paul_c

There's a lot of contracts where the parts, or requirements, are clearly just randomly picked and sized. For example, a space station with huge quantities of monopropellant; or fuel etc. Most make sense but some don't. The "in a storage box", to me, seems odd if it did fulfil the contract so I don't think its a major area of confusion.

Congratulations, you have successfully simulated the "Kessler syndrome": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome

An experiment must be "sent to the lab" while in the same biome/situation to earn science - for example, if you are orbiting over "highlands" biome near space, then run an experiment and keep it; then review its data but you've moved to over "midlands" biome, it won't allow you to send it to the lab (or earn any science points from its processing in the lab). (If the dialog box is opened while you were in the biome/situation then remains open, you can still send it for full points). Also, it will clearly show how much science is earned according to the 3 things you can do with it (transmit, recover, send to lab). Transmit and recover are separate from processing in the lab. But transmit and recover are linked; in that if you transmit, then later also recover it, you will only get the balance of the points, not the full "recover" points + "transmit" points. And there's a different % scale for each instrument's transmit points; and it goes down with non-perfect (defined as <80%) comms; and goes down with partial transmission (if you don't have enough electrical power to transmit it in one, you'd need to do partial). Also don't forget some experiments can be run a 2nd, 3rd and 4th time to earn complete science too.

It doesn't "save" anything net; what it DOES do, is gives you the ability to do a big burn which might be more inefficient, or just inconvenient, to do over a longer burn in 1 go. You'll notice though, that a 700 m/s burn takes you a fair way there (about 70% of the way there, if "there" is leaving Kerbin SOI and its roughly 1000m/s to do so). But doesn't make the Ap quite so huge. As the Ap gets larger, of course so does the orbital period (time taken to do 1 orbit) and the speed on the high altitude bits gets slower and slower too, so its a double effect. So I'd advise NOT going to the edge of the SOI with a 960m/s burn, instead if it needs to be a double burn, do ~700m/s first time, then next time just keep burning and burning until the appropriate parameter is reached. This also has the advantage of not potentially encountering Mun/Minmus 6 times, as you've noticed!!

You know things "automatically orbit" if left alone, due to orbital mechanics? All you need to do is send it there and leave it in a stable orbit; and it will be there for ever unless moved again.

You don't need to use fuel transfer pipes, you can turn the decoupler's crossfeed on.

Yes...... If the debris field isn't too wide, you could launch space station #2 on a slightly different inclination/altitude. Or a completely different one?

Upper stage malfunction?

Why 960m/s first one?

Completed NCD, after over a month! Full thread here: Needless to say, it took a huge effort and was looking dicey at times. A summary of "how its done" is: 1. Pick the first contract wisely, resetting if needed. You need one which earns enough money to buy a command module to start off, but it achievable before too long so you can progress from there. 2. At the start, you need to do A LOT of contracts to build up funds; and never fail one, nor kill a Kerbin, they are "game over" for funds/Kerbals. You'll need the Kerbals for later. 3. It is important to be VERY methodical in gathering (Kerbin) science. You need to plan so that you can earn science, then upgrade to a piece of kit, to be able to earn more, ie plot a 'pathway' through the tech. A wrong upgrade could/would result in a dead-end. A spreadsheet, and a thorough understanding of how science points accrue, is recommended. 4. Getting enough science to earn tech to get to the Mun (or Minmus) is VERY marginal - I 'borrowed' the Terrier engine by accepting a test contract, before I could earn enough science to buy the tech tree node (otherwise its a chicken-egg scenario). 5. You need to scrape some science from Mun/Minmus initially (and transmit), using very basic tech, to earn enough to upgrade tech and build something that can return. Then you need to go there again (landing in pretty much EVERY biome) to earn enough to progress. Watch the funds too! By this point, you can combine contracts with the pursuit of science. Be careful to select profitable and/or science-earning contracts, no point doing any others..... 6. You can't avoid going to Minmus. There is a knack to intercepting it! 7. In theory you could avoid interplanetary but in practice.....I think you need to do it. Its quite possible with docking ports to 'build' a higher performing craft, but you'll need a pilot (or two). I took two, so I could do docking reconfigurations without the non-driven part tumbling, which makes docking a complete pain! So, I preserved my pilots for as long as possible by doing Mun/Minmus trips remotely. But going interplanetary is "do or die".

2 more contracts came my way. One was on the Mun, the other Minmus, so I did the Mun one (note the retrograde orbit), then left Mun...... That's the theory (vaguely), but in practice it was a dog's breakfast. I adjusted the orbit to Ap=46.3 to intercept Minmus and it was many many orbits before Minmus came round and was close enough. But I had a ton of fuel and timewarp. So.....2.8 more points to go. A crew report from Mun high space and a crew report from almost any landed biome will do it. We chose Bob, because if it fails, I have Jeb left who is a pilot (so could save weight with no probe core etc). I forgot Bob's fear of heights though. In fact, he vomited while climbing the launch tower (stepladder....this is Caveman) to get into the rocket. Weight saving, I guess. It was only the 5th step though. So we sent out for some powerful horse tranquilisers, that did the job. Because it as a fairing, he'll not even know until 40km altitude anyway..... A nice intercept: Not long now Bob: Landed safely! And settled it onto the surface. Not much fuel left though! Bob's staying on the Mun and his transmission crept us over the line: Complete with 0.2 spare! Phew!

Some Science Jr trips to local biomes (grasslands, highlands, desert), 0.75 points each: Highlands slope: A long range version was built too. Not quite orbital speeds, but re-entry is still marginal. First try crashed and burned; second try uses more fuel and does a retro burn: Mun satellite contracts like this: I still have the knack of a Mun intercept: 1st ever crewed mission to surface of the Mun! Its a one way trip though, I only just made it on the fuel (it ran out about 8m above the surface!): 4.8 science points to go.....

