[1.3.x] SETI, Unmanned before Manned [Patreon]

[Olsson]

Hm, the SpaceTux contracts seem to offer their own massive progression structure.

If you want to use those I recommend only using the InitialContracts and not the SETIcontracts.

Due to squads agency system, removing contract packs or anything which adds agencies is a bad idea (which SETIcontracts does).

If you want to keep your savegame, you could try to delete the SETIcontracts folder and then make a new config somewhere, including this:

AGENT
{
  name = Space Exploration & Technology Initiative

  description = NA

  logoURL = Squad/Agencies/KerbinWorldFirstRecordKeepingSociety
  logoScaledURL = Squad/Agencies/KerbinWorldFirstRecordKeepingSociety_scaled

  mentality = Record
  mentality = Kerbalminded
}

But please make a backup of your save, I m not too familiar with that.

It might be easier to start a new career without SETIcontracts.

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Essentially I do not know how SETIcontracts works together with SpaceTux.

I can start a new one, it's no problem I just want to have the right contractpacks to start with.

I'm not sure what the difference is between SETIcontracts and InitialContracts?

What about the other contractpacks such as the Anomaly one?

[hbkmog]

Hello again one quick question. Do you have any recommendation on the near future technology or interstellar mod? Some parts of near future technology are no longer supported. Do those get reflected in the tech tree? Or do you have have any recommendation to use them or not, or which one to use?

Edited May 16, 2015 by hbkmog

[Yemo]

I can start a new one, it's no problem I just want to have the right contractpacks to start with.

I'm not sure what the difference is between SETIcontracts and InitialContracts?

What about the other contractpacks such as the Anomaly one?

SETIcontracts contains all the missions from the progression chart in the OP until the red line.

It also adds its own agency and deactivates the "record" (the automatic ones), "worldfirst" (launch first vessel and so on) and "explorebody" (non-declineable) stock contracts.

So it is its own progression system. It works well with non-general-progression contract packs (eg remoteTech, anomaly and so on).

InitialContracts contains only the first 3 unmanned contracts from the SETIcontracts pack (but those can be completed with manned vessels as well).

It does not add an agency and only deactivates the "record" and "worldfirst" stock contracts.

So it is the light version just meddling with the start of the career. It thus should also work well with contract packs for the progression after reaching orbit (eg something like SpaceTux).

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Hello again one quick question. Do you have any recommendation on the near future technology or interstellar mod? Some parts of near future technology are no longer supported. Do those get reflected in the tech tree? Or do you have have any recommendation to use them or not, or which one to use?

Hey, it has been some time since I tried NearFuture, but when I last did, it seemed like NearFuture was the simpler one and KSPI extended was the complex one.

In terms of tech tree placement, I did not change anything concerning either of them so far, as their parts are usually late game tech and my scope is primarily the early to mid game progression.

edit: Personally, I usually like maxMods games and prefer complexity if I have to choose (which you dont, KSPI extended has special configs to integrate with NearFuture). Though at the moment I enjoy the simple gameplay (until I can bring the maxMods gameplay into shape again).

Edited May 16, 2015 by Yemo

[Olsson]

SETIcontracts contains all the missions from the progression chart in the OP until the red line.

It also adds its own agency and deactivates the "record" (the automatic ones), "worldfirst" (launch first vessel and so on) and "explorebody" (non-declineable) stock contracts.

So it is its own progression system. It works well with non-general-progression contract packs (eg remoteTech, anomaly and so on).

InitialContracts contains only the first 3 unmanned contracts from the SETIcontracts pack (but those can be completed with manned vessels as well).

It does not add an agency and only deactivates the "record" and "worldfirst" stock contracts.

So it is the light version just meddling with the start of the career. It thus should also work well with contract packs for the progression after reaching orbit (eg something like SpaceTux).

- - - Updated - - -

Hey, it has been some time since I tried NearFuture, but when I last did, it seemed like NearFuture was the simpler one and KSPI extended was the complex one.

