[1.3.x] SETI, Unmanned before Manned [Patreon]

[Yemo]

iam delete Seti after contrac problems but no balance now unplayable

Wait, which SETI did you install?

SETI, (BalanceMod)

SETIctt

or SETIcontracts ?

[KOCMOKOT]

Sry guyz that was my fail.Now all its ok.Iam install SETI(all)and all works very good.Thank u for this mod.Iam new on Kerbal . Without this mods career with mods unplayable.

[Yemo]

Sry guyz that was my fail.Now all its ok.Iam install SETI(all)and all works very good.Thank u for this mod.Iam new on Kerbal . Without this mods career with mods unplayable.

No problem, just make sure you do not install the SETI BalanceMod, because it is for KSP 0.90.

Only

SETIcontracts

SETIctt

SETIgreenhouse

are for KSP 1.0.x.

[_Zee]

I m not at the pc containing the ksp install at the moment.

As far as I remember, the model rework requires the latest infernal robotics plugin version, this one: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/116064

Not sure about KSPAPIextensions, since I have not used mods with it for quite some time.

KSP-AVC is not required, but helps a lot for keeping track of updates.

Will continue with the bug search tomorrow.

As this seems to be above my level of understanding (I just used the contract configurator wiki to build the contracts), I recommend moving the issue over to the ContractConfigurator thread, where all the CC bugs are bundled and nightingale can take a look.

He asked for the logs of the problem, since I m not at the gaming pc at the moment, I plan to upload them tomorrow to the CC thread.

I'm confused on what your asking about on the Infernal Robotics point. I have both v0.21.2 of Infernal Robotics and v01b of the Model Rework & Expansion installed. I am using both and they are already the newest versions available?

Alright, thanks for moving the issue over to Nightingale's thread. Should I just keep an eye on his thread for info on this problem from here on?

[sherkaner]

So with 1.0.3 out, any goodies forthcoming?

Seems like the game is really "settling down" a bit. The 1.0.3 notes look really good, with a nice mix of critical bug-fixes and well-considered game-wide tuning that should stick. It seems like now the focus will be entirely on getting everything over to Unity 5, which I assume should be largely invisible to modders (perhaps aside from UI stuff)? Seems like it might be a better time for SETI now than 0.9/1.0.

Edited June 22, 2015 by sherkaner

[Yemo]

I'm confused on what your asking about on the Infernal Robotics point. I have both v0.21.2 of Infernal Robotics and v01b of the Model Rework & Expansion installed. I am using both and they are already the newest versions available?

Alright, thanks for moving the issue over to Nightingale's thread. Should I just keep an eye on his thread for info on this problem from here on?

Hm, I might have mixed up something.

I just uploaded a new log with the latest CC version. Will write here if there is progress in that direction.

With 1.0.3 out, hopefully a bit more active again.

So with 1.0.3 out, any goodies forthcoming?

Seems like the game is really "settling down" a bit. The 1.0.3 notes look really good, with a nice mix of critical bug-fixes and well-considered game-wide tuning that should stick. It seems like now the focus will be entirely on getting everything over to Unity 5, which I assume should be largely invisible to modders (perhaps aside from UI stuff)? Seems like it might be a better time for SETI now than 0.9/1.0.

Well, they stated that they were working on a PS4 version, which would explain the rushed release and the general change in attitude. Selling console copies is the priority.

The components are still very unbalanced, eg 1 kerbal Command Pod (Mk1) 0.8 tons, 3 kerbal Command Pod (Mk1-2) 4 tons...

Sorry but that is so out of proportion for such a long time now, that a 12 year old would find balancing issues of this magnitude. And that is only one example out of many.

Of course fixing that does not improve sales...

Given this trend, investing time into KSP just does not feel like before. So for myself, a fully modded KSP 0.90 on linux is still the standard in terms of gameplay.

I ll update SETIctt, SETIcontracts and SETIgreenhouse with this new 1.0.3, but really active development/participation from me seemed to have ended with Squads decision to prioritize money grabbing.

