[Stock Helicopters & Turboprops] Non DLC Will Always Be More Fun!

[Gman_builder]

8 hours ago, Azimech said:

It's a concept for changing a rotational motion from one plane to another.

I got that much. But how would that be built in KSP and how can it be utilized?

[klond]

17 hours ago, Pds314 said:

Wait wait wait... I just realized...

 

 

Could work without meshing problems.

 This reciprocation action leads to piston engines and that means fun!

Anyways, hello everyone.  Much respect for all the work you've all done.  I've been playing with small bearings every day after work.  'Can't wait to get home today and get a small turboplane to the island on stock.  'Trying to make my own without directly copying work, but without re-inventing the wheel either.  Reminds me of playing with Lego Technic sets when I was younger.

'Been trying to put steering on gman's 4wd car.  'Never did finish, but I'm imagining a universal joint on the center driveshaft and a center pivot (articulated steering) to just bend the whole vehicle in the center.  Would be easier than a whole new front end (which I originally started with but paused).

Thanks for keeping this amazing thread alive.

[Azimech]

Welcome to the forum, @klond We feel honoured you've chosen this topic for your first post!

[Gman_builder]

1 hour ago, klond said:

 This reciprocation action leads to piston engines and that means fun!

Anyways, hello everyone.  Much respect for all the work you've all done.  I've been playing with small bearings every day after work.  'Can't wait to get home today and get a small turboplane to the island on stock.  'Trying to make my own without directly copying work, but without re-inventing the wheel either.  Reminds me of playing with Lego Technic sets when I was younger.

'Been trying to put steering on gman's 4wd car.  'Never did finish, but I'm imagining a universal joint on the center driveshaft and a center pivot (articulated steering) to just bend the whole vehicle in the center.  Would be easier than a whole new front end (which I originally started with but paused).

Thanks for keeping this amazing thread alive.

Very cool! I had some concepts floating around in my head about using the extension and retraction of landing gear for steering. I am going to try out that idea by building a reverse/drive gear shifter for my 2 wheel drive car. Seems easy enough for a prototype and proof of concept.

[The Optimist]

So, I've successfully up-powered my workhorse engine so it is capable of 40 radians/s theoretically. I say theoretically because the VOID display for it is off the screen for some reason.

[The Optimist]

Good news: I invented a kraken drive using my small engine

Bad news: I invented a kraken drive using my small engine

 

[Gman_builder]

4 hours ago, The Optimist said:

So, I've successfully up-powered my workhorse engine so it is capable of 40 radians/s theoretically. I say theoretically because the VOID display for it is off the screen for some reason.

Click the VOID tab in game / configuration / lock advanced HUD

Then you can click and move the thing around so its not offscreen

click lock again to lock it there

[The Optimist]

5 minutes ago, Gman_builder said:

Click the VOID tab in game / configuration / lock advanced HUD

Then you can click and move the thing around so its not offscreen

click lock again to lock it there

Thank you!

 

[Gman_builder]

Watch with annotations on

 

[EladDv]

6 hours ago, The Optimist said:

Good news: I invented a kraken drive using my small engine

Bad news: I invented a kraken drive using my small engine

 

THAT i want to see

[Pds314]

New engine in testing. Mk2 form factor with no less than 40 Junos. Running at the thermal, yes, the thermal, limits of the design:
75 parts without prop.
40 Junos.
10.9 tonnes without prop.
Could easily be expanded to 80 or 120 blowers, though this would make it appear to be a cylinder of whirling magma.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Pds314

[klond]

Dear Pds314,

 I took up your mini-challenge for a really small or lightweight or low-part engine (can't find the post).  Well, I've been working on a one juno unit and struggled to get the bearing and prop efficiency high enough and weight low enough for takeoff, yet have enough fuel to do stuff.  I have emerged from the garage victorious with this lil guy that can just make it the island.  It's on my kerbalx page too.  'Was so giddy that my hours of work paid off.  Oh and I borrowed that avionics cone tech   100% stock but floating parts might be bending the rules a bit I suppose 

[Pds314]

4 hours ago, klond said:

Dear Pds314,

 I took up your mini-challenge for a really small or lightweight or low-part engine (can't find the post).  Well, I've been working on a one juno unit and struggled to get the bearing and prop efficiency high enough and weight low enough for takeoff, yet have enough fuel to do stuff.  I have emerged from the garage victorious with this lil guy that can just make it the island.  It's on my kerbalx page too.  'Was so giddy that my hours of work paid off.  Oh and I borrowed that avionics cone tech   100% stock but floating parts might be bending the rules a bit I suppose 

Very interesting. I've yet to put anything in the air with a 1-juno design. I have a couple of minimal-weight 2-Juno aircraft, and a 2-Juno chopper, but nothing that only has 1 Juno.

One thing I will say is that that engine is quite wide compared to, for example, my Screacher series engines. I.e. This little chopper uses the Screecher 2x1 engine and while it's hopelessly underperforming when it comes to thrust/weight ratio, it is very compact.

Nonetheless, you've still got probably the lightest engine to lift a plane off, which is quite a distinction. On another note, what's the RPM limit?

New Helicopter based on a ruggedized Talon X engine (the above engine I posted with 40 blowers)

It originally had a prop that was 3 surfaces in radius, but I realized that the induced roll torque had tendency to break things. Unfortunately, Kerbal helicopters don't have cyclic pitch, or at least, mine don't, so the center of lift moves to the right considerably as the craft moves forward.