In terms of tech tree placement, I did not change anything concerning either of them so far, as their parts are usually late game tech and my scope is primarily the early to mid game progression.

edit: Personally, I usually like maxMods games and prefer complexity if I have to choose (which you dont, KSPI extended has special configs to integrate with NearFuture). Though at the moment I enjoy the simple gameplay (until I can bring the maxMods gameplay into shape again).

Started a new career, using only SETIctt, SETIcontracts and inside Contractpacks is AnomalySurveyor and Spacetux.

After getting into space, getting past 18km manned and achieving orbit I still have not gotten orbit + recovery.

[Yemo]

Started a new career, using only SETIctt, SETIcontracts and inside Contractpacks is AnomalySurveyor and Spacetux.

After getting into space, getting past 18km manned and achieving orbit I still have not gotten orbit + recovery.

And you declined other contracts (1star/2star/3star) ones?

Hm, as I said, I m not sure what SpaceTux does, as it seems to provide its own progression system.

But since I did not find a contract named the same as the orbitRecovery one from SETI and SETIcontracts uses its progression variable system to track progress and there is the failsafe, I m really not sure where the issue comes from.

I ll try to find out, though I can not promise success.

[Yemo]

I can not reproduce this. I installed SETIctt, Anomaly and SpaceTux, gave me some science and funds, accepted 18kmUnmanned, ReachSpace and 18kmManned and launched a manned vessel into orbit. While in Orbit I went back to the space center and accepted the orbitUnmanned contract. Then went back to the vessel to check and while it was doing the 40min countdown I again went back to the space center, declined one 2-star contract and the Orbit&Recovery one appeared (due to the failsafe requirement which only needs a vessel to be in orbit, not to complete any of the previous contracts)..

[Olsson]

And you declined other contracts (1star/2star/3star) ones?

Hm, as I said, I m not sure what SpaceTux does, as it seems to provide its own progression system.

But since I did not find a contract named the same as the orbitRecovery one from SETI and SETIcontracts uses its progression variable system to track progress and there is the failsafe, I m really not sure where the issue comes from.

I ll try to find out, though I can not promise success.

Tried again with only SETIctt and SETIcontracts. Still not getting orbit + recovery after acheiving orbit and manned flight 18km.

Is orbit + recovery locked behind some sort of prestige or tech requirement?

And yes I've declined over 30 2-star contracts and nothing appeared.

[kcs123]

Silly question, but do you have enough reputation for contract requirement ?

[Olsson]

Silly question, but do you have enough reputation for contract requirement ?

I cant be sure. I mean I did a bunch of various contracts hoping it would eventually show up, but it never did.

But my prestige still mightve not been high enough, not sure how high it is supposed to be either or if any tech requirements are unmet.

[Yemo]

Tried again with only SETIctt and SETIcontracts. Still not getting orbit + recovery after acheiving orbit and manned flight 18km.

Is orbit + recovery locked behind some sort of prestige or tech requirement?

And yes I've declined over 30 2-star contracts and nothing appeared.

It basically has only 2 requirements.

1. Significant prestige, so if any 2star contract shows up, this should show up as well

2. Orbit, if any of your vessels reached orbit, it should show up

You do not even have to complete any previous contract, just prestige + one vessel achieved orbit.

You might be able to just accept the first few contracts and then bring a probe core into orbit using hyperedit and then you should get the Orbit+Recovery contract offered.

But I can not test this, since hyperedit does not work for me.

Otherwise I do not know what to do next except for a new setup of the whole game, if a download was corrupted.

Maybe just stock + ContractConfiguratr + ModuleManager + SETIcontracts

And then hyperedit your vessel into orbit, after accepting the starting contracts.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Yemo

[Olsson]

It basically has only 2 requirements.

1. Significant prestige, so if any 2star contract shows up, this should show up as well

2. Orbit, if any of your vessels reached orbit, it should show up

You do not even have to complete any previous contract, just prestige + one vessel achieved orbit.

