[1.3.x] SETI, Unmanned before Manned [Patreon]

[Olsson]

I never experienced this or heard of it. Thus my assumption is, that it is caused by some other mod, but triggered by CTT/SETIctt. Could you provide a screenshot of your gamedata folder?

When I start the SETI BalanceMod again, I will seperate some of the balancing configs from the current SETIctt and shift them over to the balance mod.

At the moment it is just not time efficient for me support 2 mods.

However the materials bay and mystery goo would still be part of the SETIctt. Because the SETIctt intends to create a better science/tech progression, especially considering probes.

The materials bay now has a mass of 80kg instead of 200 while giving the same base science, which is balanced with the transmission value. Making it collectible is a serious nerf for probes compared to manned missions.

I understand your reasoning and I stand corrected.

The question is how much of a nerf is it really when SETIctt also nerfs manned missions in the sense that you use life support, deadly re-entry and unlock tech required for manned missions much slower.

That is, if we're talking about the package and not the SETIctt on its own.

[Yemo]

I understand your reasoning and I stand corrected.

The question is how much of a nerf is it really when SETIctt also nerfs manned missions in the sense that you use life support, deadly re-entry and unlock tech required for manned missions much slower.

That is, if we're talking about the package and not the SETIctt on its own.

I intended it to provide gradual incentives.

Eg for material bay at 80kg/24base science.

Probe only: transmission - 30%, only useable once

Scientist: transmission - 30%, but resettable/reusable

Mobile Lab (2 kerbals): boosted transmission - 75% (or so, dont remember), resettable/reusable

Return - 100%

Big, heavy Lab (planned, like BalanceMod, 3 kerbals, 10 tons) from Station Science: boosted transmission - 100%, resettable/reuseable

Also you have to take all the factors into account when comparing to other experiments. Like the "doable everywhere" biome mask.

I do not consider it to be a nerf for manned missions, rather a "balancing the incentives".

A mobile processing lab really does what it says, it boosts experiments beyond the presence of a scientist. Not only the "activate and warp for science" stuff.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Yemo

[dizzysaurus]

I never experienced this or heard of it. Thus my assumption is, that it is caused by some other mod, but triggered by CTT/SETIctt. Could you provide a screenshot of your gamedata folder?

Currently I've removed TweakScale.

000_USITools
BahaSP
CommunityResourcePack
CommunityTechTree
Corvus
DMagicOrbitalScience
Firespitter
HGR
InterstellarFuelSwitch
Kerbaltek
KineTechAnimation
Klockheed_Martian_Gimbal
KWRocketry
MechJeb2
Mk2Essentials
Mk2Expansion
ModuleAnimateEmissive
ModuleManager.2.6.3.dll
ModuleManager.2.6.5.dll
ModuleManager.ConfigCache
ModuleManager.ConfigSHA
ModuleManager.Physics
ModuleManager.TechTree
NearFutureConstruction
NearFutureProps
NearFutureSpacecraft
RSCapsuledyne
SCANsat
SETIctt
Squad
StationPartsExpansion
SurfaceLights
UmbraSpaceIndustries
UniversalStorage

I have installed: Corvus pod, Surface lights, SETI community tech tree, Community Tech Tree, KW Rocketry, HyperEdit, MechJeb, DMagic Science, SCANSat, Universal Storage, Taurus HCV, FTT, Stockalike Station Parts, Near Future Construction, Near Future Spacecraft (just the command modules), MK2 Essentials, and MK2 Expansion. Each of the modules should be the latest within the last couple of days releases. I've also been a sad sad cheater and added MechJeb + electrical generator to many of the command pods/modules in Squad's folder.

If you want the above folder zipped up somewhere, let me know.

I'm going to give just TweakScale, SETI CTT+CTT, MechJeb and HyperEdit a try and see if I get the same issue.

Thanks!

PS. BTW I'm using Windows 7, 64 bit OS, 32 bit KSP.

Edited May 24, 2015 by dizzysaurus
added extra info

[Yemo]

Currently I've removed TweakScale.

