[Stock Helicopters & Turboprops] Non DLC Will Always Be More Fun!

[Azimech]

18 hours ago, _Rade said:

I've finally managed to build the helicopter rotor with the working swashplate and collective.

Rotor uses 2 decouplers to act as the swashplate, and then there is one rcs ball for each rotor blade captured between the decouplers. 4 elevons bellow the swashplate control its pitch and roll and this is then transferred to the rotor blades.

For the collective I've used 2 elevons to push up on the rcs ball that act as the bearing for the swashplate. You can toggle these by engaging the brakes, it's not perfect but it works.

Only problem is the rotor will only spin at about 7rad/s. I've tried adding more engines and using the reaction wheels but for some reason it doesn't want to spin faster. One thing that is interesting is that if you don't decouple the rotor blades the rotor will be able to spin faster, but then the swashplate and collective don't work.

Link to the craft file on KerbalX.

Excellent work!

Are you using RCS balls as root for some of your subassemblies? This would explain the 7 rad/s limit. The mass of the RCS balls is added to a root. If heavier parts are connected to a RCS ball, KSP/Unity does strange things (I once had a truck door floating in mid air after decoupling).

[_Rade]

2 hours ago, Azimech said:

Excellent work!

Are you using RCS balls as root for some of your subassemblies? This would explain the 7 rad/s limit. The mass of the RCS balls is added to a root. If heavier parts are connected to a RCS ball, KSP/Unity does strange things (I once had a truck door floating in mid air after decoupling).

Thanks for the info on that, I've never had this issue before. I've used the cubic octagonal struts as the root part for the rotor blades.

I'm gonna rebuild the blades to see if this contraption will work at higher RPM.

[klond]

13 minutes ago, _Rade said:

gonna rebuild the blades to see if this contraption will work at higher RPM.

 I think it's because they can't stretch.  You know how you spin up a rotor and the blades pull away from the hub?  I think the game isn't allowing stretching in your current configuration so it's limiting you to the top speed that it can without stretching.  GL, keep at it.

[Azimech]

2 hours ago, klond said:

 I think it's because they can't stretch.  You know how you spin up a rotor and the blades pull away from the hub?  I think the game isn't allowing stretching in your current configuration so it's limiting you to the top speed that it can without stretching.  GL, keep at it.

Unfortunately it's not that easy. Some of the latest turbines use the atmospheric science thingy as turbine blades, which don't expand.

[klond]

On 12/17/2018 at 3:32 PM, Azimech said:

Unfortunately it's not that easy. Some of the latest turbines use the atmospheric science thingy as turbine blades, which don't expand.

 Are you saying there are science parts that create lift now?

[qzgy]

3 hours ago, klond said:

 Are you saying there are science parts that create lift now?

I think he's talking about the thing the blowers blow on. Not the actual things to create lift.

Been working on my own stuff. Made/sorta finished a single rotor kinda thing

Kinda prone to vibrations and very prone to rolling while in forward flight. Was mainly for that reason I started work on a coax design. So far I think it's my best one yet (old image but still kinda give the gist. Has been prettied up and stuff).

Not quite as responsive as I'd prefer though. Probably due to having basically 2 gyroscopes.....

[Castille7]

Working on this, gotta few different ideas on which direction to go. Maybe an Ultralight or a Gyrocopter thingy not sure atm. Explosions are periodically happening. Design work much needed.

[Castille7]

Hahaha... The struggle is real! . I've also tried the Parachute with just the rear rotor and that was looking cool but not successful, it's all in the fun! I should at least have a good little Turbo Engine to try on a few ideas after this project. I'm using RCS Balls on the JR Docking Port as an added stabilizer for the rotor, seems to be helping nicely. I plan to test different pitch on the blades and use different types of blades for looks and efficiency. 

Here's a close up of the Engine Design I'm working on. Recent testing got me around 27 m/s with less explosions. I am almost airborne with my first Turbo! 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Castille7

[_Rade]

I finally did it, I made the helicopter with a  working swashplate.

I've used more or less the same design I've posted few days ago. First I've tried using only the rotor with the swashplate, but it can only spin about 16-17rad/s before breaking up. That's not fast enough to provide sufficient lift for the helicopter. So I've added additional coaxial rotor that just provides the lift, while the rotor with the swashplate is used to control the helicopter and provide a little bit of lift.

Also the tail rotor can slide left or right via the elevon that's controlling its position. In neutral position rotor is spun just by 2 juno engines. If you want to turn right rotor is positioned so that 4 junos act on it to spin it faster. If you want to turn left rotor is positioned out of the way of juno engines, so it idles and slows down and the torque from the main engines turns the helicopter.