You might be able to just accept the first few contracts and then bring a probe core into orbit using hyperedit and then you should get the Orbit+Recovery contract offered.

But I can not test this, since hyperedit does not work for me.

Otherwise I do not know what to do next except for a new setup of the whole game, if a download was corrupted.

Maybe just stock + ContractConfiguratr + ModuleManager + SETIcontracts

And then hyperedit your vessel into orbit, after accepting the starting contracts.

Yeah now I got it to work using just stock and the other ones you mentioned.

I'm going to re-add the mods that I had earlier and then restart.

Will return if I get it to work with my other mods or if I find what the problem is.

EDIT: After much testing, I have noted that Orbit + Recovery is a 3 star contract and it requires some reputation before you receive it. That was the problem all along... hehe

Edited May 17, 2015 by Olsson

[Yemo]

Yeah now I got it to work using just stock and the other ones you mentioned.

I'm going to re-add the mods that I had earlier and then restart.

Will return if I get it to work with my other mods or if I find what the problem is.

EDIT: After much testing, I have noted that Orbit + Recovery is a 3 star contract and it requires some reputation before you receive it. That was the problem all along... hehe

Argh!

I m very sorry about that.

I now remember changing the prestige requirements back down again for several contracts, but it seems I forgot to release the update for SETIcontracts!

Thats why it is "significant" in my folder, when I checked yesterday, I totally forgot about it with all the other 1.0.x stuff going on.

I will release an update for SETIcontracts later today, finally including some more contracts as well.

To make up for the wasted time due to my error, if you have a special mod integration wish for SETIctt, please tell me.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Yemo

[Olsson]

Argh!

I m very sorry about that.

I now remember changing the prestige requirements back down again for several contracts, but it seems I forgot to release the update for SETIcontracts!

Thats why it is "significant" in my folder, when I checked yesterday, I totally forgot about it with all the other 1.0.x stuff going on.

I will release an update for SETIcontracts later today, finally including some more contracts as well.

To make up for the wasted time due to my error, if you have a special mod integration wish for SETIctt, please tell me.

Dude, you do not owe me anything. If anything I owe you for offering this mod to improve my gameplay experience.

[SwGustav]

Why is mystery goo so large? I'd love if it were tiny like in stock, considering science junior is small now. Also, there is no use for antennas without remote tech.

[Yemo]

Dude, you do not owe me anything. If anything I owe you for offering this mod to improve my gameplay experience.

Well, I m always open to mod support suggestions anyway, so it is not a large stretch for me ;-). Also for the SETIctt I m only shuffling the parts around the tech nodes.

It is more like shifting the priority for mod support, not adding to it ;-).

Why is mystery goo so large? I'd love if it were tiny like in stock, considering science junior is small now. Also, there is no use for antennas without remote tech.

Mystery goo and science jr have the same mass again, as in the old SETI-BalanceMod, though now only 80kg to be more viable for probes.

It just felt right to give them similar volumes as well now, it was very disproportionate in the old balancemod.

I just made sure that 2 mysteries still fit into a 1.25m cargo bay.

Considering the dishes have the same functionality in stock as the antenna, I felt that they were for show anyway...

But I m planning on supporting AntennaRange in one of the next SETIctt versions, which I consider something of a bug/design fix mod for stock...

It would fit very well into a non-complex mod setup together with USI LifeSupport.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and looking at the contracts again, I decided to take this opportunity to revisit the whole rewards/advances/mission objectives approach.

In addition to the 6 new contracts, which I planned to implement since before 1.0.2. 5 unmanned ones and the manned Duna landing.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Yemo

[Olsson]

Considering the dishes have the same functionality in stock as the antenna, I felt that they were for show anyway...

But I m planning on supporting AntennaRange in one of the next SETIctt versions, which I consider something of a bug/design fix mod for stock...

It would fit very well into a non-complex mod setup together with USI LifeSupport.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and looking at the contracts again, I decided to take this opportunity to revisit the whole rewards/advances/mission objectives approach.

