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Why was adding aerodynamic stability removed?

Roflcopterkklol
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adinfinitum

adinfinitum

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I'll just add a few more thoughts to this thread. I'm not denying the possibility of making an SSTO in 1.0.2, even with mk3 parts. Squad likes to take inspiration from real world space programs, and there have been multiple different designs for airbreathinh SSTOs. Some of them are long and skinny like the skylon, and others use mostly lifting body shapes, like the X-30. Now, the mk2 makes for good lifting body aircraft, as has been shown in this thread. If you want to make a lifting body much larger, and still have it look like a lifting body, you're going to have to use some sort of structural parts to keep the thickness fairly even throughout. It's a real world concept, which as of right now I don't think is possible to make on a large scale in KSP. I'm a little disappointed in this, but I don't consider it game breaking, just something I hope squad thinks about in the future.

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PotatoOverdose

PotatoOverdose

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Do those wings contain fuel? I'm sheepishly trying to copy your design hahahaha!

UPDATE/EDIT: Managed to get this into LKO. I tried using two Nervas but I end up spending more fuel than I should, so this won't be visiting Mun anytime soon. But with a little tweaking I think I can. Yes, I also added turbojets, if only to get to altitude faster. I like the fact that I keep experimenting on engine combinations a lot now. http://i.imgur.com/yay4WlA.jpg

Yes, those are fuel-containing wings, Big-S Delta Wings and Big-S Strakes to be specific. Your plane looks good, and I think Mun planes are definitely possible. :)

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Roflcopterkklol

Roflcopterkklol

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I'll just add a few more thoughts to this thread. I'm not denying the possibility of making an SSTO in 1.0.2, even with mk3 parts. Squad likes to take inspiration from real world space programs, and there have been multiple different designs for airbreathinh SSTOs. Some of them are long and skinny like the skylon, and others use mostly lifting body shapes, like the X-30. Now, the mk2 makes for good lifting body aircraft, as has been shown in this thread. If you want to make a lifting body much larger, and still have it look like a lifting body, you're going to have to use some sort of structural parts to keep the thickness fairly even throughout. It's a real world concept, which as of right now I don't think is possible to make on a large scale in KSP. I'm a little disappointed in this, but I don't consider it game breaking, just something I hope squad thinks about in the future.

Wow so much inspiration, this craft is my new pride and joy...

Where is the fun in building something like this? This took me less time to build than it did to fly it to orbit....

lokzy0g.jpg

it takes no effort and the skill cap is so low....

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Columbia

Columbia

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heck considering that was the only thing in this game i was good at i think im done with 1.0.2 completely.

I can't believe I'm saying this and please don't take it offensively, but you're not the only one going through this. I was in so much rage after finding that the KR-2Ls have been nerfed so badly (And i don't care if it's an upper stage engine or not!) and even worse after seeing the fairing limitations. I could barely get a tiny probe to orbit. Every one of the rockets that worked flawlessly in 0.90 aerodynamics flipped to their deaths. I backed up 0.90 in so much annoyance because of this.

What have people done? Adapt to it. So what if aerodynamics make rockets flip apart? So what if re-entry heat is severe? So what if fairings can't be an attached on? 1.0 and 1.0.2 have made much of the community rage, but it has it's advantages too. I know it's hard, but it's the only way.

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brienne

brienne

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Squad may have some stuff to tweak (again^^).

But one question: how can you complain about (non) realistic things IG, when you ask for a SSTO able to go back and forth to Duna ?

Really? Can you imagine Nasa Shuttle doing that, any ship ?

Mate, if it s your reference, you need an OP mod.

You can complain, ask for different things to improve gameplay, but don't tell Squad you want realistic stuff.

Edited by brienne
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Roflcopterkklol

Roflcopterkklol

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Squad may have some stuff to tweak (again^^).

But one question: how can you complain about (non) realistic things IG, when you ask for a SSTO able to go back and forth to Duna ?

Really? Can you imagine Nasa Shuttle doing that, any ship ?

Mate, if it s your reference, you need an OP mod.

You can complain, ask for different things to improve gameplay, but don't tell Squad you want realistic stuff.

I was just stating that it would in 0.90, we know the 0.90 souposphere is never coming back, i was actually quite happy with 1.0, its 1.0.2 that is the problem....

1.0 you could work with, now its hot dogs with rapiers or you are going back to kerbin.