And looking in other places (eg twitch channels activity), I m not alone in that regard...

[sherkaner]

The components are still very unbalanced, eg 1 kerbal Command Pod (Mk1) 0.8 tons, 3 kerbal Command Pod (Mk1-2) 4 tons...

Sorry but that is so out of proportion for such a long time now, that a 12 year old would find balancing issues of this magnitude. And that is only one example out of many.

Of course fixing that does not improve sales...

Given this trend, investing time into KSP just does not feel like before. So for myself, a fully modded KSP 0.90 on linux is still the standard in terms of gameplay.

I ll update SETIctt, SETIcontracts and SETIgreenhouse with this new 1.0.3, but really active development/participation from me seemed to have ended with Squads decision to prioritize money grabbing.

Sorry to hear that you're losing motivation. I agree that there are still a lot of balance issues -- but to me that's exactly where SETI comes in!

Especially with the PS4 stuff going on, I wager that there will be an emphasis on stabilizing the fundamentals (and then perhaps adding features cautiously) -- so the kind of stuff that would significantly break SETI may be nearly at an end. Basically I've been kind of hoping that Squad would reach a point where they weren't throwing the game's structure around so much, just so mods like yours could be built up without getting broken. The PS4 move I think will incentivize that, and if Squad is to be believed, I think they'll still have full resources to bug fix and expand things.

But in any case I'd love to see you go all out on something like the old BalanceMod, but I'm definitely glad you'll at least keep up SETIctt/contracts/greenhouse.

[Nori]

Yeah, there is a lot of annoying balance issues and half baked features (tech tree, science glut, strategies (like seriously only 2-3 per focus?)). Thankfully we have ModuleManager and a good moddable base to "fix" stuff, but it is frustrating when some things are so out of whack.

Structural parts are one of the worst offenders IMHO. The "large" ibeam in quite heavy for what it is and the cubic strut thingy is incredibly light..

I usually do quite a bit of balancing parts before I start a game. The difficult part isn't stock as much as almost all mods base their balance at least partially on stock, thus making overall balancing hard.

Anyway, I'm cautiously optimistic that Squad isn't just making a PS4 money grab and that development won't suffer as a result.

[Yemo]

Well, seems we are at version 1.0.4 now...

Feels more BETA than ever.

Perhaps call the current version "Beta Forever - Release Quality Never"

Edited June 23, 2015 by Yemo

[Nori]

Well, seems we are at version 1.0.4 now...

Feels more BETA than ever.

Perhaps call the current version "Beta Forever - Release Quality Never"

heh, well 1.0,1.01,1.02 was really 0.91,0.92,0.93.

I haven't said this before, but I feel like them jumping from .25 to .90 to 1.0 is because of the PS4 deal. When they talked about getting 0.90 released it was pretty obvious that they wanted several beta releases before the full release. Yet they announce 1.0 after only one beta? Oh and 1.0 adds/changes more features than any other release? Really poor planning if you ask me. Maybe 1.04 should really be 1.0...

A wee bit frustrating. But I'm hoping that it will now be in a more "stable" state.

[Yemo]

heh, well 1.0,1.01,1.02 was really 0.91,0.92,0.93.

I haven't said this before, but I feel like them jumping from .25 to .90 to 1.0 is because of the PS4 deal. When they talked about getting 0.90 released it was pretty obvious that they wanted several beta releases before the full release. Yet they announce 1.0 after only one beta? Oh and 1.0 adds/changes more features than any other release? Really poor planning if you ask me. Maybe 1.04 should really be 1.0...

A wee bit frustrating. But I'm hoping that it will now be in a more "stable" state.

Yep, but that is the problem.

They are just not trustworthy anymore.

If they had called it 0.91-0.96 everything would be fine.

But they had to call it release for the money grab.

You can not trust their announcements anymore when they say a version is now intended to be stable. They said this for 1.0 by calling it release. And it became the most unstable basis ever...