In addition to the 6 new contracts, which I planned to implement since before 1.0.2. 5 unmanned ones and the manned Duna landing.

Glad to hear the news about the contracts, more progression contracts always make it more fun to play!

At the moment I'm using AntennaRange as I'm not a fan of the realistic aim mods such as TACLS, FAR and RemoteTech.

If you would add AntennaRange that would be awesome!

Also as a substitute for TACLS I want to use USI Life Support instead as it's more simplified. But I'm turned off by the immunity of orange suit kerbals, so I'm investigating if there's anyway to turn this immunity off.

EDIT: Also I forgot to add. So how does KSP calculate if you have enough prestige for 3 star contracts? Are you supposed to hit a set amount of prestige or are you supposed to just have X amount of prestige for the contract to unlock? If so then that means I shouldn't spend any points until I unlock 3 star contracts?

Edited May 17, 2015 by Olsson

[Yemo]

Glad to hear the news about the contracts, more progression contracts always make it more fun to play!

At the moment I'm using AntennaRange as I'm not a fan of the realistic aim mods such as TACLS, FAR and RemoteTech.

If you would add AntennaRange that would be awesome!

Also as a substitute for TACLS I want to use USI Life Support instead as it's more simplified. But I'm turned off by the immunity of orange suit kerbals, so I'm investigating if there's anyway to turn this immunity off.

EDIT: Also I forgot to add. So how does KSP calculate if you have enough prestige for 3 star contracts? Are you supposed to hit a set amount of prestige or are you supposed to just have X amount of prestige for the contract to unlock? If so then that means I shouldn't spend any points until I unlock 3 star contracts?

How does antenna range work with SETIctt at the moment?

Because I shifted the dish back beyond the 90 science building upgrade (which makes perfect sense for RemoteTech, but could be a problem for Antenna Range).

I m guessing Antenna Range currently does not know how to handle the inbuilt probe core antennas?

Not sure how to turn the immunity off.

But since USI Life Support is not relevant for the early missions inside Kerbin Sphere of Influence (15 day limit), you could just restrict the orange suits to the early kerbin soi missions.

It is a threshold, no reputation is deducted except for failing contracts, as far as I know.

[kcs123]

KAX and Firespitter(parts) are updated recently, both contains good parts for early avionics - propeler engines instead of jets, etc.

Althoughs both mods brings new set of parts that eats up some memory. With kraken memory leaking still present in game, someone will propbably use just one of those part package.

Until B9 aerodynamic is updated, Aviation Lights is good alternative for small lighhts needed for rovers and cargo bay ilumination needs.

KW Rocketry is also one of old favorites, but like B9 aerodynamic it is not updated and stock parts offers good replacements, both part packs will consume some time until you balance those trough tree and there is alternative for those parts trough stock parts. If you want to add those, put it last on your to to list, at least until both mods are officialy updated.

But there is AJE (advanced jet engines) mod that also brings some more engines that could be interesting to add on SETIctt.

Take your time with any of your choices, some more time will be needed to detect all bugs with both, stock KSP and what mods is safe to use one with other.

[Snafu225]

...

KW Rocketry is also one of old favorites, but like B9 aerodynamic it is not updated

...

KW Rocketry is actally updated now.

[sherkaner]

I m guessing Antenna Range currently does not know how to handle the inbuilt probe core antennas?

Probe cores have built-in antennas? That certainly would be nice if you're using Antenna Range to require an antenna to maintain control over a probe. But no, from what I can tell Antenna Range only messes with the function of the 3 stock antenna parts.

[kcs123]

@Snafu225, thanks, good to know that KW is updated, certainly worth to try once memory leaks is ironed out.

I think that should be no problem with Antenna range. It mess only stock antenna parts, applying range limits to each. SETIctt only integrate one stock antena inside probe core, so it should have same range limit as Antenna range gives built in antennas. Pretty much same way as MechJeb and Kerbal Engineer are integrated whitin other command cores trough mods.

