STS-7/E Space Shuttle (Stock NASA Replica) Still Flies in KSP 1.4.3 - Re-enters Like the Real Thing!

[Rune]

Have you tried it with FAR? do you expect it to survive the aero update?

That's a good question. I don't think it should work with the new aero, it uses a double wing to get enough lift and hidden control surfaces on the nose. Then again, there will be new "bigger" wings (I expect them to have more lift per surface area, otherwise Mk3 design will look really dumb), also lift will scale with v^2, and drag will be reduced for low cross sections, so... who knows? Maybe it'll be a good supersonic glider, after all it is modelled on a good supersonic glider, and I don't know how part occlusion will work with parallel wings.

Rune. I prefer to wait and see... and I can't go for a whole month without building a SSTO, that too.

[Darth Lazarus]

working on my Shuttle:

[inigma]

working on my Shuttle:

http://i.imgur.com/OmZCEAy.jpg

Very awesome!

Want to share wing designs or combine efforts in developing an STS-5? I am actually seriously considering making the STS-5 wings the same as yours and opening up the STS project as a community project for future development. The trailing edge triangles in the STS-4 just never sat well with me. At the time, my shuttle wings were the best in class. Now I'm seeing these designs and wishing I had some time to devote to a new set... but still a bit antsy with 1.0 looming over our heads.

How are your glide tests coming?

Edited April 16, 2015 by inigma

[Darth Lazarus]

i will upload and share it later this day, currently not at my KSP-PC to access the file

[Majorjim!]

That's a good question. I don't think it should work with the new aero, it uses a double wing to get enough lift and hidden control surfaces on the nose. Then again, there will be new "bigger" wings (I expect them to have more lift per surface area, otherwise Mk3 design will look really dumb), also lift will scale with v^2, and drag will be reduced for low cross sections, so... who knows? Maybe it'll be a good supersonic glider, after all it is modelled on a good supersonic glider, and I don't know how part occlusion will work with parallel wings.

Rune. I prefer to wait and see... and I can't go for a whole month without building a SSTO, that too.

LOL I know the feeling. I am quietly optimistic about my Eagle-1 SSTO. Optimism based on absolutely nothing.

[inigma]

LOL I know the feeling. I am quietly optimistic about my Eagle-1 SSTO. Optimism based on absolutely nothing.

Based on a wing and a prayer...

[Rune]

Based on a wing and a prayer...

That's a good one!

Rune. Note: this wing is the first one I save as a subassembly.

[Araym]

Not to bother in any way Darth Lazarus, I tried to work on a subassembly to swap them on your shuttle...

Javascript is disabled. View full album

http://imgur.com/a/bYrh9#0

Download:

http://kerbalx.com/Araym/STS-5%20Wing%20Subassebly

... I made it after 12 hours on work, before going to bed.

IT'S NOT TESTED ON THE WHOLE SRBS + MAIN FUEL TANK

(I have no time now )

... but i'm positive on it... (Maybe it could need a couple of struts from wings forward end to main shuttle body, if they bend...)

Check eventually flaps and tail for pitch, roll, yaw setting (They should be already set, but I do not know if any could be changed)

(Wanna I the "Architect" title too??? Maybe... maybe... )

Edit-1: Wings are "double" like yours, the root part is the rectangular one with the wheels for the lower, and the same, without wheels, for the upper, if you wanna change slightly their position

Maybe they needs internal, clipped, struts if they move too much... (like I said, they are not flew yet, just designed on drawing board/VAB)

Edited April 16, 2015 by Araym

[inigma]

Not to bother in any way Darth Lazarus, I tried to work on a subassembly to swap them on your shuttle...

http://imgur.com/a/bYrh9

http://imgur.com/a/bYrh9#0

Download:

http://kerbalx.com/Araym/STS-5%20Wing%20Subassebly

... I made it after 12 hours on work, before going to bed.

IT'S NOT TESTED ON THE WHOLE SRBS + MAIN FUEL TANK

(I have no time now )

... but i'm positive on it... (Maybe it could need a couple of struts from wings forward end to main shuttle body, if they bend...)