This is as good an illustration as any, why you don't need mods.

Please be aware (or learn) how forums work. Forum is NOT chat, and neither is "chat" necessary to solve your problem. Neither are people going to fall over themselves trying to help you. So...to start.....what have you done already to try reach orbit?

I'm not too worried about completion - the finishing line is most definitely in sight now. The interplanetary mission was always going to be the most risky, and now Jeb (and the science) are back, no worries. I've done some quick sums and its completable, the main science-earning areas are: 1. Science Jr results from Kerbin biomes (I'd never even done Grasslands!) (0.75 per biome) 2. "Satellite in Mun orbit" contracts (1 per contract - often 2 contracts can be done with 1 launch/vehicle) 3. Crew reports from Mun high/low/surface (about 5 1st trip; 2.3 subsequent trips - I can do extra Goo readings too). I've worked out the cost per science point. All are 1 launch, so similar there: 1. SJ readings from Kerbin.....................£16,000/science 2. Mun sat contracts.................................£6000/science 3. 1st Mun crew trip..................................£2357/science 3b. subsequent Mun crew trips............£5020/science The 1st Mun crew trip would gather crew report high/low/1 surface biome. The subsequent would only be further science from surface/landings in another biome. It might be possible to do a "hop" to another biome, but I think fuel is limiting. I have 3x astronauts left, and need to do 3 trips; 2 if I do more Mun satellite contracts. Since the contracts are flowing in, I'll focus on them for now, then send a crewed trip last. It is a non-return trip, although of course once The Caveman Challenge is complete, it means I could upgrade stuff and send a rescue mission, if I wanted to. Rescuing off of Mun's surface is a bit easier than rescuing Val!!!

Its easy to do with stock controls, doesn't need an Add On anyway. They're overpowered because KSP is a game, not a real-life simulation.

Its not automatically collected by a MPL, you would run the experiment then choose to keep it, transmit it or process it in the lab.

TBH even orbiting at 2300m/s, for an entire rotation, at 1x is boring.

I think I've seen that bug too - where fuel should transfer, but doesn't. And its all going through (if at all) decouplers and docking ports with crossfeed enabled; and nothing like a heatshield to block it. The only way I solved it was to revert the save to a previous backup - I am guessing the vessel was corrupted in the persistent.sfs file. Sending another would work around the same bug in another way though. ETA just looking at the screenshot closely again - top left, the time is in yellow. This normally means its being timewarped (at 2x?) Controls won't work while timewarping...

Kerbin return burn done, and a correction, looks about right?: Missed though.....quite badly: So, the orbit is changed to mimic Kerbin's, but lower (but within the SOI) so its shorter and in theory I should catch up and intercept: Looking at it this way, makes it appear closer.....not long now Jeb: Yay! An intercept! Its slightly inclined too, so weird accidental Mun/Minmus encounters either: I have loads of fuel left, so its worth making the rendezvous with the "recovery" module easy...so lower it to a nice LKO and also change the inclination to roughly equatorial: I could take on these contracts, transmit the crew reports, then do it again!: Jettisoning the extra fuel tank to mate with the recovery module: And, an uneventful re-entry: Plenty of science earned: However it is STILL not enough - I suspected as much - I am 17.3 short. I know there's an amount of "mopping up" I can do with eg Mun crew reports, Science Jr from other Kerbin biomes, and hopefully some contracts will earn 1 or 2 science points too.

Lack of pilot AND out of comms range means no control. Well, very little. ------------------------- Anyway.....onwards and downwards...to the South: It cost a lot of fuel to make the plane changes but I needed it! Don't want to land in the Midlands AGAIN! So with all the science gathered, its time to go home. It makes sense to rearrange the modules in a pointy straight line, so each can be used while burning then I'll turn backwards and ping it off. Val enquires "why am I 2nd? Shouldn't I be last, with Jeb???": I don't want my brain to explode with complications like trying to eject for Kerbin, coming out of an inclined eccentric Ike orbit, so I'm going to be boring and play it safe. So, Ike --> Duna: Not a bad 1st try 'returning' to Duna orbit:

Just rewind a bit....... When you say "1st stage" - what do we mean? Are you launching from KSC, and if so how much deltaV is in the first stage? The "traditional" amount you might use is ~1000m/s if its SRBs, maybe a bit more say up to 1500-2000m/s if its a liquid fuelled 1st stage. If you're doing a gravity turn to build up horizontal velocity too, that won't get you out of the atmosphere. From memory, my most recent launch with a ~1600m/s 1st stage decoupled it at around 25km. With the other stages on top and a sensible engine in the 1st stage, it might start out at TWR 1.3 and end up with TWR ~3 - certainly not enough to "go crazy" but a nice kick to get uphill. And I've always made my rockets more/less balanced, in terms of side-to-side mass variation. If not cylindrical, then obviously an amount of thought put into the design to balance the weight on each side to match. In a gravity turn, or any launch really, you shouldn't need to be gimballing except when changing direction - and that should be minimal (it doesn't make sense to burn in one direction, change drastically, then burn in another).

On the bottom left it says 0m/s. Sometimes KSP gets the deltaV calculation wrong and misreports it, but........

You'll have to elaborate there - a full tank weighs much more than an empty tank. Thus, putting the tank anywhere other than centre, is not "as close as possible". Putting something else - it could be anything, so long as its staying attached for the landing - would work fine though. I imagine there is a lot of plumbing, electrical wiring, computer modules, other rocketry stuff inside the fuselage, so it will be very easy to rebalance the CoM to the middle even with one side tiled.

How does that help with full/empty different CoM, etc?