Half the community warned them about rushing 1.0, they did not listen. They saw the quick money and went for it.

[captainradish]

Is there any mod that adds parts to Gigantic and Colossal rocketry? Those and Resource Exploitation are the only three parts of the techtree that don't unlock something for me.

[sherkaner]

Well, 1.0.4 was a true bugfix. Should they be more careful with this stuff? Probably, but I can't fault them too much for pushing a fix out quickly. The whole 1.0/1.0.1/1.0.2 thing was a different (uglier) beast, with them wildly pushing the balance of the game around without a lot of thought. But the extra time they spent on 1.0.3 seemed to be them stepping back and saying "okay, no more of that". For a stable base, what you really want is for the fundamentals of the game to not change -- pushing out bug-fix updates isn't anything but positive.

But I do understand your frustration. My own heavily modified tech tree mod lasted a single version before I said "nope, don't have the time to update this".

Any hope for a little update in the near future with some of the smaller items you've been talking about? I'm really eager to start a new career with the whole heavily-moddied SETI game, with the new 1.0.3 aero and such.

[nightingale]

Alright, thanks for moving the issue over to Nightingale's thread. Should I just keep an eye on his thread for info on this problem from here on?

Thanks for your patience on this one _Zee. Contract Configurator 1.5.0 is just release and should hopefully fix your issues... let me know if you see an improvement.

[Lord Aurelius]

@Yemo

Sad to hear that SETI Balance Mod for 1.0 is postponed indefinitely at this point, but I totally understand where you're coming from.

My hope is that in a few months after we get 1.1.x (I assume there will be at least a few hotfixes for an update of that magnitude) the game will be stable enough to make a full balance mod viable again. Even if you're not up to doing it, what you've done is demonstrated that there is a large group of players who desire such a mod so someone else can pick up the torch if necessary.

[Svm420]

@aurelius

I have thought of reviving the mod starting with pulling the 0.90 verion apart and using what we can and set that as the standard we balance by. I thought if it was setup no Github then people could help contribute patch and changes hopefully making it easier and faster. Right now though I am still on 1.02 till DRe gets updated as I can not trust squads balance for stuff they seem to have they no expertise in. I mean they basically tried to copy DRe because they had no idea what they were doing up till 1.02.

[Lord Aurelius]

@Svm420

I would be willing to help out with that (with Yemo's blessing) once things stabilize a bit. It sounds like Unity 5 is going to change a lot of things on the physics side so it doesn't make sense to me to put in a bunch of effort before that point.

If Yemo approves, a Github setup would be awesome and make it a lot easier for everyone to contribute and hopefully stave off modder burnout by distributing the workload. Yemo's done an amazing job with SETI, but given the circumstances I can totally understand why he's not terribly motivated to put a bunch more effort into this at this point.

[Yemo]

Is there any mod that adds parts to Gigantic and Colossal rocketry? Those and Resource Exploitation are the only three parts of the techtree that don't unlock something for me.

Sorry, not to my knowledge as of this moment.

Since those are vanilla CTT nodes, maybe someone over at the CTT thread knows about mods having parts for those nodes.

Well, 1.0.4 was a true bugfix. Should they be more careful with this stuff? Probably, but I can't fault them too much for pushing a fix out quickly. The whole 1.0/1.0.1/1.0.2 thing was a different (uglier) beast, with them wildly pushing the balance of the game around without a lot of thought. But the extra time they spent on 1.0.3 seemed to be them stepping back and saying "okay, no more of that". For a stable base, what you really want is for the fundamentals of the game to not change -- pushing out bug-fix updates isn't anything but positive.

But I do understand your frustration. My own heavily modified tech tree mod lasted a single version before I said "nope, don't have the time to update this".

Any hope for a little update in the near future with some of the smaller items you've been talking about? I'm really eager to start a new career with the whole heavily-moddied SETI game, with the new 1.0.3 aero and such.