000_USITools
BahaSP
CommunityResourcePack
CommunityTechTree
Corvus
DMagicOrbitalScience
Firespitter
HGR
InterstellarFuelSwitch
Kerbaltek
KineTechAnimation
Klockheed_Martian_Gimbal
KWRocketry
MechJeb2
Mk2Essentials
Mk2Expansion
ModuleAnimateEmissive
ModuleManager.2.6.3.dll
ModuleManager.2.6.5.dll
ModuleManager.ConfigCache
ModuleManager.ConfigSHA
ModuleManager.Physics
ModuleManager.TechTree
NearFutureConstruction
NearFutureProps
NearFutureSpacecraft
RSCapsuledyne
SCANsat
SETIctt
Squad
StationPartsExpansion
SurfaceLights
UmbraSpaceIndustries
UniversalStorage

I have installed: Corvus pod, Surface lights, SETI community tech tree, Community Tech Tree, KW Rocketry, HyperEdit, MechJeb, DMagic Science, SCANSat, Universal Storage, Taurus HCV, FTT, Stockalike Station Parts, Near Future Construction, Near Future Spacecraft (just the command modules), MK2 Essentials, and MK2 Expansion. Each of the modules should be the latest within the last couple of days releases. I've also been a sad sad cheater and added MechJeb + electrical generator to many of the command pods/modules in Squad's folder.

If you want the above folder zipped up somewhere, let me know.

I'm going to give just TweakScale, SETI CTT+CTT, MechJeb and HyperEdit a try and see if I get the same issue.

Thanks!

PS. BTW I'm using Windows 7, 64 bit OS, 32 bit KSP.

Well, from a first glance I can only say that you have multiple ModuleManagers, which is a sure recipe for problems. Not sure about the rest.

[kcs123]

I think that I have encountered same bug as dizzysaurus.

It happens when craft contain some part from DMagic orbital science or SCANsat. I'm not exactly sure which one caused this.

Everything behave normal and suddenly camera goes out of focus from craft and remain focused on some imaginary object far behind craft.

I need more time to narrow down mods involved in this bug, but if someone is interested, here is SETIctt KAX Heli craft file. I have made some changes to KAX parts, to make them more functional.

I have described changes in KAX development thread. Maybe it will be good to create MM config file instead, if developers of KAX does not include it in their main release or provide with better solution. Without it, there is no much sense to have such part in game at all.

Here is galery of described bug:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Also, my craft exchange thread contains more pictures of that KAX Heli and same link for craft files.

[sherkaner]

Out of curiosity, have you ever messed with the KerbinSide mod? Any idea how well/poorly it and its contracts might interact with SETI?

Edited May 24, 2015 by sherkaner

[Lord Aurelius]

I have KerbinSide installed on my game along with SETI and there aren't any issues.

Any mod that doesn't add any parts (or mess with the tech tree or SETI contracts) is almost guaranteed to work with SETI. The KerbinSide contracts should work fine as well since they don't touch the starting contracts.

[theonegalen]

I have SETI and KS, but I'm not using any of the SETI contracts.

On another note, I've made a mm cfg file to make the Fantom Works KAX expansion fit a little better with the SETIctt, but I see the SETI license is "All Rights Reserved." Therefore, I am not going to post it unless I get Yemo's permission.

[Yemo]

I think that I have encountered same bug as dizzysaurus.

It happens when craft contain some part from DMagic orbital science or SCANsat. I'm not exactly sure which one caused this.

Everything behave normal and suddenly camera goes out of focus from craft and remain focused on some imaginary object far behind craft.

I need more time to narrow down mods involved in this bug, but if someone is interested, here is SETIctt KAX Heli craft file. I have made some changes to KAX parts, to make them more functional.

I have described changes in KAX development thread. Maybe it will be good to create MM config file instead, if developers of KAX does not include it in their main release or provide with better solution. Without it, there is no much sense to have such part in game at all.

Here is galery of described bug:

http://imgur.com/a/joRt0

Also, my craft exchange thread contains more pictures of that KAX Heli and same link for craft files.

Hm, those are 2 mods I almost always install for my personal games. Please let me know if you find out what is causing this.

