[1.9-1.10] Throttle Controlled Avionics

[allista]

2 minutes ago, Denko666 said:

Hey @allista while looking at what made KSP crash this time. I found this:

[WRN 18:20:23.435] File '/home/steam/.local/share/Steam/steamapps/common/Kerbal Space Program/GameData/ThrottleControlledAvionics/Plugins/../Throt
tleControlledAvionics.user' does not exist
[LOG 18:20:23.435] [ThrottleControlledAvionics: 18:20:23.435] Unable to read /home/steam/.local/share/Steam/steamapps/common/Kerbal Space Program/
GameData/ThrottleControlledAvionics/Plugins/../ThrottleControlledAvionics.user

It's probably not what caused the crash. But regardless: do you know how to solve this?

Cheers!

This is totally harmless.

Each time TCA re/loads its global settings it searches for a file with user's overrides. As you didn't create one, the search is failed, producing this message.

[Denko666]

oh ok,.. so safe to ignore. Thx!

[Lvdovicvs]

20 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

I'm not looking for, I just described what Lvdovicvs probably meant as I hope to make on my own with kOS.

Thnx for the very in-depth explanation.

 

Also very curious to try your kOS script when done. PM me please when you have it finished

Edited September 13, 2016 by Lvdovicvs

[Denko666]

hey Alista!

Here again to bug you about log entries that relate to TCA:

[ERR 21:35:39.895] Module ModuleRTAntenna threw during OnStart: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an objec
t
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.ModuleTCA.AllTCA (IShipconstruct ship) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.ModuleTCA.updateCFG () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.ModuleTCA.init () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.ModuleTCA.onVesselModify (.Vessel vsl) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at EventData`1[Vessel].Fire (.Vessel data) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RemoteTech.Modules.ModuleRTAntenna.AddTransmitter () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RemoteTech.Modules.ModuleRTAntenna.SetState (Boolean state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RemoteTech.Modules.ModuleRTAntenna.OnStart (StartState state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Part.ModulesOnStart () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

[LOG 21:35:39.896] RemoteTech: ModuleRTDataTransmitter::OnLoad
[LOG 21:35:39.896] RemoteTech: ModuleRTAntenna: Find TRANSMITTER success.
[LOG 21:35:39.896] RemoteTech: ModuleRTAntenna: Add TRANSMITTER success.
[ERR 21:35:39.896] Module ModuleRTAntenna threw during OnStart: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an objec
t
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.ModuleTCA.AllTCA (IShipconstruct ship) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.ModuleTCA.updateCFG () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.ModuleTCA.init () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.ModuleTCA.onVesselModify (.Vessel vsl) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at EventData`1[Vessel].Fire (.Vessel data) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RemoteTech.Modules.ModuleRTAntenna.AddTransmitter () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RemoteTech.Modules.ModuleRTAntenna.SetState (Boolean state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RemoteTech.Modules.ModuleRTAntenna.OnStart (StartState state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Part.ModulesOnStart () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

Does this look familiar to you somehow?

It's in conjunction with RemoteTech, so it could just as well be something on their end.

[allista]

47 minutes ago, Denko666 said:

hey Alista!

Here again to bug you about log entries that relate to TCA:

[ERR 21:35:39.895] Module ModuleRTAntenna threw during OnStart: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an objec
t
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.ModuleTCA.AllTCA (IShipconstruct ship) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.ModuleTCA.updateCFG () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.ModuleTCA.init () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.ModuleTCA.onVesselModify (.Vessel vsl) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at EventData`1[Vessel].Fire (.Vessel data) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RemoteTech.Modules.ModuleRTAntenna.AddTransmitter () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RemoteTech.Modules.ModuleRTAntenna.SetState (Boolean state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RemoteTech.Modules.ModuleRTAntenna.OnStart (StartState state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Part.ModulesOnStart () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

[LOG 21:35:39.896] RemoteTech: ModuleRTDataTransmitter::OnLoad
[LOG 21:35:39.896] RemoteTech: ModuleRTAntenna: Find TRANSMITTER success.
[LOG 21:35:39.896] RemoteTech: ModuleRTAntenna: Add TRANSMITTER success.
[ERR 21:35:39.896] Module ModuleRTAntenna threw during OnStart: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an objec
t
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.ModuleTCA.AllTCA (IShipconstruct ship) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.ModuleTCA.updateCFG () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.ModuleTCA.init () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at ThrottleControlledAvionics.ModuleTCA.onVesselModify (.Vessel vsl) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at EventData`1[Vessel].Fire (.Vessel data) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RemoteTech.Modules.ModuleRTAntenna.AddTransmitter () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RemoteTech.Modules.ModuleRTAntenna.SetState (Boolean state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at RemoteTech.Modules.ModuleRTAntenna.OnStart (StartState state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Part.ModulesOnStart () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

Does this look familiar to you somehow?

It's in conjunction with RemoteTech, so it could just as well be something on their end.

Thanks for the report!

