NASA wants people to sleep

[Dispatcher]

That's just ridiculous. Public and private medical research employs paid test subjects on a regular basis. Are you guys just discovering the practice? How do you think vaccines, medicine, and cosmetics are developed? How do you think medical research is done without testing and comparing on a panel of test subjects?

As for highly paid/highly qualified employees, aren't they better put to use on work that requires those high qualifications they are paid for?

Nib, there are no surprises in your reply. However, I do not consider someone who isn't already bedridden to be undergoing either routine testing or extreme short term testing, when said testing is on the order of months. Also, clinical studies involving test subjects often are testing new methods or substances for people already suffering from a particular set of maladies and who may deem the risks to be acceptable. In the case of the proposed NASA testing, this is presumably subjecting healthy subjects to potentially harmful circumstances. Astronauts take the risks of their profession in stride, as volunteers; their profession also has enough perks to make their decisions to be guinea pigs in orbit worth the risks. I'm not sure who you are referring to by "you guys" in your comment.

As for NASA employees inherently being more useful by functioning at their pay scale in their current jobs, you seem to be implying that those who would allow themselves to be subjected to such testing are more useful as test subjects than they are as contributors to society in their present capacities. Of course such testing might appeal to someone who already lives under extreme conditions (such as being temporarily homeless) or who wants to selflessly aid in the advance of science (but the fact that such testing is desired implies that there may be dangers associated by undergoing them, regardless of promises to monitor and rectify identified short term problems).

If NASA wants healthy people to take such risks, then at least the recompense ought to be more equitable (and include in that package the premiums for the mandated insurance coverage).

[RainDreamer]

The transition from 1G to 0G is trivial. Some people would get space-sickness, from their spatial senses being confused (not knowing where is 'down'), but it's not lethal. It's the transition from 0G to 1G that's problematic. For some reason, the body adjust their internal composure according to current mechanical loads, so if it is put in a 0G condition, the structural parts (bone, muscles) weaken because they no longer have to bear their own weight.

I'm imagining that someone who spent too much time in 0G conditions becoming so adapted to the weightlessness in that condition, their bodies are too weak to return to Earth without some sort of exoskeleton to keep it from collapsing under its own weight.

So can the body once again be adapted with 1G through physical therapy? Or is it that the only way for any long term sustainable missions to happen would be having artificial gravity so that the astronauts' bodies wouldn't experiencing deterioration?

[Dispatcher]

So can the body once again be adapted with 1G through physical therapy? Or is it that the only way for any long term sustainable missions to happen would be having artificial gravity so that the astronauts' bodies wouldn't experiencing deterioration?

Good points, RainDreamer. Since we developed in a 1 G environment (at least on the surface of the planet), it would be no surprise if we need some amount of gravity force while in flight. This would pretty much require such missions to include simulated gravity. This could be done by rotating the craft sufficiently or using a setup where the crew cabin is on one end of a tether and the remainder of the craft at at the other end; the ends would rotate about a common center. Of course the ideal would be a constant 1 G acceleration/ deceleration, but our technology doesn't yet allow for practical constant burns.

[shynung]

We may be able to halt, or at least slow down the deterioration of the body through physical exercise and medical therapies. How effective it actually is, however, I have little idea. Artificial gravity would help, but I'm not sure how little artificial gravity is enough to preserve bodily function. If we can get away with Mars gravity rather than 1G, the spacecraft structure for artificial gravity can be lightened for more delta-V.

Edited December 31, 2014 by shynung

[Javster]

I would, but my social life would suffer.

Wait, I have no social life!

[lajoswinkler]

I honestly don't think it's that dangerous. The subjects are under constant medical supervision so the yet can be interrupted immediately before it gets dangerous, and they will certainly be followed and treated for any effects after the experiment. The return to "normal gravity" is a major part of the research.

In that case, sign me up!

[technicalfool]

To previous posters: Don't make me have to come wading in here with the Baseball Bat of Post Deletion +5. You know who you are, now stop it.

And hey, 70 days in bed getting paid to glue my eyes to web forums and IRC channels sounds doable. Shame I don't qualify.