While I do not like the strong reaction wheels in general (I nerfed them for the balancemod), it might just be the best way to simulate a real heli, given the game engine restrictions.

I ll wait for a response in the KAX thread and then see if it makes sense to include this in the SETIctt or wait until the balance mod relaunch.

Thank you very much!

Will visit the craft exchange thread, some very nice concepts in there!

Out of curiosity, have you ever messed with the KerbinSide mod? Any idea how well/poorly it and its contracts might interact with SETI?

I have KerbinSide installed on my game along with SETI and there aren't any issues.

Any mod that doesn't add any parts (or mess with the tech tree or SETI contracts) is almost guaranteed to work with SETI. The KerbinSide contracts should work fine as well since they don't touch the starting contracts.

While I have no experience with KerbinSide myself, as Lord Aurelius stated, there should be no problems.

I have SETI and KS, but I'm not using any of the SETI contracts.

On another note, I've made a mm cfg file to make the Fantom Works KAX expansion fit a little better with the SETIctt, but I see the SETI license is "All Rights Reserved." Therefore, I am not going to post it unless I get Yemo's permission.

The "All Rights Reserved/Ask First" license only affects the configs I made, if you want to distribute your own configs working with/for SETI, I m all for it (and even if I were not, it would not be up to me to decide).

The ARR/AF license is mainly intended to prevent unorthorized forks (there was quite a forum war last year), not to prevent compatibility/development.

I supported FantomWorks in the SETI BalanceMod, but my interest in KSP has declined quite a bit given the experiences during the last month, so development/catching up is rather slow at the moment.

[Sput42]

The current version of SETIctt does not play well with the new Deadly Reentry. The reason is that it sets some parts (specifically themometers, barometers, struts and fuel pipes) to be massless, and DRE really hates that. The result is tons of nullpointer exceptions in the log and a significant framerate drop.

I manually edited some low mass into SETIctt/MM-PartModding/SETI-PartMod-SQUAD-Science.cfg, and things work properly again.

[kerbsy]

Hi,

Something's up with SETI that is breaking my satellite contracts. I have the latest version of SETI contracts (and CTT), along with the latest Contract Configurator. Every time I do a satellite contract, I put the vessel in the correct orbit, but I get no notifications. In the contract window I don't even get a green check next to "Launch an unmanned probe". I've tried the usual switching back to the Tracking Station and switching back but it just doesn't see it. I have a couple of other contract packs (Anomaly Surveyor, Space Stations & SCAN Lite) but they don't affect anything when removed. The game recognizes the satellite and completes the contract immediately when SETI Contracts is removed though.

Here are my other mods:

I've reinstalled the entire game and made new saves twice to no avail. This is with the last couple versions of SETI and last 2 or 3 versions of Contract Configurator.

Am I missing any other dependencies? Anything known not to play nice?

[kcs123]

I have made some test and found parts that cause weird camera bug. To trigger bug you need to have such part on craft and fly in realtime for about 2-3 minutes until bug occur.

I belive all of them are from DMagic orbital science:

• Presmat / 2 Hot
  
• Accelerometer / Gravmax
  
• ASERT
  
• Atmospheric sensor
  
• Goresat
  
• Magnetometer Boom
  
• Multi-spectar Imaging Platform
  
• Mystery Goo Containment
  
• Orbital telescope
  
• RPWS Antenna
  
• SC-9001 Science
  
• Soil Moisture sensor
  
• Solar particle collector
  

All of them performs weird in SPH editor too. They require free node to be able to attach on craft. When you attach them to craft, some of parts does not allow you to select them again with mouse left or right click either. Some parts highlight themself and parrent part where they were attached, showing parrent part name in tooltip instead of part you hover mouse over.

Still need to perform same test on "clean" install with minimum mods, to be sure that is only DMagic Orbital Science mod is involved.

[Yemo]

The current version of SETIctt does not play well with the new Deadly Reentry. The reason is that it sets some parts (specifically themometers, barometers, struts and fuel pipes) to be massless, and DRE really hates that. The result is tons of nullpointer exceptions in the log and a significant framerate drop.