Well, quite a few additions have accumulated for the next SETIctt version, so I ll need a little more time checking for them, especially since many mods use this opportunity for an update.

Thanks for your patience on this one _Zee. Contract Configurator 1.5.0 is just release and should hopefully fix your issues... let me know if you see an improvement.

Thank you very much. I only tested a little but at least for me it felt as if it considerably reduced the stutter.

Since I have no planned changes/additions for SETIcontracts at the moment, the 1.0.2 version should work fine.

I ll just update the version number as soon as _Zee confirms that the problem was fixed for him.

@Yemo

Sad to hear that SETI Balance Mod for 1.0 is postponed indefinitely at this point, but I totally understand where you're coming from.

My hope is that in a few months after we get 1.1.x (I assume there will be at least a few hotfixes for an update of that magnitude) the game will be stable enough to make a full balance mod viable again. Even if you're not up to doing it, what you've done is demonstrated that there is a large group of players who desire such a mod so someone else can pick up the torch if necessary.

@aurelius

I have thought of reviving the mod starting with pulling the 0.90 verion apart and using what we can and set that as the standard we balance by. I thought if it was setup no Github then people could help contribute patch and changes hopefully making it easier and faster. Right now though I am still on 1.02 till DRe gets updated as I can not trust squads balance for stuff they seem to have they no expertise in. I mean they basically tried to copy DRe because they had no idea what they were doing up till 1.02.

@Svm420

I would be willing to help out with that (with Yemo's blessing) once things stabilize a bit. It sounds like Unity 5 is going to change a lot of things on the physics side so it doesn't make sense to me to put in a bunch of effort before that point.

If Yemo approves, a Github setup would be awesome and make it a lot easier for everyone to contribute and hopefully stave off modder burnout by distributing the workload. Yemo's done an amazing job with SETI, but given the circumstances I can totally understand why he's not terribly motivated to put a bunch more effort into this at this point.

Well, the old scope of the SETI BalanceMod is postponed. I agree with Lord Aurelius that major effort before Unity 5 does not sound time efficient. Perhaps the PS4 version will provide some stability for the PC version as well.

That said, the Github possibility sounds interesting as well, though I m not sure about the effort needed for that in terms of publishing new versions and keeping it together, with the split of BalanceMod and TechTree.

I will take a look at Github in the near future (next weekend at the earliest) and think about possible structures and the maintenance effort which comes with them.

So this is the current plan:

SETIgreenhouse - update to 1.0.4 right now, with bug fix

SETIcontracts - no-changes 1.0.4 version release as soon as the stutter issue is confirmed by _Zee and/or others to be dealt with

SETI (BalanceMod) - wrap up 0.90 version together with SETIcontracts, just as a final point (has 50k downloads, would fit nicely)

SETIctt - 1.0.4 version before the weekend, finally adressing AntennaRange, the contributions by theonegalen, and quite a lot of other stuff which accumulated during the dev pause

After that, the possible/announced split/reboot of SETIctt and SETI BalanceMod, maybe using the proposed Github development tool.

SETI-Greenhouse 0.9.2 for KSP 1.0.4

Fixes

• Water output only provides 90% of one kerbals water, as intended
  

- - - Updated - - -

I also add this to the OP to clarify the installation:

Edited June 24, 2015 by Yemo

[Yemo]

Contract Pack: InitialContracts 1.0.4 for KSP 1.0.4

Adjustments

• Average number of available contracts increased to 16 (from the default 10)
  

Since the Initial Contracts were not affected by the problems with SETIcontracts, I just updated them to 1.0.4.

Like the SETIcontracts, they now increase the number of available contracts, but to 16 instead of 20 for SETIcontracts.

I m considering changing this number to 16 for SETIcontracts as well, to prevent scrolling in the most widely used resolution (1080p).