[Brethern]

We may be able to halt, or at least slow down the deterioration of the body through physical exercise and medical therapies. How effective it actually is, however, I have little idea. Artificial gravity would help, but I'm not sure how little artificial gravity is enough to preserve bodily function. If we can get away with Mars gravity rather than 1G, the spacecraft structure for artificial gravity can be lightened for more delta-V.

It was already proven back in the 80's that humans can survive 300+ days in space using exercise, I believe the guys name was Valeri Polyakov. So gravity isn't the issue it's dealing with boredom.

[Bill Phil]

It was already proven back in the 80's that humans can survive 300+ days in space using exercise, I believe the guys name was Valeri Polyakov. So gravity isn't the issue it's dealing with boredom.

Survive and operate successfully are two different things. He had sone trouble when he got back... And what about the eventual missions with many years in space?

[LABHOUSE]

Is bone/muscle loss really unstoppable? Can healthy exercise only delay it? Because I remember in a documentary they said the astronauts on SkyLab came back in better physical condition then when they left.

They did, BUT ​they were not up there very long.

[Vanamonde]

Upon review, we've removed a number of posts from this thread after all.

I don't think anybody here is qualified to state whether anything can be learned from this study, and whether NASA is able to conduct it safely, and there's certainly no need to cast aspersions on the personnel of NASA. Keep it on-topic, and stop insulting each other, folks.

[Nibb31]

As I said in one of the previous posts, these long duration bed rest experiments are nothing new. NASA and ESA have been conducting them routinely for many years with hundreds of test subjects without any long term health problems.

The following paper has a pretty good description of one of these tests conducted in 2009:

http://prtl.uhcl.edu/portal/page/portal/SCE/Natural_Sciences/NS_Documents/Reprints_Cromwell_Talk.pdf

During this test, subjects got visits and phone calls from NASA astronauts and even got to chat with ISS crewmembers in orbit. They had access to entertainment, family visits, psychological support, etc... There were also regular followup exams during a year after the bedrest period. It's a very interesting read and demonstrates that the folks conducting these tests are not reckless idiots.

If you google "long duration bed rest experiment" you'll find plenty of other papers on similar tests, because as I said earlier, these have become pretty routine in medical space research. As more of these tests are conducted, and knowledge of the conditions is improved, any durable health risks are increasingly reduced.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Nibb31

[lajoswinkler]

It was already proven back in the 80's that humans can survive 300+ days in space using exercise, I believe the guys name was Valeri Polyakov. So gravity isn't the issue it's dealing with boredom.

No, that proved Valeri Polyakov can survive in space using excercise.

There is enough mutual differences between humans that various problems arise when you put them in such weird conditions for enough time.

[Dispatcher]

As I said in one of the previous posts, these long duration bed rest experiments are nothing new. NASA and ESA have been conducting them routinely for many years with hundreds of test subjects without any long term health problems.

The following paper has a pretty good description of one of these tests conducted in 2009:

http://prtl.uhcl.edu/portal/page/portal/SCE/Natural_Sciences/NS_Documents/Reprints_Cromwell_Talk.pdf

During this test, subjects got visits from NASA astronauts and even got to have a chat with the ISS crew in orbit. They got access to entertainment, family visits, psychological support, etc... It's a very interesting read and demonstrates that the folks conducting these tests are not reckless idiots.

If you google "long duration bed rest experiment" you'll find plenty of other papers on similar tests, because as I said earlier, these are pretty routine in medical space research.

Thanks for the link, Nibb31. It was an interesting read. I'll bet those bedpans were fun. When all is said and done, there appears to be no shortage of people who are willing to subject themselves to such test conditions/ requirements. I still think they are under compensated, and there may long term risks which have yet to be identified; even if rare in occurrence. There is no way I'd volunteer for such testing, but to those of you who want that, and are accepted; good luck!

[Not-A-Rocket-Scientist]

It's actually $10.71/hour, using 24 hours a day for 70 days.

Don't forget that most people don't work 24/7

[Brethern]

No, that proved Valeri Polyakov can survive in space using excercise.

There is enough mutual differences between humans that various problems arise when you put them in such weird conditions for enough time.

And as long as NASA refuses to lower the bar and only accepts astronauts that are the correct mix of crazy, resourceful and determined enough the techniques used will work.

[Grand Lander]

After doing the poll and saw the result, i felt like i should have chosen the other answer...