Chase Cam

[Red Iron Crown]

Copy and pasting BahutmoDs improved chase cam? It's great to see Squad hard at work.

I don't understand why people don't like it when features implemented in popular mods are brought into stock. Surely that's desirable, isn't it? I would love it if I never had to install a mod to play KSP the way I want to.

[RobotsAndSpaceships]

I don't understand why people don't like it when features implemented in popular mods are brought into stock. Surely that's desirable, isn't it? I would love it if I never had to install a mod to play KSP the way I want to.

Because I'd rather see Squad work on original, fresh, content for the game, instead of stuff that has already been done.

[Red Iron Crown]

Because I'd rather see Squad work on original, fresh, content for the game, instead of stuff that has already been done.

An example of which would be? That hasn't been done by a mod, I mean.

[Alshain]

Because I'd rather see Squad work on original, fresh, content for the game, instead of stuff that has already been done.

Stuff that has already been done but doesn't integrate well because of API limitations. Improved chase cam is great but it's tacked onto Chase cam and free cam out of necessity because the API doesn't allow you to insert an all new camera mode (that you can select with "V"). What would be nice is if the API would allow you to add custom camera modes, but that is probably another topic.

[Robotengineer]

Lol, now jumping to the other extreme. We don't know. He didn't say he was implementing everything from the mod nor did he say he wasn't. He just said what he finished, and like Red Iron Crown said, it's probably not done yet.

That's kind of what I was saying, they don't give us enough info, either because it is still subject to change or they just don't want to show it to us. They tease us on Twitter, and then they don't give any info about what was teased about in the dev note. Basically, if it's not to a point at which you can share enough detailed info to assure/terrify/anger the community, you will end up having all of those emotions go through the community.

I understand that it seems duplicitous to say 'we don't have enough info!' then say 'your giving us too many little info teases!'.

This is kind of why we need a Community Manager I suppose.

[Alshain]

That's kind of what I was saying, they don't give us enough info, either because it is still subject to change or they just don't want to show it to us. They tease us on Twitter, and then they don't give any info about what was teased about in the dev note. Basically, if it's not to a point at which you can share enough detailed info to assure/terrify/anger the community, you will end up having all of those emotions go through the community.

I understand that it seems duplicitous to say 'we don't have enough info!' then say 'your giving us too many little info teases!'.

This is kind of why we need a Community Manager I suppose.

I don't disagree with you but there is a thread for that discussion.

[Superfluous J]

Because I'd rather see Squad work on original, fresh, content for the game, instead of stuff that has already been done.

I'm sorry, but this argument has been brought up before. Therefore you cannot bring it up again. Please come up with a fresh argument that nobody has ever come up with before.

[RobotsAndSpaceships]

An example of which would be? That hasn't been done by a mod, I mean.

I can't give you an example, because every major "feature" that we've gotten for the last six updates has been done by a mod before.

I'm sorry, but this argument has been brought up before. Therefore you cannot bring it up again. Please come up with a fresh argument that nobody has ever come up with before.

Thats not really how it works. Arguments and game design are two very different things.

[Alshain]

I can't give you an example, because every major "feature" that we've gotten for the last six updates has been done by a mod before.

A lot of which were planned by Squad prior to the mods existence but they had to schedule their development time. Great minds think alike, and our modding community has a lot of great minds, as does Squad.

[RobotsAndSpaceships]

A lot of which were planned by Squad prior to the mods existence but they had to schedule their development time. Great minds think alike, and our modding community has a lot of great minds, as does Squad.

There were asteroid mods way before .23, mission controller existed much before we got an actual career mode with an economy, most of the mods came way before squad implemented their ideas.

[Red Iron Crown]

I can't give you an example, because every major "feature" that we've gotten for the last six updates has been done by a mod before.

I mean an example of "original, fresh, content for the game" they should be working on that hasn't been already been done by a mod.

There were asteroid mods way before .23, mission controller existed much before we got an actual career mode with an economy, most of the mods came way before squad implemented their ideas.

As an exercise, compare the number of modders to the number of Squad employees. And compare the expectation of quality and bug tolerance in software people paid a company for compared to free software made in people's spare time.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Red Iron Crown

[RobotsAndSpaceships]

I mean an example of "original, fresh, content for the game" they should be working on that hasn't been already been done by a mod.

Oh ok, full DDS conversion, dynamic loading, GP2 (this has been done by mods before, just not very stable ones.), the original resources we were told we were getting (which is never gonna happen.), stable 64 bit, fix the tweakable memory leaks, the list goes on.

[worir4]

I wonder what this will look like when your plane flips out of control, hopefully it will not make me dizzy enough for me to fall out of my chair.

[Alshain]

I wonder what this will look like when your plane flips out of control, hopefully it will not make me dizzy enough for me to fall out of my chair.