[Yemo]

SETI-Contracts v0.9.2 for KSP 1.0.4

Adjustments

• AverageAvailableContracts set to 16 instead of 20 (prevents scrolling for 1080p)
  
• If CustomBarnKit or ActionGroupsExtended is installed, action groups are available from the start
  

If the issue reported by _Zee was not fixed by the CC update, I will revisit this.

edit: Wow, KSP forum activity has really slowed down during the last month or so...

Edited June 26, 2015 by Yemo

[Lord Aurelius]

The slow forum is likely a combination of the novelty of the whole 1.0 thing wearing off and a lot of people being on summer vacation now.

For me personally, I actually haven't been playing KSP much at all recently, I'm kind of burned out on the whole thing since 1.0 didn't do anything to bring stability to the game (and actually made it worse) so I'm hesitant to do much with it until things settle down. That and I have a large backlog of other games I can play in the meantime.

It's still interesting to keep an eye on the forums, but I've definitely been doing quite a bit more lurking and less posting since I'm not really invested in the game at the moment.

[sherkaner]

SETI-Contracts v0.9.2 for KSP 1.0.4

I know what I'm doing this weekend.

Are you expecting any necessary revisions to the SETI CTT for 1.0.4? I wouldn't necessarily expect so, but maybe some of the aero rebalancing changes tweaks you've made?

Edited June 26, 2015 by sherkaner

[Yemo]

The slow forum is likely a combination of the novelty of the whole 1.0 thing wearing off and a lot of people being on summer vacation now.

For me personally, I actually haven't been playing KSP much at all recently, I'm kind of burned out on the whole thing since 1.0 didn't do anything to bring stability to the game (and actually made it worse) so I'm hesitant to do much with it until things settle down. That and I have a large backlog of other games I can play in the meantime.

It's still interesting to keep an eye on the forums, but I've definitely been doing quite a bit more lurking and less posting since I'm not really invested in the game at the moment.

Makes sense, there seems to be a general slow down of activity concerning KSP, from forums to twitch.

I know what I'm doing this weekend.

Are you expecting any necessary revisions to the SETI CTT for 1.0.4? I wouldn't necessarily expect so, but maybe some of the aero rebalancing changes tweaks you've made?

It does not seem to need any, but there will be a big update. It was planned for today, but I need another day.

Though if you do not use the CustomBarnKit, most changes/additions are in the mid to late tree.

With CustomBarnKit installed, you will eg have action groups from the start.

[sherkaner]

It does not seem to need any, but there will be a big update. It was planned for today, but I need another day.

Though if you do not use the CustomBarnKit, most changes/additions are in the mid to late tree.

With CustomBarnKit installed, you will eg have action groups from the start.

Oh nice, sounds worth waiting for.

[Yemo]

Oh nice, sounds worth waiting for.

No need to wait, most stuff is in the mid game.

With ActionGroupsExtended, you start with the career overwrite with the current SETIctt.

Those are the plans, excluding the additional mod support, on which I ll have to work until tomorrow:

**TechTree changes**

* Aerodynamics branch rearranged, more interdependencies

* New node "Wide-Body Aerodynamics"

* Big-S parts earlier @subsonicFlight

* Structural Pylon earlier @aviation

**Progression Rebalancing**

* If the CustomBarnKit is installed, Action Groups are unlocked from the start

* Kerbals have fixed hiring costs

* Active contracts limit increased to 3 and 9

**Science Rebalancing**

* Radial MaterialsBay, using the MysteryGoo pod (can anyone provide different textures?)

* Scientist stars do not boost experiment returns, they can still clean out experiments

* Mobile Processing Lab rebalanced to be close to old mechanic

* Main purpose is, to boost transmission value for non 100% experiments

* Eg MysteryGoo and MaterialsBay should give 90% transmission value with MPL

* No scientist star, surface or other fantasy boni

* If you want to conduct lab experiments in space, use StationScience

**Minor Changes & Fixes**

* MysteryGoo mass fixed

* US Magnetometer @Engineering101

* MM statement to add telemetry report should be inactive if StockScienceTweaks is installed