It looks to be on my end, I'll look into it.

[oniontrain]

Can we discuss craft here? My craft hovers fine as long as I don't go more than 10 meters off the ground. If I try to go any higher, the thrust engines go full throttle, and it immediately flips over and crashes. Is there a TCA setting I should be looking at or a build problem? Down pointing engine group is set to thrust, rear pointing engines are set to maneuver. VTOL Assist and Flight Stabilizer are on.

 

Edited September 18, 2016 by oniontrain

[kcs123]

A lot of VTOLs suffer from too high vertical speed, making them highly unstable in atmosphere. Instead of using full throtle use vertical speed limiter from TCA. Every VTOL with more than 10 m/s have high chance to become unstable and flip over. Depending on craft design, it might happen sooner.

If you accelerate verticaly too fast, not even autopilot can correct craft from fliping over.

[allista]

14 hours ago, oniontrain said:

Can we discuss craft here? My craft hovers fine as long as I don't go more than 10 meters off the ground. If I try to go any higher, the thrust engines go full throttle, and it immediately flips over and crashes. Is there a TCA setting I should be looking at or a build problem? Down pointing engine group is set to thrust, rear pointing engines are set to maneuver. VTOL Assist and Flight Stabilizer are on.

Yep, @kcs123 is absolutely right. Your craft has many lifting surfaces perpendicular to the vertical direction. Hence, when you start to go up/down, the huge drag they produce exerts such torque that vertical engines (which in that case have relatively small lever) can't counteract. Enable the aerodynamic overlay (F12 or F11, don't remember) and see what happens...

[volcanicshrimp]

I'm trying to make a jet powered VTOL (mk2 fuselage with 4 vertically pointed jet engines (I've tried whiplashes and rapiers) surface attached) to try out the very cool looking ballistic trajectory autopilot. The main problem with it so far is autopilot induced instability making it crash whenever TCA takes control of it. It seems to be overcompensating for some little wobble, then overcompensating for the overcompensation, etc, etc and crashing.

[allista]

1 minute ago, volcanicshrimp said:

I'm trying to make a jet powered VTOL (mk2 fuselage with 4 vertically pointed jet engines (I've tried whiplashes and rapiers) surface attached) to try out the very cool looking ballistic trajectory autopilot. The main problem with it so far is autopilot induced instability making it crash whenever TCA takes control of it. It seems to be overcompensating for some little wobble, then overcompensating for the overcompensation, etc, etc and crashing.

Do you mean the TCA's ballistic autopilot, or something else? Anyway, I doubt that an atmospheric jet VTOL is a suitable craft for ballistic trajectory; engines can't cope with aerodynamic forces on such speeds. That's why we have ballistic rockets, but no ballistic planes or helicopters  On an atmosphere-free planet/moon, though, you may use ballistic trajectories with anything that have enough thrust.

[volcanicshrimp]

Yes, I do mean TCA's ballistic autopilot and yes, I was trying to use it for a jet powered VTOL, as bad an idea as that is. My point was that the autopilot doesn't seem to work very well with the long response time of jet engines like the Rapier and the Whiplash when using them for steering.

Your comment about ballistic planes has given me an idea though... A ballistic dropship with quick response engines for landing and high-power hybrid engines for higher speed flight. I'd be surprised if I can make one capable of escaping the atmosphere, but it's something to try, and the idea of a dropship coming in vertically at high speed rather than cruising along slowly to its landing site seems pretty exciting.

[allista]

34 minutes ago, volcanicshrimp said:

Yes, I do mean TCA's ballistic autopilot and yes, I was trying to use it for a jet powered VTOL, as bad an idea as that is. My point was that the autopilot doesn't seem to work very well with the long response time of jet engines like the Rapier and the Whiplash when using them for steering.

Well I admit, I never tested ballistic jump with any kind of jets and in thick atmosphere (like Kerbin).

Does you craft otherwise (i mean hovering, maneuvering, flying...) performs as expected? Have you tried the VTOL Controls under "advanced"?

[volcanicshrimp]

The same thing happens with the autopilot hovering at 100m above the ground and stop mode active and the go to mode is unable to take off properly at all (seemingly due to the same issue). VTOL mode also seems to have the same problem.

My first prototype of that dropship I mentioned also has a similar issue but considering that's a mk 3 plane with 22 VTOL engines of 3 different types (and from 3 different mods) and barely lifts off in VTOL mode it's understandable that balancing it would be somewhat difficult.

Edited September 25, 2016 by volcanicshrimp

[allista]

47 minutes ago, volcanicshrimp said:

The same thing happens with the autopilot hovering at 100m above the ground and stop mode active and the go to mode is unable to take off properly at all (seemingly due to the same issue). VTOL mode also seems to have the same problem.

May I see the ship (screenshots), or if it's stock, could you share the .craft file?

[volcanicshrimp]

http://imgur.com/a/qlOHI (how do you embed albums in the new forums?)

The original had quiztech nosecones and interstellar fuel switch altered tanks. Replacing the nosecones and resetting the tanks to their original contents didn't fix the problem.