Well that depends on whether roll is fixed or not. It won't be worse than the current chase cam in the same situation though.

[Red Iron Crown]

Oh ok, full DDS conversion, dynamic loading, GP2 (this has been done by mods before, just not very stable ones.), the original resources we were told we were getting (which is never gonna happen.), stable 64 bit, fix the tweakable memory leaks, the list goes on.

Done by mod and not content, done by mod and not content, done by mod, done by mod, not content, not content.

[RobotsAndSpaceships]

Done by mod and not content, done by mod and not content, done by mod, done by mod, not content, not content.

DDS loader exists, what I meant was converting all part textures to DDS, as for dynamic loading, a mod did exist, however, it was abandoned by it's developer, for GP2 you clearly didn't read what was in my parentheses, original resources have never been made in a mod, if I'm wrong about that, I would appreciate a link.

[Robotengineer]

Done by mod and not content, done by mod and not content, done by mod, done by mod, not content, not content.

If they aren't going to do those things, at least give us a plugin API and a Planet API.

[RobotsAndSpaceships]

If they aren't going to do those things, at least give us a plugin API and a Planet API.

Ooh, good ones.

[Red Iron Crown]

KSPI is very similar with a big variety of resources. I don't think anyone ever implemented the bundle-of-spaghetti planned resource chart exactly (modders thankfully developed better systems), but they certainly could have.

As for GP2, I read what you wrote just fine. Doesn't mean that people wouldn't claim that Squad is just implementing stuff from mods, because other planets have been implemented by mods.

[cantab]

Can we talk about cameras and not about anything and everything in KSP's development.

This is a video from the mod. Compare that to flying a plane with the current chase cam. It's horrifying, it turns so rigidly and it makes it hard to see exactly which way you are turning because the camera follows so closely behind the plane.

It looks cool enough, but that video is completely different to the current stock "Chase cam", being more of an alternative. You might prefer that style, I prefer having the camera roll with the plane. That's why I want to see both in 1.0.

If the new chase cam does roll, then following velocity rather than heading might not do much to normal flight, but it will matter in scenarios like spins. As regards docking, the main concern is what happens when you go from slowly approaching your target to slowly moving away from your target. It's not going to be helpful to have the camera swing round to face away from the target docking port, however quickly or slowly the view turns.

Camera views really are a player taste thing, and I never heard of a game being hurt by having too many choices.

[Alshain]

As regards docking, the main concern is what happens when you go from slowly approaching your target to slowly moving away from your target. It's not going to be helpful to have the camera swing round to face away from the target docking port, however quickly or slowly the view turns.

We kind of covered most of what you said already previously in the thread but this is a good point. I'm a little more than curious what the mod does in this situation, I'd try it but I can't right now. Also, I'm not objecting to having multiple chase modes (also something I said earlier). Finally, I'm not entirely sure we aren't jumping to conclusions about the old chase camera being removed. The way Harvester worded it, it's not clear that he actually meant to imply this was replacing the old chase cam. He said it was a revision of the old Chase cam, that doesn't necessarily mean replacement. It would be nice to get a little clarification on that.

And last but certainly not least, I’ve done a complete revision of the old Chase camera mode. Now, instead of being completely attached to the vessel in a motion sickness inducing way, it pivots about a coordinate system defined by your velocity vector, or the direction of a targeted object, if any. I’ve also fixed all camera modes not responding to input during coordinate frame transitions. That allows the new Chase cam to switch reference frames on the fly without any rapid changes in orientation (which lead to motion sickness). I have to say, it’s quickly becoming my new favorite cam mode.

[Red Iron Crown]

Can we talk about cameras and not about anything and everything in KSP's development.

That's not a bad idea at all, I should know better. Thanks, cantab.

[Robotengineer]

On the camera, it sounds like a good idea if we have an option to switch to the old one, in BD's mod you press the tab key to switch back and forth.

[Renegrade]

The way Harvester worded it, it's not clear that he actually meant to imply this was replacing the old chase cam. He said it was a revision of the old Chase cam, that doesn't necessarily mean replacement. It would be nice to get a little clarification on that.

It would be nice to get clarification, but I'd have to say that 'complete revision' is an alarming turn of phrase and strongly implies that the old mode has been completely changed into the new mode.

Hopefully we can get that clarification soon, but until then, I'll be in my back yard, digging a chase cam bomb shelter.

[Tank Buddy]

I myself make use of docking mode and chase cam pretty much every time I need to dock or maneuver something in close relation to another vessel. I hope the new revision does not impede docking etc. in any major way. Overall though, I am super excited for this upcoming release!

I use the chase cam exclusively for docking, and I hope that there is at least an option or another camera with the same function as the current one. I find it real dandy for orienting myself when docking.