KXP: EVA instead of flag planting

[KerbMav]

Simple as that, instead of having every kerbonaut planting a flag to receive the extra XP from a landing, only require them to touch the ground with there bare ... boots. (EVA while landed on xyz)

[michaelsteele3]

It seems more realistic in my opinion for the flags instead of just touching them. But if we merged it, say we get science if a kerbal to touch the surface, AND if we want a bonus, plant a flag.

[prophet_01]

I would prefer eva aswell. What do you learn by planting a flag? The current game encourages me to do a landing with at least a scientist and a pilot, it also encourages me to plant 2 flags and I always remove one instantly to reduce the clutter. If the devs want to encourage multi crew missions they shouldn't make it more tedious than it already is by encouraging this kind of micro

[cicatrix]

This brings another question: just what exactly a pilot learns from walking on the surface of another planet? (same with an engineer)

[Wabbit]

I like flag planting. It is more symbolic, and besides- there are issues with just stepping on it. If you can't land, you can just EVA and die on impact, but you still touched it. You can also just come by on a close pass, skim it, and fly away with your SCIENCE!

[KerbMav]

I am not talking about science - and what good are the XP for the kerbonaut if he dies on impact?

[razark]

What do you learn by planting a flag?

You learn exactly how hard it is to plant a flag on a particular body. And Kerbal 1 obviously can't tell Kerbal 2 about it.

(From what I hear, Neil and Buzz didn't talk to each other the whole trip...)

EVA makes so much more sense than Flag Planting. It's not really any more effort. You just click a few more times, since you've already done the meaningful part by getting there.

[Robotengineer]

I support this suggestion. I hate the flag planting to get XP.

[Alshain]

What do you learn by planting a flag?

If you are Neil Armstrong or Buzz Aldrin you learn just how much thrust you get from a LM ascent stage.

[Pthigrivi]

I think the whole experience system is really not there yet. We've talked about this in a couple of other treads. Whats hard is intuitively I want working in a given field (flying for pilots, surface samples etc for scientists, fixing things for engineers) should be the thing that gains you experience in that field, but I cant think of a non-grindy way to do that. To me the most fair way would be for kerbals to level by exploration, ie; the more worlds they've seen, the more experience they get. As stated, getting them there is the real challenge. Getting out and planting a flag is trivial.

I think they're close, but in practice things dont work. He'res my best shot at a system, with three stars earning a level, and each task only earning a star the first time its completed. Kerbals should level up in-flight without having to return to KSC.

Level 0

Takeoff! > 1 Star

Land safely on Kerbin > 1 Star

Exit the atmosphere > 1 Star

Achieve Orbit > 1 Star

Achieve Munar Orbit > 1 Star

Land on the Mun > 1 Star

Achieve Minmus Orbit > 1 Star

Land on Minmus > 1 Star

Exit Kerbin SOI > 1 Star

*Doing all of these will have earned 3 Levels

Approach an Asteroid > 1 Star

Claw an Asteroid > 1 Star

Achieve Duna Orbit > 1 Star

Land on Duna > 1 Star

Land on Ike 1 Star

Achieve Eve Orbit > 1 Star

Land on Eve > 3 Stars

Land on Gilly > 1 Star

Achieve Moho Orbit > 2 Stars

Land on Moho > 1 Star

Achieve Dres Orbit > 1 Star

Land on Dres > 1 Star

Achieve Jool Orbit > 2 Stars

Land on Laythe > 2 Star

Land on Val > 1 Star

Land on Tylo > 3 Stars

Land on Pol > 1 Star

Land on Bop > 1 Star

Achieve Eeloo Orbit > 3 Stars

Land on Eeloo > 1 Star

This way you cant reach level 3 without leaving Kerbin SOI, and you have to have visited at either the Mun or Minmus and another planet to get to level 3. Level 4 requires visiting at least 3 worlds, and level 5 requires visiting 4. This would mean it would take landing a single kerbal on the Mun, Minmus, Duna, Ike, and Moho before getting to level 5. Alternatively they could claw an asteroid and visit each of the Joolian Moons, or land on the Mun, Duna, Ike, Eve and Gilly. This seems pretty fair.

[prophet_01]

@Pthigrivi, I like it. I wouldn't use a "star" system for this and stick to the bars we currently have. But the mechanic and balance seems reasonable and balanced. Looks like a step forward

The problem I see with doing role specific tasks is the balancing aspect. I'm afrait that it might result in the same grind fest although I like this idea aswell it would need a mechanic that prevents it from ending up like that. I also don't know what to do with engineers, how would you get exp if there is nothing to repair? Reak stuff un purpuse to get exp? That wouldn't be any better than the flag thing

[Pthigrivi]

Yeah maybe... I guess I was trying to think of a clear way to see how upgraded your kerbals are on their little in-flight monitor screen. I think it's fine if the upgrade dialog box is at the astronaut complex but Id love if this could happen while Kerbals are still in flight to make multi-planet missions more rewarding.

Let me update this based on the idea of using a skill tree: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/107243-Skill-Tree-for-Kerbals

This would mean a fully upgraded Kerbal would need 45 total stars. I like the idea that it would be in theory possible, so lets just distribute them across the Kerbol System so you'd need to visit every planet to do it.

Liftoff! - 1*

Landed on Kerbin - 1*

Escape the Atmosphere - 1*

Kerbin Orbit - 1*

Munar Orbit - 1*

Landed on the Mun - 2*

Minmus Orbit - 1*

Landed on Minmus - 1*

*If a Kerbal has done all of the above, they would have earned 3 levels. I think this still seems fair.

Kerbol Orbit - 1*

Visit an Asteroid - 1*

Claw an Asteroid - 1*

Duna Orbit - 1*

Landed on Duna - 2*

Landed on Ike - 1*

*Having completed everything in Kerbin SOI and Landing on Duna will earn 4 Levels, but not 5.

Dres Orbit - 1*

Landed on Dres - 2*

Moho Orbit - 2*

Landed on Moho - 1*

Eve Orbit - 1*

Landed on Eve - 4*

Landed on Gilly - 1*

Jool Orbit - 2*

Laythe Orbit - 1*

Landed on Laythe - 2*

Vall Orbit - 1*

Landed on Vall - 1*

Tylo Orbit - 1*

Landed on Tylo - 3*

Landed on Pol - 1*

Landed on Bop - 1*

*A Kerbal who's completed a Jool-5 will also have earned 5 levels. Given how hard this is I think this is also still fair.

Eeloo Orbit - 2*

Landed on Eeloo - 2*

Keep in mind probably most people will spread their levels somewhat, at least allowing a scientist to do basic SAS, An engineer to be able to take surface samples, etc.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Pthigrivi

[AbacusWizard]

"Experience" is really a euphemism for radiation. Some planets/moons give off more radiation than others; getting closer to a planet/moon gives you more radiation; planting a flag disturbs the surface and releases more radiation. The "experience" bar for each kerbal is really a counter of that kerbal's total lifetime radiation exposure.

...and, as everyone knows, radiation grants superpowers. Superpowers like the ability to repair rover wheels.

[Pthigrivi]

Another idea: instead of having to bring kerbals all the way back to Kerbin to level-up, you can also launch a large training module part. While Kerbals are inside, accumulated experience can be spent on skill advancements as if they were back on Kerbin. As things like ISRU and maybe life-support and greenhouses pop up down the road this could really dovetail nicely into off-world colonization.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Pthigrivi