I have various mods, including FAR, however none affect engines to my knowledge.

EDIT: tested on a totally stock (apart from TCA, module manager and AT utils) install and the problem persists.

Edited September 25, 2016 by volcanicshrimp
further testing

[allista]

1 hour ago, volcanicshrimp said:

http://imgur.com/a/qlOHI (how do you embed albums in the new forums?)

The original had quiztech nosecones and interstellar fuel switch altered tanks. Replacing the nosecones and resetting the tanks to their original contents didn't fix the problem.

I have various mods, including FAR, however none affect engines to my knowledge.

EDIT: tested on a totally stock (apart from TCA, module manager and AT utils) install and the problem persists.

First of all, this craft should be susceptible to overwhelming aerodynamic forces, especially with FAR. Try enabling aerodynamic overlay (F12) and see what's happening. My guess is: as soon as you speed up to +10m/s any considerable attack angle of the fuselage should flip you over. The "Low Control Authority" is somewhat indicative of that.

Anyway, I'll try to reproduce the craft and the problem.

[Peter Balholm]

 

I am having some trouble. I have installed the latest version of TCA. I am intending to use it to steer a very heavy rocket with many, many clustered engines into orbit. However, I have not yet been able to bring up the orbit editor window. In fact, with the new version, I have not been able to bring up the main window in-flight. The window shows up (see picture) but has no contents and no controls. I can't change anything beyond the engine settings in the VAB. The only control is turning "advanced" on and off, but that seems to effect nothing.

In a possibly-related problem, even when auto-stage is turned off in the VAB, the rocket tries to launch immediately, before I tell it to.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[Denko666]

1 hour ago, Peter Balholm said:

 

I am having some trouble. I have installed the latest version of TCA. I am intending to use it to steer a very heavy rocket with many, many clustered engines into orbit. However, I have not yet been able to bring up the orbit editor window. In fact, with the new version, I have not been able to bring up the main window in-flight. The window shows up (see picture) but has no contents and no controls. I can't change anything beyond the engine settings in the VAB. The only control is turning "advanced" on and off, but that seems to effect nothing.

In a possibly-related problem, even when auto-stage is turned off in the VAB, the rocket tries to launch immediately, before I tell it to.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

Are you in a Sandbox game or Science or Career? In Science and Career mode, the TCA programs need to be unlocked through the techtree.

 

[Peter Balholm]

I am in sandbox. I have a lot of other mods installed, including RSS.

[allista]

2 hours ago, Peter Balholm said:

I am in sandbox. I have a lot of other mods installed, including RSS.

Then this looks like a bug. Could you please share the logs?

*in case, how to find them: https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacLifeSupport/wiki/Help

[volcanicshrimp]

19 hours ago, allista said:

this craft should be susceptible to overwhelming aerodynamic forces, especially with FAR

That is a possible cause of the problem, however it still loses control in the same manner if it's hovering stationary 50m above the ground (in stop mode) and I tap w (this was in a TAC+dependencies-only install) with my control input only accelerating it to 1-2 m/s.

[Peter Balholm]

Here is the output file. I have linked to it in GoogleDocs. I couldn't figure out any other way of sharing it. Pasting the contents it just crashed the browser every time. Too large?

https://drive.google.com/a/uw.edu/file/d/0ByFshSPbart8c2VTeHVobFZyRm8/view

[allista]

1 hour ago, volcanicshrimp said:

That is a possible cause of the problem, however it still loses control in the same manner if it's hovering stationary 50m above the ground (in stop mode) and I tap w (this was in a TAC+dependencies-only install) with my control input only accelerating it to 1-2 m/s.

Yep, I see what you mean. Reproduced it with the similar design. It seems the RAPIERs are too slow, much slower than conventional jets (which is incorrect: the original SABRE design should act as a rocket engine in stationary operation). Nevertheless, I'll try to correct the algorithm which tries to adapt to slow engines.

1 minute ago, Peter Balholm said:

Here is the output file. I have linked to it in GoogleDocs. I couldn't figure out any other way of sharing it. Pasting the contents it just crashed the browser every time. Too large?

https://drive.google.com/a/uw.edu/file/d/0ByFshSPbart8c2VTeHVobFZyRm8/view

Yea, they're usually several Mb of text long. So GDocs, DrobBox, PasteBin, etc. Only you forgot to give permissions to the file; I've requested them.

[Peter Balholm]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByFshSPbart8c2VTeHVobFZyRm8/view?usp=sharing

 

[allista]

1 hour ago, Peter Balholm said:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByFshSPbart8c2VTeHVobFZyRm8/view?usp=sharing

First of all, you're playing KSP-1.1.2 and are using an old version of TCA. I can't provide technical support (bugfixes, etc) for that version as the development went too far from that point.

Also, the log you provided indicates that KSP has crashed before it was fully loaded due to memory allocation error (insufficient memory). The log is overwritten on each game launch, so you need to reproduce the problem in the game, exit, and right after that share the log.