Craft file.

[Castille7]

Here's an update on my Tiny Turbo GyroCopter. The speeds are much better, started getting lift but blades hit the turf, going lift the craft and continue other tweaks.

I've been working on many styles of craft with this little engine. This Turbo stuff is a lot of fun!

[Castille7]

After much determination my first Turbo Powered Engine is Airborne! It's power is still low and I will continue to make some tweaks before releasing. Thanks to all of you peeps on here and @klond 's engine ideas that I've seen I was able to pull this off. Next Engine I plan on is that double prop Klond made on the Sanchez Besa. Gonna admit these are a mimic of what he is doing because making small stuff limits you to the same parts and techniques, for the most part anyway.

 

Edited January 12, 2019 by Castille7

[Azimech]

Time to inject some fresh words into this topic before it exits to the digital netherworld.

Have you guys been doing anything new lately?

I don't have plans except updating old designs to the new version.

But I'm very excited with the possibilities the new DLC will bring.

[Castille7]

On 5/19/2019 at 3:11 AM, Azimech said:

Time to inject some fresh words into this topic before it exits to the digital netherworld.

Have you guys been doing anything new lately?

I don't have plans except updating old designs to the new version.

But I'm very excited with the possibilities the new DLC will bring.

Nice to see you back in action after a quiet period on the forums, it's not the same without you!  I have a few projects that I would like to return to with this new DLC like the Hurricane Hunter Aircraft that I couldn't get off the ground and still may not get it in flight . As for new stuff maybe another Bridge, I seem to return to those because I like them so much.

For those of us who don't know the Gaming Lingo 

DLC refers to additional content that can be downloaded within a video game. It has become a common feature in PC, console, and mobile games. The most common type of downloadable content is extra maps or levels that extend the gameplay of the original game.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Castille7

[jfrouleau]

On 5/19/2019 at 4:11 AM, Azimech said:

Time to inject some fresh words into this topic before it exits to the digital netherworld.

Have you guys been doing anything new lately?

I don't have plans except updating old designs to the new version.

But I'm very excited with the possibilities the new DLC will bring.

Hi Azimech, it's great to hear from you. I'm also very excited about the new DLC. I will play with the robotic parts for sure ! I can't wait to see what people will come up with.

[KerikBalm]

I wonder if these rotor designs will fade into oblivion, once there are spinning parts that don't involve multiple craft.

I never got very much into the stock rotors (only a little), simply because part count was too high.

I will definitely be building props and helos now with the robotics.

[boomchacle]

7 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

I wonder if these rotor designs will fade into oblivion, once there are spinning parts that don't involve multiple craft.

I never got very much into the stock rotors (only a little), simply because part count was too high.

I will definitely be building props and helos now with the robotics.

The stock rotors will never go away. It's not just that we want to have a spinny thing, but it's the challenge of doing it and making it work that appeals to a lot of people.

[KerikBalm]

12 minutes ago, boomchacle said:

The stock rotors will never go away. It's not just that we want to have a spinny thing, but it's the challenge of doing it and making it work that appeals to a lot of people.

I mean... I've made them, for what they can do, the challenge wasn't so appealing to me, since it seemes like such a "kludge" (thermometers as bearing and such...)

I made them for the capabilities, the challenge was a bit interested, but just a working rotor was enough for me... pics:

Spoiler

But if there is a stock (DLC) rotor that will replace multipart bearing composed of thermometers and RCS balls, who wouldn't want that?

Edited May 22, 2019 by KerikBalm

[fourfa]

6 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

But if there is a stock (DLC) rotor that will replace multipart bearing composed of thermometers and RCS balls, who wouldn't want that?

The rotors and main craft will (I assume) be one craft, and unable to collide with itself.  One interesting feature of the current method of separate craft held together by colliders, is that the main craft can exert force on the rotor subcraft.  So you can have jets on the main craft blowing on turbine parts on the rotors, and have the whole mess be controllable and throttleable without switching craft.  I've seen examples that produce more thrust than the bare jets would by themselves (though many don't), but to be fair only as long as the bearing holds together (usually not too long).

Hopefully the robotics controller can be set up so rotary parts can respond to throttle - can't see how the experimentals team would tolerate it otherwise.  Based on what Squad has said about rotating parts consuming EC, that leaves us with electric aircraft that don't really have analogues in the real world.  KSP krakentech jet turbines do have an appealingly realistic noise, smoke trail, and fuel consumption   Hopefully the rotating parts have an associated noise that can stand in for turbine whine, and can be powered by fuel cells without breaking the craft size envelopes we're accustomed to (I have no love for fuselages made of batteries).  And on the plus side, since all the rotor parts will all be part of the same craft, action groups will now be usable for feathering or adjusting multiple props with a single press...