MechJeb and KE is pretty much mandatory mod for creating maneuver nodes in space, calculating dV and such thing. I don't use autopilot feature so much because MechJeb does not handle planes with FAR good enough. I found adding extra parts to each craft somehow tedious and also people that don't use MJ or KE at all can try my craft files without problems.

Same thing is with built in antennas in probe cores, less tedious that way, but as addition to make things more interesting and vanilla antenna less obsolete, when you use Antenna range mod, built in antennas could have slightly less range. If I recall properly, first stick a like antenna available have range limit up to Ap for 160 km. Built in antennas could have slightly cripled range, like 120 km or so.

Good enough for low orbit, but for distant space travels you need to put better one.

[sherkaner]

Same thing is with built in antennas in probe cores, less tedious that way, but as addition to make things more interesting and vanilla antenna less obsolete, when you use Antenna range mod, built in antennas could have slightly less range. If I recall properly, first stick a like antenna available have range limit up to Ap for 160 km. Built in antennas could have slightly cripled range, like 120 km or so.

Good enough for low orbit, but for distant space travels you need to put better one.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. The built-in antennas could be good enough for basically ballistic test rockets and such at the beginning, so players don't have to screw with add-on antennas. But if you want to get into unmanned orbital probes, you'd need the whip antenna at least... and probably start thinking about tracking stations (if you turn line-of-sight on).

[Yemo]

KAX and Firespitter(parts) are updated recently, both contains good parts for early avionics - propeler engines instead of jets, etc.

Althoughs both mods brings new set of parts that eats up some memory. With kraken memory leaking still present in game, someone will propbably use just one of those part package.

Until B9 aerodynamic is updated, Aviation Lights is good alternative for small lighhts needed for rovers and cargo bay ilumination needs.

KW Rocketry is also one of old favorites, but like B9 aerodynamic it is not updated and stock parts offers good replacements, both part packs will consume some time until you balance those trough tree and there is alternative for those parts trough stock parts. If you want to add those, put it last on your to to list, at least until both mods are officialy updated.

But there is AJE (advanced jet engines) mod that also brings some more engines that could be interesting to add on SETIctt.

Take your time with any of your choices, some more time will be needed to detect all bugs with both, stock KSP and what mods is safe to use one with other.

The KAX 2-bladed prop was adjusted for in the last SETIctt update (just noticed it before I wanted to release the update and inlcuded it).

Since KAX is alread in, Firespitter is a low priority.

Do you know if Aviation Lights finally made the color adjustable instead of offering 10 different parts? That was my biggest issue with it. At the moment I use the small ligth from StationPartsExpansion.

KW is definately on my list, though I want to wait a little for a shakedown, there seem to be some heat imbalances.

AJE looks very nice, though very complex.

Probe cores have built-in antennas? That certainly would be nice if you're using Antenna Range to require an antenna to maintain control over a probe. But no, from what I can tell Antenna Range only messes with the function of the 3 stock antenna parts.

Since the inbuilt antenna was mainly intended for RemoteTech and has a 160km range there (enough to leave atmo), I want to set it to the same range with AntennaRange.

A nuisance removal for launches.

SETI-Contracts 0.9.0

Adjustments

• Doubled number of offered contracts
  
• Prestige requirements lowered for Orbit+Recovery and other contracts
  
• Totally reworked objectives, rewards and advances, mainly for unmanned missions
  

6 New Progression Contracts (finally)

• Asteroid Landing (grabbing)
  
• Moho Landing
  
• Jool Atmosphere
  
• Joolean Tour
  
• Laythe Landing
  
• Manned Duna Landing
  

[SwGustav]

• Totally reworked objectives, rewards and advances, mainly for unmanned missions

Will this break existing contracts? I currently have orbit+recovery accepted and munar flyby too I think

[Yemo]

Will this break existing contracts? I currently have orbit+recovery accepted and munar flyby too I think

It should only affect newly offered contracts.

The progression tracking was not altered, so it should integrate seamlessly into existing campaigns.