Check eventually flaps and tail for pitch, roll, yaw setting (They should be already set, but I do not know if any could be changed)

(Wanna I the "Architect" title too??? Maybe... maybe... )

Edit-1: Wings are "double" like yours, the root part is the rectangular one with the wheels for the lower, and the same, without wheels, for the upper, if you wanna change slightly their position

Maybe they needs internal, clipped, struts if they move too much... (like I said, they are not flew yet, just designed on drawing board/VAB)

I'll see about testing this tonight if I can! I LOVE it! Worthy of an architect if I can verify it flies.

Btw, anyone who contributes to STS development will always get full credit!

[Darth Lazarus]

here the download for my shuttleprototpye

still missing OMS, adjustments for the SSME's and aft RCS, no gliding tests where done so far (lack of time) and the wings are only one layer (no double composite )

i will build my shuttle for a 20 to 30 tons payload ^^

-> click me for a shuttle <-

edit: to late i see

Edited April 17, 2015 by Darth Lazarus

[inigma]

here the download for my shuttleprototpye

still missing OMS, adjustments for the SSME's and aft RCS, no gliding tests where done so far (lack of time) and the wings are only one layer (no double composite )

i will build my shuttle for a 20 to 30 tons payload ^^

-> click me for a shuttle <-

edit: to late i see

I'll be testing both tonight! I'll let you know what modifications if any I'll add. Consider STS-5 as our first official community developed shuttle. I'll consider contributions as subcontracted development! Keep the ideas coming!

you too will be rewarded architect!

Edited April 17, 2015 by inigma

[inigma]

Update: ok so I tested both.

And both land like bricks. If you call lithobreaking at 100 m/s a brick like landing. With total disintegration. Current aero demands composite wings. So...

that's on my STS-5 to-do list unless you guys want to work on your wings as composites.

Araym's wings had the best aesthetic... on the outside, but sacrificed it on the inside of the cargo bay. It's a wee bit too messy inside the bay.

Darth Lazarus wings was the better balanced aesthetic wing set though - his wings had an attention to detail outside as well as inside so as to not overrun obviously much into the cargo bay. His tail was the most pleasing design aesthetic with no clip jittering.

Araym's wings were rooted to the engine core which made swapping them out rather easy to do. I certainly will pursue wings rooted to the engine core for STS-5.

The performance of the STS-5 has to meet or exceed that of STS-4, so this means being able to land empty and with 20 tons of cargo in the bay (SpaceHab). Currently both sets of wings aren't able to land it empty let alone with cargo. Composites are the way to go. But along with composites comes the extra challenge.

But with 1.0 coming soon, I'm not sure how much we want to push for STS-5 with new wing parts and aero messing everything up for the future. Thoughts?

Btw, for getting this far, and inspiring me no matter what we do with STS-5, you both deserve this:

The STS Project was born with a desire to take the best of all shuttle designs and bring them together into the best STS out there. Go ahead and work on your shuttles, but if you want to share your progress, by all means do so! I'll borrow from them anyways if you don't lol Your ideas have caused me to think more about future wing designs that's for sure!

Edited April 17, 2015 by inigma

[Columbia]

Inigma, I really don't want to sound like I'm interrupting, but - in your honest opinion - what do you think I should improve on for the SCA?

I've been working on a new version, and wanted to hear your input about the current Boeing 747.

This is what I've done so far:

The notable changes are in the tail and wings, but it is by far a work in progress (A lot of things, such as the engines and landing gear aren't finished), and I wanted to know what you think.

Thanks in advance!

[Darth Lazarus]

ha!

thanks for the Architect-badge, i feel honored

i will work on some good looking OMS- pods over the wekeend, we will see what i will build. and yes, composite wings are a must have with the current aeromodel, sadly i realy wonder how the new one will work and how the new wings will look

[Araym]

U_U... Yesterday I just worked in VAB, mostly to find a possible, developing, way to reach the STS-5 milestone

I admit that (as I said posting previously) were TOTALLY not tested, but in the idea to root somewhere else the wings, from the cargobay to engines, as in the idea to change the cargobay, maybe, even to a "passenger" shuttle with mk.3 crewtank.

I'm taking with pleasure the honorary "Architect" badge, but I'm not satisfied: if they fly like bricks, they HAVE to fly like glider.

I'm back home early, today...

1- I'm gonna better check the cargobay clipping (Yesterday night I forgot it, working with cargobay closed to check better the outside)

2- I'm going on the SPH, to better check statistical data on "flying balancement" (and maybe trying an hybrid, airbreathing, take-off system from runaway, to finetuning it)

3- I do not accept "failures": STS-5 HAVE to fly. NAAOOOHW LOL

X°D

[Darth Lazarus]

i will quote the Movie Spacecowboys:

"Remmeber, this is not a jet, its a flying brick of concrete"

[inigma]

You can always hyperedit your glide tests. I do.

