Do you feel KSP is ready for 1.0?

[rkman]

1.0 is a landmark for KSP and Squad. But nowhere near the end. Development plan continues at the same rhythm into 1.1, 1.2, etc.

 Maxmaps (@Maxmaps) January 24, 2015

I think everyone is better off with people burning themselves on a thing that has a label "Warning! Hot!" (Early Access) - it's those people's problem that they don't understand it is not cool to the touch, than for people to burn themselves on a thing that is still hot but has no warning label.

It's just hard to imagine that Squad can resolve all the outstanding issues *and* deliver the new features in a balanced and bug-free state (as arguably required for a non-alpha, non-beta, non-early access version), without spending much more time on this update than they have on the previous updates. And if they are going to take that long they might just as well do at least one more beta version.

Edited January 25, 2015 by rkman

[Fourjays]

Off the top of my head, I find Introversion to be rather trustworthy. IMO, they've always delivered more than they've promised, and I don't remember ever feeling deceived by them. Darwinia was a bit of a let down, but I don't feel that it didn't achieve any of its goals.

I generally do have a certain amount of trust in Squad, up until the point where they pulled this "We're in Beta...we've always been at war with Beta" head game thing.

Out of all the early access games I play, Prison Architect is the only one I can honestly say feels ready to release. Just needs a good bug bash and some tidying up and it's good as far as I'm concerned.

Many people (including myself) need to be careful to discern between what would make KSP "ready for release" and what we merely "want". In a perfect world I'd want all the realism mods integrated, but things like reentry heating, life support and communications are all a bit out-of-scope for the default KSP experience really (although I've still got no clue what the bitrate nonsense is all about with the communications parts). I've been saying for a long time that the career/science modes are lacking, largely because the science collection becomes boring (seriously, there are so many small ways to improve this), but this could easily be expanded on post-1.0.

Keeping that in mind... I think the following is what is stopping KSP being ready for 1.0 (not in any particular order):

- Performance. Memory usage is too high and desperately needs optimising, the low FPS in atmospheres needs to be fixed (even my powerful PC struggles to maintain 30FPS at times) and the Mac version needs some love as just getting stock KSP running is a pain (have a config with a decent processor and Nvidia graphics).

- Bug fixes and testing. They're going to fix all the bugs apparently, but as a developer myself (websites and recently games) I'd say you should always do one more round of testing than you actually think you need. I got too excited when releasing my first game and messed up the performance. I patched it soon after release, but it took almost a year to recover from those first bad reviews... There should be at least one more beta.

- Assist and explain. Some aspects of KSP need to be simplified or explained better. I mentioned above the communication bitrates... I really have no idea what they mean. Nor do I know what the difference in colours on the transmit and keep report bars of the science screen mean (darker/lighter green/blue). If I hadn't watch some videos I'd have never have figured out how to get to orbit. Without the Engineer mod I'd have no idea how much power is in my rocket. I'd have never gotten to the Mun without Scott Manley's help and who knows how you figure out inter-planetary travel without a mod or a physics degree. I've made my point - KSP needs really good tutorials, and more in-built tools to help with these aspects. Maybe tie them into the tech tree to add some variation to science.

- Part variation. KSP needs some more part variation to help keep things fresh and flesh out the tech tree. Fairings are a must with the new aerodynamics (not seen these mentioned), but more parts on the whole would help make the game feel more complete. Another command pod, some additional engine options, more varied communication parts, some alternative escape towers, etc. To achieve this quicker Squad could look at integrating some choice mods or perhaps have a community competition to create these parts (the best ones getting into the game).

- Mod dependance. Don't depend on modders to complete the game. I'm very worried this is why Squad are rushing to release - because of the wealth of mods out there that "complete" the game. I used to play Trainz Simulator and the thing that killed it was the developers basically releasing an engine with a bunch of community developed content included on the disc. Mods and modders are good, but don't use them as a crutch. You still have to make the game as good as possible.

- Improve visuals. KSP is not a bad looking game, but it isn't good either. Many of the parts don't visually fit (especially with the new plane parts), the atmosphere looks boring without EVE/Better Atmospheres, the default skybox is a horrendously blurry mess, terrain scatter is still "WIP", and I believe (from others) that there are easter eggs now buried beneath the ground.

