Urlum's other moons also have a unique relationship (Priax is a trojan moon of Polta), Tal felt like a perfect fit for Wal and a great way to add another small moon that did feel unique.

Please no. At the very least reposition Wal so it's much further away and therefore has a higher Hill-Sphere.

At least run some orbital stability tests in something like Universe Sandbox.

There's a reason there's no subsattellites in the real world (that are known). It's because they are nearly impossible to stay stable over long periods of time.

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Captain Planet

Captain Planet

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Having Tal as a subsatellite is both awesome and slightly concerning, but my mixed feelings are overridden by my trust that you guys know what you're doing. So far you're absolutely killing it, no other planet pack comes close to this one's level of quality. I eagerly await New Horizon's arrival this summer so that I can see what the Pluto analog will look like in-game.

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babale

babale

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I strongly disagree with the worries about Tal! I love the idea! Yes, we don't have one in our solar system, but the fact that we haven't discovered one yet means nothing. We know virtually nothing about extrasolar planets, and we know even less about their planets, and EVEN LESS about their moons. If the orbital mechanics work in theory, I buy it. And at the end of the day, what really matters is gameplay, and this would be a unique and fun mechanic. I always thought that the change of Moho to lose that ridiculously difficult atmosphere hurt the game because it was a unique gameplay mechanic that led to interesting decisions. Unique circumstances like that need to be found in more places.

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CaptRobau

CaptRobau

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Please no. At the very least reposition Wal so it's much further away and therefore has a higher Hill-Sphere.

At least run some orbital stability tests in something like Universe Sandbox.

There's a reason there's no subsattellites in the real world (that are known). It's because they are nearly impossible to stay stable over long periods of time.

Universe Sandbox is a good idea. I'm intrigued by how it would end up.

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Streetwind

Streetwind

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Being inspired by real life is good. Letting oneself be limited by real life for the sake of nothing but blind realism is not. :P

I have no problem whatsoever with the subsatellite Tal and think it's an interesting addition! And I don't think there's any real argument to be made for not having it. Even if it turns out to be not entirely stable, 1.) it would still not be the least realistic celestial element in the Kerbol system by far, and 2.) less than a percent of the playerbase would have the necessary background knowledge to even question it, much less take offense.

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hazard-ish

hazard-ish

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I'll admit, due to the fact that there are no real life analogues of a sub-moon like Tal, I am slightly concerned. I'll have to see for myself how large Tal is and how far from Wal it orbits so decide whether I am convinced by the idea, but I still think it is very interesting.

Also, it should be noted that, whilst this mod is known for it's stock like and realistic feel, simply having an unstable orbit in the long term is not enough to dismiss the idea. Afterall, Vall has an extremely unrealistic orbit that, with correct N-body physics, would not last at all long in the real world! This is due to it being sandwiched between two very large gravity wells. Check out this like which explains my point:

Could be get some sort of concept images of Tal soon?

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Whirligig Girl

Whirligig Girl

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Universe Sandbox is a good idea. I'm intrigued by how it would end up.

Actually, I have a better idea. Save Tal for Neidon. Put it around a Moon that's at the edge of Neidon's SOI. Triton-like captures tend to kick higher orbits much further out and keep inner orbits more stable. This means that you would find moons at the edge of Neptune's SOI very very far out. If you were to put a moon there, a subsatellite would be stable around that if the moon was large enough.

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lajoswinkler

lajoswinkler

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Indeed, I tend to agree with GregroxMun. Subsatellite (I'm glad the name stuck) is a splendid idea, highly eccentric one is even more, but Wal is too close to Urlum for it. Such system could not survive even one orbital period and after few wobbly orbits the subsatellite would either be ejected or would crash into something, possibly Urlum. It is much more unstable than the usual things we ignore like Joolean system which falls apart in a hundred years or so.

If there was a larger satellite of Neidon on the outskirts of Neidon's SOI, that could work if its tiny subsatellite's periapsis wasn't close to Roche limit and its apoapsis wasn't very close to SOI edge. It wouldn't be stable on a geological timespan, but few tens of thousands of years could work and that could fit in the description.

Actually I'd expect such things to happen in real stellar systems.

Also I'll check the science description thingy. Maybe I could help.