I manually edited some low mass into SETIctt/MM-PartModding/SETI-PartMod-SQUAD-Science.cfg, and things work properly again.

Hm, I assumed DeadlyReentry had this bug fixed in one of the last version, apparently it was forgotten.

Could you post this in the DeadlyReentry please? Hope it gets fixed.

Hi,

Something's up with SETI that is breaking my satellite contracts. I have the latest version of SETI contracts (and CTT), along with the latest Contract Configurator. Every time I do a satellite contract, I put the vessel in the correct orbit, but I get no notifications. In the contract window I don't even get a green check next to "Launch an unmanned probe". I've tried the usual switching back to the Tracking Station and switching back but it just doesn't see it. I have a couple of other contract packs (Anomaly Surveyor, Space Stations & SCAN Lite) but they don't affect anything when removed. The game recognizes the satellite and completes the contract immediately when SETI Contracts is removed though.

Here are my other mods:

http://i.imgur.com/e2mcgRi.png

I've reinstalled the entire game and made new saves twice to no avail. This is with the last couple versions of SETI and last 2 or 3 versions of Contract Configurator.

Am I missing any other dependencies? Anything known not to play nice?

Hm, I m not sure what causes this, I do not see any problems within the GameData folder.

What contract are you referring to? One of the stock contracts or one from the RemoteTech pack?

Could you state the requirements listed for the contract?

Do you have RemoteTech itself installed?

Also do you change anything on your vessel, with which you try to complete the contract? Eg batteries, com device and so on.

[Lord Aurelius]

I've noticed some of those VAB issues as well, but I thought it was due to Ven's stock revamp (I saw similar issues with it in 0.90 where certain parts weren't selectable, and I just ran into some issues with it last night). Could be some weird interaction going on there.

[Yemo]

I have made some test and found parts that cause weird camera bug. To trigger bug you need to have such part on craft and fly in realtime for about 2-3 minutes until bug occur.

I belive all of them are from DMagic orbital science:

• Presmat / 2 Hot
  
• Accelerometer / Gravmax
  
• ASERT
  
• Atmospheric sensor
  
• Goresat
  
• Magnetometer Boom
  
• Multi-spectar Imaging Platform
  
• Mystery Goo Containment
  
• Orbital telescope
  
• RPWS Antenna
  
• SC-9001 Science
  
• Soil Moisture sensor
  
• Solar particle collector
  

All of them performs weird in SPH editor too. They require free node to be able to attach on craft. When you attach them to craft, some of parts does not allow you to select them again with mouse left or right click either. Some parts highlight themself and parrent part where they were attached, showing parrent part name in tooltip instead of part you hover mouse over.

Still need to perform same test on "clean" install with minimum mods, to be sure that is only DMagic Orbital Science mod is involved.

Wow, thats quite a list and quite some work!

Most of those parts are not touched by SETIctt in any way, which makes it even stranger.

Thank you for investigating!

I ll also take a look into the DMagic thread, maybe something like this was reported there?

[nightingale]

Hm, I assumed DeadlyReentry had this bug fixed in one of the last version, apparently it was forgotten.

Could you post this in the DeadlyReentry please? Hope it gets fixed.

Hm, I m not sure what causes this, I do not see any problems within the GameData folder.

What contract are you referring to? One of the stock contracts or one from the RemoteTech pack?

Could you state the requirements listed for the contract?

Do you have RemoteTech itself installed?

Also do you change anything on your vessel, with which you try to complete the contract? Eg batteries, com device and so on.

Also anytime there's an issue with parameters not firing it's undoubtedly something that crashed the contract system, for which I would need a log to investigate.

[kerbsy]

Hm, I assumed DeadlyReentry had this bug fixed in one of the last version, apparently it was forgotten.

Could you post this in the DeadlyReentry please? Hope it gets fixed.

Hm, I m not sure what causes this, I do not see any problems within the GameData folder.

What contract are you referring to? One of the stock contracts or one from the RemoteTech pack?

Could you state the requirements listed for the contract?

Do you have RemoteTech itself installed?

Also do you change anything on your vessel, with which you try to complete the contract? Eg batteries, com device and so on.