- Wishes. While not necessary, a few minor improvements to various systems could help complete the game. I've repeatedly mentioned science and it'd be a whole lot more interesting if some of the experiments required you to gather data from multiple locations before you get the science (e.g. gather geology samples from 3 locations on the Mun). And what about something like KSPI's "crash-a-thing-into-the-planet-and-get-science" device (the name escapes me )? Non-science wise, perhaps have a powerful engine that can only be powered by a resource obtained from outside Kerbin's SOI? Maybe a satellite part to help in discovering the easter eggs? Small things like this could make the whole career mode more motivating, involving and interesting, while helping to fill the tech tree and add variation, without too much development on new systems.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Fourjays

[basic.syntax]

So which is it (Squad or the large group of beta testers) who let a memory leak through that makes many players have to restart the game after an hour or so of playing?

Yeah, I'm with you on that bug. (I'm not in that group of testers.) I'm doing lots of restarting. I guess Squad decided to let it go through and deal with it later, to meet the holiday ship date. I'll be grumbling with you if we see it in 1.0, but my fallback position is still: HarvesteR's bullet point in the goals announcement to address bugs, and 16,000 positive comments on STEAM that (taken together) say "stuff happened... but I had fun anyway!"

[GoSlash27]

I would like to take this question as well, as it applies to me too.

It should be quite obvious, if they release it early and it gets bad reviews, less people buy it, less money goes to Squad, Squad has to lay off Devs, Squad closes development of KSP. If the game succeeds, development continues and we will get the additional content we want. On a less selfish note, the dev's at Squad get to keep their jobs. it's a win-win for everybody.

Edit:You posted the above while I was writing this.

Robotengineer,

So it comes down to I might not get all the content and development that I want if it flops? Fair enough. I wasn't expecting that anyway.

Is there any other reason I should be concerned?

Best,

-Slashy

[basic.syntax]

See Maxmaps tweets and comments earlier in this thread.

[redsh]

Stable x64? IVAs? What 1.0?

[superkurbol2014]

I like a lot of mods. I am really picky about how and when I play the game. I don't like the career mode. I like a lot of mods. Updates tend to ruin that. I am a little nervous about the new changes to astophspear. I never figured out how to fly using FMAR back when it was popular. I like to play on science mode and build my program that why I plan it out. I will test everything long before I update my main game.

[The Yellow Dart]

- Mod dependance. Don't depend on modders to complete the game. I'm very worried this is why Squad are rushing to release - because of the wealth of mods out there that "complete" the game. I used to play Trainz Simulator and the thing that killed it was the developers basically releasing an engine with a bunch of community developed content included on the disc. Mods and modders are good, but don't use them as a crutch. You still have to make the game as good as possible.

I totally agree with this. There simply aren't enough parts in the stock game to be able to build the ships you want, and there are so many holes in the part catalog that need to be filled in stock. Not to mention so many very simple mods that add so much to the game. They could easily add clouds and city lights, atmospheric trajectories, a simplified version of construction time, different launch sites, etc. It really does feel like they are leaning on mods too much.

[klgraham1013]

Robotengineer,

So it comes down to I might not get all the content and development that I want if it flops? Fair enough. I wasn't expecting that anyway.

Is there any other reason I should be concerned?

Best,

-Slashy

You really don't care if the game continues to succeed? You actually don't care? A game that embraces science; that embraces intelligent play. (most of the time)

This game is utterly unique compared to 99% of the market. If it succeeds, that means so much. The possibility of KSP2 on a custom engine, tailor-made for the game. Kids growing up with KSP and deciding to build a future in science.

...or is it all about what's best for Slashy?

[Hanuman]

I'm going to do my very best to keep this as short as I possibly can. The problem is that I can see and understand both sides of this issue really well, because rather than just immediately choose a side and then stick to defending it, I've spent the last couple days actually thinking about it all.

In super-short, I chose yes, KSP is ready for 1.0. Here's why:

It's really easy for us, to not see the forest for all these trees in our way. I truly understand why people are saying no, it's not ready. They're worried that out there in the "regular world" current issues with Unity, with Tutorials, with whatever issues are most important to them are such a big deal, that they will derail development and bring about an end to something they love and/or care about. The problem with this point of view however, is that you've become inured to the qualities and highlights of the game, and aren't realizing that for each and every standing issue, there is so much more quality and in-general "good things" backing it up. It's easy to panic at a possible threat, when you lose sight of how good something objectively is, because you're so used to looking at it, that all you can see are the imperfections.