- - - Updated - - -

Inigma, I really don't want to sound like I'm interrupting, but - in your honest opinion - what do you think I should improve on for the SCA?

I've been working on a new version, and wanted to hear your input about the current Boeing 747.

This is what I've done so far: http://i.imgur.com/gHgptRi.png http://i.imgur.com/1COaUAh.png

The notable changes are in the tail and wings, but it is by far a work in progress (A lot of things, such as the engines and landing gear aren't finished), and I wanted to know what you think.

Thanks in advance!

Can you fixup the moorings on the shuttle to reflect the actual moorings on the NASA SCA? The front connects on the shuttle-SCA mating should be triangled out by a wee bit, but yours are out to the far sides. Check out my config here when I designed the first ever recorded SCA in KSP using Westi's shuttle:

I also recommend dumping the glide cover on the rear engines... and replacing it with a true STS-4 shuttle with emptied tanks but with engines. We can work on a glide cover later if possible or most likely will just wait for 1.0 fairings.

It's looking great so far!

Edited April 17, 2015 by inigma

[pTrevTrevs]

Inigma, I really don't want to sound like I'm interrupting, but - in your honest opinion - what do you think I should improve on for the SCA?

I've been working on a new version, and wanted to hear your input about the current Boeing 747.

This is what I've done so far: http://i.imgur.com/gHgptRi.png http://i.imgur.com/1COaUAh.png

The notable changes are in the tail and wings, but it is by far a work in progress (A lot of things, such as the engines and landing gear aren't finished), and I wanted to know what you think.

Thanks in advance!

Did the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft actually have those rectangular stabilizers on the elevators at the back?

Also, since you're revamping it, I suppose I should mention the tendency for the orbiter to collide with the tail when it separates. I know the tail has to stay due to accuracy, but maybe you could position the separatrons to push the orbiter foward to avoid the tail?

[Columbia]

Can you fixup the moorings on the shuttle to reflect the actual moorings on the NASA SCA? The front connects on the shuttle-SCA mating should be triangled out by a wee bit, but yours are out to the far sides. Check out my config here when I designed the first ever recorded SCA in KSP using Westi's shuttle:

I also recommend dumping the glide cover on the rear engines... and replacing it with a true STS-4 shuttle with emptied tanks but with engines. We can work on a glide cover later if possible or most likely will just wait for 1.0 fairings.

It's looking great so far!

Okay, thanks! I'll be sure to redo the mounting points on the SCA, (and possibly make separation less dangerous.)

Well, I guess you're right about the engine cover.. 1.0's coming very soon anyways.

- - - Updated - - -

Did the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft actually have those rectangular stabilizers on the elevators at the back?

Also, since you're revamping it, I suppose I should mention the tendency for the orbiter to collide with the tail when it separates. I know the tail has to stay due to accuracy, but maybe you could position the separatrons to push the orbiter foward to avoid the tail?

Well, there are extra tails on the empennage, actually:

Last I checked, it was to balance the shuttle's weight.

And I'm aware of it's dangerous tendecy to whack the tail apart, and I'm trying to diagnose it to at least make it easier to clear.. Ir's only causing the game to crash repeatedly.

Thanks for the feedback!

[Sampa]

are you talking about those vertical sections on the 747 tail fins? Those are actually to help reduce tail buffeting while carrying the space shuttle orbiter and does not have ANY control surfaces on them of any kind!

[Yukon0009]

I wonder what would happen if the STS was slapped on the side of my Energia and made ruskyish.

[pTrevTrevs]

I wonder what would happen if the STS was slapped on the side of my Energia and made ruskyish.

Do it.

This will be interesting to see.

[Columbia]

I wonder what would happen if the STS was slapped on the side of my Energia and made ruskyish.

With a bit of OMS modification, SAS modules and aesthetic modifications, you'd have the Buran!

[Yukon0009]

No.

[borisperrons]

AFAIK, they bad the plane enter a shallow dive while detatching the orbiter. Since it was mounted with the nose slightly up, it ended parallel with the ground, so once detatched it flew straight, while the SCA continued its dive and cleared the tail.