The chopper weighs 40 tonnes fueled and lifts off with relative ease: (screenshot is of previous, unfueled version because my screenshot folder is having problems now)

Edited July 25, 2016 by Pds314

[Pds314]

Also, Here's a very plug-in-play helicopter I put on on KerbalX:

Uses the Screacher 6x1 engine.

https://kerbalx.com/pds314/Turbocopter-XR-3

 

[klond]

Thanks for the reply.  Roger on the size - gives me something to work towards.  I need to download and study a few designs, maybe try that inside-out ring tech.  Your insight about torque arm length/radius earlier saved me a lot of time.

[Pds314]

32 minutes ago, klond said:

Thanks for the reply.  Roger on the size - gives me something to work towards.  I need to download and study a few designs, maybe try that inside-out ring tech.  Your insight about torque arm length/radius earlier saved me a lot of time.

Yeah. Big torque radius is good for turbine blades, not always good for props.

On an aside, perhaps I'll try making a Screecher 1x1 engine. 450 kg and 20 parts of pure slowness!

Edited July 25, 2016 by Pds314

[Pds314]

Alright. I MAY have had a prop strike during taxi....

But I still managed to get inside the hanger!

The entire craft weighs a bit under 2 tonnes, plus 250 kg of liquid fuel (or 340 kg if the engine tank is used).

Maximum Ferry range is ~70 kilometers or thereabouts. Probably enough to land on the Island and return if flown right.

The Parakeet: my first Screacher 1x1 plane. 47 parts in total, lighter and simpler than some of my older "small" engines. A note on starting the engine: Set to about +20 +150 pitch, then wait for speed to exceed 15 rads/s. This could take a few seconds. Promptly reduce to about -60 and takeoff. Do not hold down S, but just try to be as level as possible without a prop strike until speed exceeds 25 m/s. Pull up and increase pitch until speed is at 60 m/s and pitch is at +90. It may be worth further increasing pitch from there at some point.



https://kerbalx.com/pds314/Parakeet

Edited July 25, 2016 by Pds314

[EpicSpaceTroll139]

I've been working on some radicalish designs. Mainly this thing that kind of looks like the ugly baby of a propfan and a ducted fan.

I'm hoping to upgrade my giant-ring-turbine concept to go much faster eventually, but right now I guess I should focus on non-explosiveness.

Apparently some of my pictures haven't come up, and they're out of order, but I can get at least 45m/s out of this (running it at half throttle, at high throttle above this speed it seems to have a habit of throwing something out of whack resulting in one or the other prop busting, and consequentially spinning out of control. Right now it's getting only 37 or so rad/s, but if I can figure out the expansion/wiggle issues with it, I think it is capable of at least 50 to 60 rad/s.

Edited July 25, 2016 by EpicSpaceTroll139
Figured imgur out... sort of

[Gman_builder]

@EpicSpaceTroll139Over the past few weeks we have determined that it is all but impossible to run a prop over 51 rad/s Due to expansion and drag and whatnot. so that's pretty much the engine RPM limit unless we can engineer some kind of new prop that doesn't abide by the laws of KSP physics.

[MatttheCzar]

Any autogyros made?  I tried to make one, but I couldn't overcome the dissymetry of lift.

[klond]

17 hours ago, Pds314 said:

Alright. I MAY have had a prop strike during taxi....

But I still managed to get inside the hanger!

The entire craft weighs a bit under 2 tonnes, plus 250 kg of liquid fuel (or 340 kg if the engine tank is used).

Maximum Ferry range is ~70 kilometers or thereabouts. Probably enough to land on the Island and return if flown right.

The Parakeet: my first Screacher 1x1 plane. 47 parts in total, lighter and simpler than some of my older "small" engines. A note on starting the engine: Set to about +20 +150 pitch, then wait for speed to exceed 15 rads/s. This could take a few seconds. Promptly reduce to about -60 and takeoff. Do not hold down S, but just try to be as level as possible without a prop strike until speed exceeds 25 m/s. Pull up and increase pitch until speed is at 60 m/s and pitch is at +90. It may be worth further increasing pitch from there at some point.



https://kerbalx.com/pds314/Parakeet

Bested me in one day!  Even has a little dude on there.  Guess that's how challenges go.  Back to the drawing board. *cracks knuckles*

[Gman_builder]

1 hour ago, MatttheCzar said:

Any autogyros made?  I tried to make one, but I couldn't overcome the dissymetry of lift.

Ya no. Gyrocopters are a whole 'nother level.

[MatttheCzar]

Just now, Gman_builder said:

Ya no. Gyrocopters are a whole 'nother level.

 

Funny, IRL gyrocopters are easier to build than helicopters.  In KSP it's the other way around!

[Gman_builder]

Just now, MatttheCzar said:

 

Funny, IRL gyrocopters are easier to build than helicopters.  In KSP it's the other way around!

I mean, making bearing is obviously the hardest part. Because of the weird aerodynamic forces applied on the rotor of a gyrocopter, the bearing would receive unequal stress and that obviously causes problems in the Kerbal physics system.

[MatttheCzar]

3 minutes ago, Gman_builder said:

I mean, making bearing is obviously the hardest part. Because of the weird aerodynamic forces applied on the rotor of a gyrocopter, the bearing would receive unequal stress and that obviously causes problems in the Kerbal physics system.

The problem I had was that the blades couldn't "seesaw" like on a real gyro or heli.  I was using IR for my bearing.

Edited July 26, 2016 by MatttheCzar