On the other side of the coin:

This is a dream of Harvester's come to life. This is his baby, and has been a project that has essentially consumed him for years now. Try to imagine, if something this important, and this personal to you, if you could point at it say "This is my vision made real. This is everything that I thought of years ago, and now, there it is. I am absolutely going to take what I've learned, and the goals I've also picked up along the way, and continue to try to make it better, but, as far as the inception goes? There it is." Can you imagine how much he cares about this game? Try to picture it, even for a second. Can you really find yourself believing that he'd just flippantly do anything to bring harm to his creation? Remember that SQUAD was not a game development company. They were/are an ADVERTISING firm. Do you really believe that an advertising company cannot grasp the notion of the review, and word of mouth?

So why did yes win out for me? Truly, because of this forum, not the game. Because of this community. I've played a LOT of games in my life. I've seen a LOT of game communities, and still the community for KSP surprised me with their positivity, and general sense of cheer. I'm not a cheerful person, by nature. That said, people here are genuinely friendly, with a unique interest that unites us, and gives us common ground with which to put those good things on display. I truly believe that Harvester and SQUAD with this announcement were expecting some upset, and some fear, but also for the note of positivity in this community to carry us all forward. The only problem that comes with that, is it's very easy to panic, and so much harder to just trust someone when you have not put as much thought into it as they have.

I started playing KSP in .18, far from the earliest, but also just as far from where we are now with KSP now. Back then, I couldn't have imagined the actual gameplay beyond the sandbox, but the developers were doing just exactly that. They have been thinking about this, and working towards this milestone for several years now. Knowing that, when Harvester asks for us to trust in a decision like this? I may be inclined to panic, but I'm going to try to keep a handle on that, and let trust win out. All the hours of work that they've done, and all the fun and good times that KSP have brought me from .18 to now have earned that from me. I won't let panic over something that might happen, maybe, possibly, cause me to forget that.

So: Yes, Harvester. If you say KSP is and/or will be ready for this leap, I believe you. You've earned that much, and I wouldn't dare want to be someone to try to stand in the way of this kind of accomplishment. You know, just... don't screw it up.

[razark]

I asked my child "Are you ready to go to school?"

He says "Yes."

I look over, and he's not dressed.

I say "Look, you don't have a shirt on, no shoes, and your hair isn't brushed!"

He says "Well, I know what a shirt is, I plan on putting on shoes, brushing my hair is just a cosmetic thing, and ready is such a meaningless concept, anyway."

[GoSlash27]

You really don't care if the game continues to succeed? You actually don't care? A game that embraces science; that embraces intelligent play. (most of the time)

This game is utterly unique compared to 99% of the market. If it succeeds, that means so much. The possibility of KSP2 on a custom engine, tailor-made for the game. Kids growing up with KSP and deciding to build a future in science.

...or is it all about what's best for Slashy?

Oh, I care... But I also recognize that this is not my circus and these are not my monkeys. There is therefore no justification I can see for histrionics on my part or anybody who's not *personally* affected by the outcome.

The devs have a lot riding on this. You and I do not. I trust them to make decisions in their own best interest.

I don't show how much I care by demanding that other people do their job my way. YMMV.

Best,

-Slashy

Edited January 25, 2015 by GoSlash27

[Hanuman]

I asked my child "Are you ready to go to school?"

He says "Yes."

I look over, and he's not dressed.

I say "Look, you don't have a shirt on, no shoes, and your hair isn't brushed!"

He says "Well, I know what a shirt is, I plan on putting on shoes, brushing my hair is just a cosmetic thing, and ready is such a meaningless concept, anyway."

The inherent problem with this analogy is that Harvester and SQUAD are not children, much less YOUR children, and you do not know their vision better than they do.

[Technical Ben]

No one talked about vision or personality. Just a juxtaposition on comments and actions.

If those planned features are up in code in the pre-releases, then yes, this game is ready for 1.0. If it's just promises (Ahem, Elite:dangerous and a few other games out there) then it may be a problem.