It's just a plain old stock contract:

This is in the game with the satellite as the focus.

And when I delete SETI Contracts from the GameData folder and restart the game:

I don't have RemoteTech or anything else that I think would affect it. I'm running W8.1 x64, I don't know if that would do anything to it... UAC is turned off. The SETI contracts themselves are messed up too; the "Orbit Kerbin" contract launched okay and recognized the ship was there, but the 40-minute counter stopped counting in the contracts window, and after the 40 minutes was up it just disappeared entirely. Doesn't even show up in the Archives of Mission Control.

[kerbsy]

Well it seems to have resolved itself, at least for the time being. All I did was try putting SETIContracts in the Contract Packs folder, started the game, then moved it back to GameData.

I do have a log from when the game crashed a little earlier today if you'd like it.

Edit: Nevermind, one launch later it stopped updating contracts again.

Edited May 26, 2015 by kerbsy

[nightingale]

Well it seems to have resolved itself, at least for the time being. All I did was try putting SETIContracts in the Contract Packs folder, started the game, then moved it back to GameData.

I do have a log from when the game crashed a little earlier today if you'd like it.

Edit: Nevermind, one launch later it stopped updating contracts again.

See my post at the top of the page - I do want that log!

[kerbsy]

From earlier today:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/iyjlyluae50nfde/output_log%20%281%29.txt?dl=0

(The vessel I was testing this with is "TempSat 1")

Just tried another reinstall, same thing happened after some time:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jkbsu6an09fy1bk/output_log.txt?dl=0

Edited May 26, 2015 by kerbsy

[nightingale]

Looks like you're running stuff that is incompatible with 1.0.2:

AddonLoader: Instantiating addon 'DMRecoveryWatcher' from assembly 'DMagic' 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)


MissingFieldException: Field '.GameEvents.OnScienceRecieved' not found.


UnityEngine.GameObject:Internal_AddComponentWithType(Type)
UnityEngine.GameObject:AddComponent(Type)
AddonLoader:StartAddon(LoadedAssembly, Type, KSPAddon, Startup)
AddonLoader:StartAddons(Startup)
AddonLoader:OnLevelWasLoaded(Int32)




AddonLoader: Instantiating addon 'DMTransmissionWatcher' from assembly 'DMagic'

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 56)


MissingFieldException: Field '.GameEvents.OnScienceRecieved' not found.


UnityEngine.GameObject:Internal_AddComponentWithType(Type)
UnityEngine.GameObject:AddComponent(Type)
AddonLoader:StartAddon(LoadedAssembly, Type, KSPAddon, Startup)
AddonLoader:StartAddons(Startup)
AddonLoader:OnLevelWasLoaded(Int32)

No sure which ones those are from exactly, but something of DMagic's. Later on in the log it fails on those some errors and brings down the contract system with it.

[kerbsy]

No sure which ones those are from exactly, but something of DMagic's. Later on in the log it fails on those some errors and brings down the contract system with it.

Well that would be it. DMagic 1.0.3 is out, and look what's in the changelog:

• Updated for KSP 1.0.2
  
  • Fix contracts breaking
    

Sorry for clogging up your thread guys!

[Yemo]

Might that also be related to the zoom bug reported on the previous pages?

[kcs123]

Camera bug

I finally found out reasons behind it. I will put all data from my previous posts in this one, to make things easier to read if anyone encounter simmilar issues.

:

It happens when craft contain some part from DMagic orbital science or SCANsat. I'm not exactly sure which one caused this.

Everything behave normal and suddenly camera goes out of focus from craft and remain focused on some imaginary object far behind craft.

I need more time to narrow down mods involved in this bug.

Here is galery of described bug:

 

 

 

After some more testing I have narrowed down issues to this part list(from other post):

To trigger bug you need to have such part on craft and fly in realtime for about 2-3 minutes until bug occur.