Edited by lajoswinkler
mistyped Sarnus and Urlum; thx GregroxMun
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Sigma88

Sigma88

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Wal is too close to Sarnus for it.

grammarnaziplz.gif?1Wal orbits Urlum. (Sorry for the nitpick)grammarnaziplz.gif?1

:D

On a more serious note, I have complete faith in capt.

If he decides to do it around Urlum and Wal I think he has his reasons and can explain them to everybody.

But I believe the points you made are valid and I don't think capt will leave them unanswered.

Edited by Sigma88
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Elowiny

Elowiny

Posted
Posted (edited)

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TD]This moon around Wal idea is great ! It would add more challenges and originality to the mod.[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

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[/TR]

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[/TR]

[TR]

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[/TR]

[TR]

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[/TR]

[/TABLE]

I also noticed that Wal is a wallnut, Priax is cheese, and Polta is mint !

Edited by Elowiny
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CaptRobau

CaptRobau

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Also, could you reveal the orbital inclination of Tal? It would help with writing the blurbs. I assume it has very little inclination so it can be viewed directly above the equator but I could be wrong.

It's pretty much equatorial.

- - - Updated - - -

I just finished all of Wal's science blurbs!

(I really like Wal)

Thanks.

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Sahadara

Sahadara

Posted
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Hi.

I installed RSS x6.4 and OPM, then put the OPM x6.4 fix and now I only have the original planets and no Outer planets.

Did I do something wrong?

I can't know what it is specifically, but it's probably a mistake in the RSS config file. The way it works, if there's even a tiny formatting error, it just doesn't load anything and doesn't give a report. I recommend looking at the format of the default RSS config and make sure yours matches in terms of formatting.

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lurkoholic

lurkoholic

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Hi.

I installed RSS x6.4 and OPM, then put the OPM x6.4 fix and now I only have the original planets and no Outer planets.

Did I do something wrong?

Did you use SpaceHungryMan's updated OPM 64K? Make sure you download it by clicking "Download ZIP" on the github page, and not one of the releases. It worked for me, but I didn't use the cloud pack configurations, since I wasn't using EVE (I don't think those would affect the planets showing up, anyway).

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CaptRobau

CaptRobau

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I didn't manage to get a real simulation going in Universe Sandbox, but I have adjusted Wal's orbit to make the sub satellite feel more plausible. It's double the original SMA, which makes it's orbit in comparison to the inner moons and Urlum similar to Iapetus' orbit around Saturn and its inner moons. Since Iapetus is the moon with a potential sub satellite, I think it's going to be a good enough approximation.

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Eleven

Eleven

Posted
Posted

While we're all talking and waiting for new moons, here's a SS I took of Urlum and all it's moons in one frame. It was a pleasant surprise while trying to get my Urlum satellite where I wanted it:

zYogamL.png

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CaptRobau

CaptRobau

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How will Tal look like ?

Also, I noticed something very interesting :

Wal-->Wall-Nut (Plant Vs Zombies)

Tal-->Tall-Nut (Plant Vs Zombies !)

Is it intended or just a coincidence ?

Coincidence. Wal was based on a moon made by Porkjet which was never released and that was gathering dust on his harddrive. He gave us the files (for Wal and several other planets/moons) and the right to do what we wanted with it and we based Wal on that concept (Tekto also started out as a Porkjet moon). So the name was made up by Porkjet. There was also a smaller moon that Porkjet made that was called Dal. It wasn't a subsatellite of Wal as far as I know, but the name fit together so well for a moon and its moon that we used it. As time went on we ditched Porkjet's look for that moon but kept the name, which slowly morphed into Tal instead of Dal.

While we're all talking and waiting for new moons, here's a SS I took of Urlum and all it's moons in one frame. It was a pleasant surprise while trying to get my Urlum satellite where I wanted it:

http://i.imgur.com/zYogamL.png

That's very cool.

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HQi88

HQi88

Posted
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Just wondering... how do i install the Plock plus mod for this? i replaced some files (which was probably not a good idea) and then KSP wouldnt load the any of the planets. So i deleted all of the Outer planets mod and re installed it but im still not sure how to install the plock plus mod

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CaptRobau

CaptRobau

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I'm guessing it's just: install OPM, don't change anything, install Plock Plus over it. You should ask in its thread though for a more concrete answer. It was made for this mod, instead of the other way around. I have no idea how it's set up.

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