[Tex_NL]

Our opinion does matter at all. We, the forum community, will keep playing KSP no matter the state of development or designation. The only opinion that does matter is that of the non initiated KSP-muggles. Calling KSP 1.0 and saying it's finished creates the expectation of a finished, optimized and bug free product. Even SQUAD can not deny the plain simple fact that KSP is far from finished, optimized and bug free. If people expect a filet-mignon steak but get a hot dog they will be disappointed and will complain. Complaints here on the forum can be controlled but for every complaint here there will be hundreds in other places all over the web. Once the damage is done it's done. It takes just one person a day to destroy a name, it takes an entire team years to build one.

So I too must urge SQUAD to reconsider. Please, don't shoot yourself in the foot. Don't go for 1.0 just yet. Take some more time to actually finish the game and iron of the kinks.

[Yellowburn10]

Personally, I think only 2 other things would need to be added in order for the game to be totally complete in my image: At LEAST one other gas planet, and some form of reentry heating. But besides that, if squad keeps their promises with their mountain of features they planned, I'll consider the game complete.

I know for sure time-wise though that KSP is totally ready, because it's been in early access for, what was it? Close to 4 years now? I don't know too many other ErAc games with that long development time.

[Tex_NL]

...

I know for sure time-wise though that KSP is totally ready, because it's been in early access for, what was it? Close to 4 years now? I don't know too many other ErAc games with that long development time.

Bull crap! Time spent in the kitchen does not determine the quality of the meal.

[Hanuman]

I have to say, on the contrary, our opinion DOES matter, and not just if it's positive either. Look how much KSP has changed with regard to community feedback. Look at how proud the developers and everyone at SQUAD is of this community. They take every chance they can to tell us that we are the best gaming community that exists. Not just that exists for this type of game, or that exists for early release, but that exists period. Some companies say that, and it's fake, but I lurked on this forum for a LONG time before I actually joined, and as for here? I tend to think it's true, and I think SQUAD honestly feels that way.

We matter to them, and with respect, there can already be complaints or negative reviews. Nothing is preventing that from happening right this moment, no, not even an early release tag. A reviewer could just as easily criticize STAYING in early release, when your original design document and vision has been met (and in some ways exceeded) for hiding behind an early release tag as a lack of confidence in their creation. Nothing can stop a person from writing a harsh or negative review. The only way to counter a negative is by creating a net positive, and if there's any group better put together than this forum to do just that, then I cannot imagine what it would look like. That is why we matter, and THAT is what SQUAD would need from us most. Not just post 1.0, but today.

[Yellowburn10]

Bull crap! Time spent in the kitchen does not determine the quality of the meal.

True, but leave it in the oven for too long and it could end up being overcooked.

[Walker]

IMO it's not ready for 1.0. This game has two great aspects: building rockets from "lego" parts and exploring the solar system. Building aspect of the game will be quite finished in 1.0 - we have many parts, new interface for VAB and SPH is implemented, balanced career will make building rockets and planes even more challenging and interesting.

Unfortunately, the part of the game that focuses on exploration is unpolished - there are too few planets and moons to go to, also existing bodies seem incomplete and are quite ill-looking compared to modern games. This game lacks more interesting places to go and interesting things to do on surfaces of other planets: there should be clouds, weather, volcanoes, geysers, procedural craters, comets, rings around planets, more easter eggs to discover...

Player should send probes to other planets not because he is obligated by "explore Duna" contract, but because he is curious how every new planet looks like. It shouldn't be possible to see every planet and moon in tracking station until it is explored by a probe, there should be also possibility do detect new, procedurally generated small moons with probes.

[The Joker]

True, but leave it in the oven for too long and it could end up being overcooked.

No one said anything about the oven.

Like what's been said, KSP has been in Alpha for several years now. We've only just gone into Beta, and Squad has, for some reason, decided to put practically everything into the next update. With a mountain of features, there'll be a mountain of bugs. The game has poor optimization as it is. Squad needs to go through each feature piece by piece and flesh it out. We've come this far doing that. I don't see why we need to rush a masterpiece.

[Robotengineer]

Robotengineer,

So it comes down to I might not get all the content and development that I want if it flops? Fair enough. I wasn't expecting that anyway.

Is there any other reason I should be concerned?