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Rune

Rune

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Wow so much inspiration, this craft is my new pride and joy...

Where is the fun in building something like this? This took me less time to build than it did to fly it to orbit....

http://i.imgur.com/lokzy0g.jpg

it takes no effort and the skill cap is so low....

Dude, at least be consistent with yourself. Is it bad because it is easy, or is it bad because it is hard? Maybe it's just bad because it's different??

Rune. Human being are stupidly conservative at times.

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Roflcopterkklol

Roflcopterkklol

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Dude, at least be consistent with yourself. Is it bad because it is easy, or is it bad because it is hard? Maybe it's just bad because it's different??

Rune. Human being are stupidly conservative at times.

Its bad because the drag/soup atmosphere only allows hot dogs with 4 tiny wings to get into orbit, where is a fun in building craft like the hot dog in the OP?

its ugly and easily duplicated so there is no point in sharing it and it is not satisfying to finish building, they also handle horribly as far as maneuverability goes in the atmosphere and look like every other SSTO any random person is currently building.

The soups no fun, admitted its allowed things like this to happen again but still... i thought the goal was more realism not less...

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sal_vager

sal_vager

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Contentious and accusatory thread title removed.

2.3 Forbidden messages

Messages made for the perceived purpose of stirring up and otherwise getting a rise from users (ie, flamebaiting, troll posts);

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Commander Jebidiah

Commander Jebidiah

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Wow so much inspiration, this craft is my new pride and joy...

Where is the fun in building something like this? This took me less time to build than it did to fly it to orbit....

http://i.imgur.com/lokzy0g.jpg

it takes no effort and the skill cap is so low....

Can i just ask what kind of hotdogs you eat? That looks nothing like a hotdog.

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Aanker

Aanker

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Sigh... at least for me, the wing stacking was not for exploitative purposes. Sure, it generated lift, but lift in and of itself is not really useful, especially when it was compensated for even in previous versions by lag and drag.

What I'm asking for, with respect to stacked wings - is not a return to exploitable lift. Stacked wings should either be mergable into larger wings with the same lift and drag characteristics as large wing parts, or have both drag and lift removed. Or the aero model should calculate protection from the airflow by the leading edge of the wing.

Previously, wing parts were used to build fuselage shells around aircraft. This is only marginally possible now. Again, the largest issue is that the aero model bluntly takes wing parts as an attempt to exploit, not create. And again, it doesn't pay attention (either in lift or drag) to part merging and stacking, even in the right direction.

*removed paragraph*

Nevermind, I don't know what's going on with the thread title. The most neutral I can think of is 'spaceplane drag discussion'.

Edited by Aanker
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Roflcopterkklol

Roflcopterkklol

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*removed paragraph*

Nevermind, I don't know what's going on with the thread title. The most neutral I can think of is 'spaceplane drag discussion'.

mods are changing it on me so i made it something less in your face.

he tried to say you cant clip wings inside craft anymore which i already proved to be wrong...

you so can and it still works great.

i have honestly only ever used it abusively in craft like this one, craft like my ones in the OP the added wings are for flight stability and structural integrity, that plane does not fly in an OP fashion because of its wings, it is simply extremely stable because of them

Edited by Roflcopterkklol
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Dodgey

Dodgey

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Its bad because the drag/soup atmosphere only allows hot dogs with 4 tiny wings to get into orbit, where is a fun in building craft like the hot dog in the OP?

....

Stop saying this, the amount of SSTOs that have been provided to you that do not fit this definition is absurd, I have seen all types of SSTOs in these threads from tiny micro ones to airliner sized ones, ones that don't use rapiers at all and ones that use a combination.

Also you understand that fun is an extremely subjective term right? As in it might not be fun to you but to others it might be the best part of the game. The same applies to words like ugly, stupid and no point.

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adinfinitum

adinfinitum

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Hey Roflcopter, my suggestion for the thread title would simply be "Wings can no longer be used as style parts".

The issue seems to be that we are stuck with the fuselage cross sections we are given, without being able to use wings anymore to change how it looks. The mk2 parts are sleek and streamlined, and the mk3 parts are, well, pretty much sausage shaped. If I want to make a hypersonic aircraft with the capacity of the mk3, but the flat lifting body look of the mk2 parts, I would need some sort of style part to change how it looks.

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