I belive all of them are from DMagic orbital science:

 

• Presmat / 2 Hot
• Accelerometer / Gravmax
• ASERT
• Atmospheric sensor
• Goresat
• Magnetometer Boom
• Multi-spectar Imaging Platform
• Mystery Goo Containment
• Orbital telescope
• RPWS Antenna
• SC-9001 Science
• Soil Moisture sensor
• Solar particle collector

 

All of them performs weird in SPH editor too. They require free node to be able to attach on craft. When you attach them to craft, some of parts does not allow you to select them again with mouse left or right click either. Some parts highlight themself and parrent part where they were attached, showing parrent part name in tooltip instead of part you hover mouse over.

Final tests and reasons behind it.

All of those parts are DMagic Orbital science addition to universal storage parts. Forgot to mention this in second post. All of them have "Univer. storage" prefix to their names.

Now, what I did. I installed only few mods in second instance of KSP game that serves just for this - discovering reasons of issues. I have made mod installs above clean vanilla game instalation.

Once I have opened SPH, I could not found those problematic parts. I have checked main game to see what I have of mods installed and add missing ones to test KSP game folder.

Before I forgot to mention, besides DMagic Orbital science, I have manualy instaled FAR and Modular flight integrator. Rest of mods are installed trough CKAN.

I have added one by one, SCANsat, SETIctt, KIS, KAX and their dependencies. I could not reproduce that bug, and I could not find those problematic parts in SPH either.

Finally, I have found necessary mod for those parts to appear: Universal storage. I have installed this and problematic parts have apeared in SPH, although with different mesh/icons.

I was confused slightly, but tested them anyway. There was no problem with them in SPH editor. I have made several flight tests too, no problem at all with them.

OK, there must be something else in my main game folder that was causing issues. First, those parts can't work without universal storage mod.

I checked CKAN. Universal storage mode is not shown as installed in my main game. Something fishy is going on here.

How those could apear in SPH if Universal storage mod is not installed and it is required to be, for those parts to be available in SPH editor ?

Finally, figured out what was happen. Previously, I was installed Universal storage mod trough CKAN. Played game for a while, checked out memory usage and eventualy I have uninstalled it trough CKAN because all needed from that mod is that small 1.25m service bay. Rest of cargo bays are more/less covered trough stock parts or other mods. To be clear, it is not that I didn't like universal storage, but due to all kind of memory issues I have remove it to make some RAM space for other nice mods around.

Later on I have installed DMagic Orbital science mod. I was thinking that all was fine.

Now, chasing down reasons for issues encountered, I double checked my main game gamedata folder. There was Universal storage folder inside. Not a full mod, but some XML config file was there.

That thing was confused Orbital science mod, thinking that Universal storage mod was installed, parts are displayed in SPH while those should not be, because Universal storage mod is not complete in folder.

When I was deleted that folder, problematic parts were no longer available in SPH. Installed again Universal storage mod, those behave normaly in SPH, checked them in flight, no longer issue with camera after 2-3 minutes of flight.

Don't ask, I have no clue why that incomplete install cause issues only with camera, I was expecting some kind of CTD earlier, not that wierd camera behaviour.

Anyway, lesson learned, whenever you remove some mod trough CKAN, double check that whole folder from that mod is deleted too, otherwise you will be chasing ghost bug for days.

Sorry for long post, but I was thinking that is necessary to explain everything in one place and help out people with similar issues how to help themselfs.

Edited February 1, 2016 by kcs123
links become broken on forum migration

[Yemo]

Aha, thank you very much for the detailed findings!

It also explains why I did not encounter it myself, since due to all my different installs I do not use CKAN (to not be confused) and install everything manually.

Dependencies usually check for the folders which are inside GameData (like "UniversalStorage" folder), like this does for the DMagic/UniversalStorage mystery goo:

@PART[dmUSGoo]:FOR[DMagic]:NEEDS[UniversalStorage]
{
    @TechRequired = basicRocketry
    @category = Science
}

This part even has an actual hard dependency on UniversalStorage (parent =):

MODEL
{
    model = DMagicOrbitalScience/UniversalStorage/USGooMat/US_Goo
    parent = UniversalStorage/Parts/US_1M110_Wedge_ScienceBay/model
    position = 0.0, 0.0, 0.0
    rotation = 0, 180, 0
}

I would not be surprised if this is the reason for the camara bug.

Thank you again for investigating.