Best,

-Slashy

In my case, I just want the game and it's devs to succeed because they have provided hundreds of hours of entertainment and learning. I want KSP to stick around for it to have that kind of affect on other people. I've sunk a crap-ton of hours into this game, and a crap-ton more reading technical papers from NASA, learning to code and model/texture, and countless hours of managing mods. It would make me extremely sad to see KSP to have gone this far, only to flop.

--Updated--

Squad, you don't need to rush this. People aren't leaving because you're taking your time. Take your time, flesh out every little feature and part, and make this a real masterpiece.

Totally agree. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Robotengineer

[ArgenTum]

I registered just to say this:

In my opinion, what differs good games from really good games nowadays is well... flair I guess. A story. Immersion. And that's whats lacking before 1.0 in my opinion.

For example, I love X-COM (the originals of course, not the "bland" re-imagining). Trying to find a modern variant I tried Xenonauts. The game-play in Xenonauts is really good. But it lacks "it". For example, when winning (saving the entire world from an alien invasion), you get a (still) screen saying: "You won." Even the original X-COM (from the 90s) had more of a beginning and an end.

That's a lesson I would like KSP to learn. When sandbox was all there was I was fine playing for hours on end just to create one mega-ship to tour all the planets (I didn't complete it...) But now, I have start playing career mode on hard. And boy, is it hard. The slightest mistake and game over. (I love it, although I would like a couple of features to help out.) But now, playing career, I really miss greater immersion. KSP already has real flair, but I think KSP would truly lift off (pun intented) with a STORY. The team has already made several great videos. Now make some in-game ones. When starting, there should be a movie explaining how the Kerbals live and evolve (maybe they live under the ground, thats why there is no lights at night and you can't find any cities. They discovered rockets while trying to make a new kind of soda, but it kept exploding and flying away when they mixed the mentos in. Or whatever.) Then there should be a small movie explaining a bit about the space program and why YOU became its manager, welcoming you. And after that, small, short movies when reaching a milestone. Seeing the Kerbal walking out on the launchpad (in slow-mo) before the first manned flight. And exiting to a crowds cheers after the first successful landing. And then getting your supervisor congratulating you. Etc... Maybe a small film about the first moon-landing... or hearing a small speech the first time the Kerbals EVA on a new planet/moon. ("We came in peace for all Kerbals... well, maybe not the really coward ones..." or something.)

And, in this, a really good tutorial, which you "must" play (you should of course be able to skip it, but still...) where most basic things are explained. How to really get to orbit. Planning a maneuver node. Land on the moon.

As I said, there are features I would like: Re-entry heat. New attachable heat-shields. TWR and delta-v numbers (as an upgrade option) when constructing a spacecraft (á la MechJeb). But they are not as essential for a great KSP as a story, IMHO.

[The Joker]

If someone can answer me why Squad feels the need to rush through Beta into 1.0, that'd be great.

As we've said before, all previous "reviews" of KSP have been taken with a grain of salt, because they realize its only in Alpha/Beta. But what happens when Squad goes to the 1.0 release? Reviewers will see the poor optimization, the lacking of many features, the mountains of bugs and crashes. They'll be harsh with their treatment of the game. It won't go well mainstream.

Squad, you don't need to rush this. People aren't leaving because you're taking your time. Take your time, flesh out every little feature and part, and make this a real masterpiece.

[pandaman]

My original response and post on this was - no, not quite. And I still feel the same based on what little I know (zero) about squads progress with developing the new features and bug fixes etc.

That said, if they are confident that they can achieve their target then why not go for release. It has been a long time in development and the basic core of the game is all in place.

Huge though the scope of this update will be it does make some sense doing it all in one go. All the bits will be in place so major balancing and bug fixing will only need to be done once.

Extra planets and improvements to the existing ones are ideal for future 'goodies', but have no bearing on current playability etc. Nice though they would be They can wait.

What can really let the release down is missed major bugs, and that's what I think most of the community is concerned about. It can give a very bad impression of an otherwise excellent

product.

The only missing features that I feel are needed in the first release are reentry damage (which may be covered by the aero overhaul with any luck) and clouds, purely for eye candy to impress newcomers.

So - Squad, if you can do all this and squash the bugs in one go (and I do think you are capable) then yes it is the right time to go for public release.

But please, before you 'launch', double check your staging and make sure you haven't forgotten your solar panels and batteries.

Great game, Awesome job so far. Keep it up.