Still I bet someone will quickly find a way to make jet-turbine drums with the rotating parts anyway.  It's going to be fun and weird

 

[boomchacle]

12 minutes ago, fourfa said:

The rotors and main craft will (I assume) be one craft, and unable to collide with itself.  One interesting feature of the current method of separate craft held together by colliders, is that the main craft can exert force on the rotor subcraft.  So you can have jets on the main craft blowing on turbine parts on the rotors, and have the whole mess be controllable and throttleable without switching craft.  I've seen examples that produce more thrust than the bare jets would by themselves (though many don't), but to be fair only as long as the bearing holds together (usually not too long).

Hopefully the robotics controller can be set up so rotary parts can respond to throttle - can't see how the experimentals team would tolerate it otherwise.  Based on what Squad has said about rotating parts consuming EC, that leaves us with electric aircraft that don't really have analogues in the real world.  KSP krakentech jet turbines do have an appealingly realistic noise, smoke trail, and fuel consumption   Hopefully the rotating parts have an associated noise that can stand in for turbine whine, and can be powered by fuel cells without breaking the craft size envelopes we're accustomed to (I have no love for fuselages made of batteries).  And on the plus side, since all the rotor parts will all be part of the same craft, action groups will now be usable for feathering or adjusting multiple props with a single press...

Still I bet someone will quickly find a way to make jet-turbine drums with the rotating parts anyway.  It's going to be fun and weird

 

A jet pointing at your ship will still interact with it, even if it's still part of the ship, so it'd still turn a propeller if it was attached through the rotary part.

[Azimech]

My helicopters have more lifting power than the sum of the jet engines, but also the durability. I once circumnavigated Kerbin by plane and once with a catamaran which could drive as well. Both propeller driven.

But they are bulky, heavy and produce a lot of drag.
 

What I'd expect to build with robotics are heli's with proper cyclic/collective with durability and low part count. The examples that exist are very fragile and have a terrible part count.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Azimech

[SRB]

I was thinking, that to make stock cyclic control, you could use control surfaces bound to pitch and roll to tilt the top portion of the rotor mast, while the bottom part remained vertical, powered by a turbine driven by a jet engine.  For collective control, you could have control surfaces at the tips of the rotor blades which are bound to all extend/retract via action group (one set is upside down compared with the others), like a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaman_K-MAX.  Instead of a tail rotor, you would have a hollow tail boom, with the engine exhaust flowing through it after powering the engine turbine and at the end on each side having an opening covered by a control surface bound to yaw, like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOTAR

[SRB]

I forgot to write this before.

You could also use a jet driving to turbine to drive a propeller, and use control surfaces on the tips of the blades to make a controllable-pitch propeller.

[klond]

On 5/19/2019 at 3:11 AM, Azimech said:

Time to inject some fresh words into this topic before it exits to the digital netherworld.

Have you guys been doing anything new lately?

I don't have plans except updating old designs to the new version.

But I'm very excited with the possibilities the new DLC will bring.

 Glad you're still here.  It's nice of you to check on us all.

 I been working and chatting with @Castille7.  We've made all sorts of construction vehicles and equipment.  He's made a few vids of kerbals on the work site (porta-johns included).

 I'm still messing around with engines.  You had made an engine a while back with a valve train.  I used those same RCS ball-gears from yours on a V engine.   It's nice and small and I couldn't have done it without you.  'Was gonna put it in a car, but time got away from me.

 

 Also, just to say we had "put a piston in the air" I used landing legs to push a crankshaft (two actually) fast enough to just get lil plane airborne.  Calling it a "piston engine" though is really stretching it, even in our loose terms.

 

I'm excited, but worried that the challenge of building will disappear because difficulty will be diminished.  So many crazy things are going to be made it's gonna be hard to stand out.  There's gonna be thousands of jackwagons making stuff that only a few dozen of us were doing before.  

Raise a glass to a new era of movable parts for all.  'Hope it's good.  Let's abuse the crap out of it.

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by klond

[Frozen_Heart]

I think people shouldn't be worried about the DLC making these designs too easy.

 

Instead it will just open up even more complex things to do using hundreds of robotic parts interacting with each other. Could make a full on piston engine or something like that.

[boomchacle]

6 hours ago, Frozen_Heart said:

I think people shouldn't be worried about the DLC making these designs too easy.

 

Instead it will just open up even more complex things to do using hundreds of robotic parts interacting with each other. Could make a full on piston engine or something like that.

Yeah, you could probably do that if they fixed the kraken issue