[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.13.0 "Забытый" 13/Aug/2023)

[Rory Yammomoto]

4 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Oh my child... do you not know?

How would that engine be balanced? That seems overpowered. But since the engines are (hopefully) balanced realistically relative to eachother (ie if one engine is more powerful than another in real life, it will be in BDB) then if there is such an engine it will make it in. 

It wouldn't, true.

Also, I didn't think to look at the roadmap, but it has some AMAZING things on it. Take your time, man.

 

EDIT: My I make a request?

Atlas II parts. the Parts currently in the game cannot lift an atlas II payload (4.55 tons, assuming that real life is exactly 1.648x bigger) without some crazy-horse Idea.

The article where I got this from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_II

 

ANOTHER EDIT: Got one. Really hard though, and it just barely gets to space.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Rory Yammomoto

[CobaltWolf]

7 hours ago, Rory Yammomoto said:

EDIT: My I make a request?

Atlas II parts. the Parts currently in the game cannot lift an atlas II payload (4.55 tons, assuming that real life is exactly 1.648x bigger) without some crazy-horse Idea.

The article where I got this from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_II

ANOTHER EDIT: Got one. Really hard though, and it just barely gets to space.

@Jso thots?

[VenomousRequiem]

7 hours ago, Rory Yammomoto said:

EDIT: My I make a request?

Atlas II parts. the Parts currently in the game cannot lift an atlas II payload (4.55 tons, assuming that real life is exactly 1.648x bigger) without some crazy-horse Idea.

The article where I got this from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_II

 

ANOTHER EDIT: Got one. Really hard though, and it just barely gets to space.

What would that need? Upgraded engines, a longer tank? I mean, it's essentially the same rocket, just a bigger number after "Atlas".

[RA3236]

Well, I am getting around to installing this, although is this mod compatible with Antenna Range? Thanks.

[RA3236]

Just checking: is the latest dev on the main Github page (http://github.com/CobaltWolf/Bluedog-Design-Bureau) or the releases page (https://github.com/CobaltWolf/Bluedog-Design-Bureau/releases/latest)?

[Jso]

18 hours ago, Rory Yammomoto said:

EDIT: My I make a request?

Atlas II parts. the Parts currently in the game cannot lift an atlas II payload (4.55 tons, assuming that real life is exactly 1.648x bigger) without some crazy-horse Idea.

The article where I got this from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_II

 

ANOTHER EDIT: Got one. Really hard though, and it just barely gets to space.

I'm planning on revisiting the Atlas engines. The lack of a stock cryogenic fuel makes Centaur very heavy so that complicates things a little.

Mass at this scale runs about 20-25% depending on the model. I try to shoot for 50% of real with payloads to allow for heavy KSP parts. Really, anything you can get off the launch pad on teeny-tiny Kerbin will probably make orbit with these rockets.

I build an Atlas II with a twin engine Centaur using the 1100 and two 400 tanks, on top of the Atlas stage with the usual bottom setup minus the verniers, two 1200's and a 600 tank. That setup won't lift much, but if you strip the Centaur down to just the 1100 tank you should be able to get about 3.5 tons up. You need to hang on to the boosters until the big tank is nearly dry to get your apoapsis up as high as you can. The sustainer can run for about a minute and a half on just the fuel in the little adapter tank at the bottom.

[Rory Yammomoto]

I actually used the Prometheus Tanks- The largest Prometheus 1.875 tank, the 4000, plus an Inon 400. I re engined it as well, the engines were now the Chryslus (?) Polaris engines on the skirt, with the Muo's own Buzzard on the inside, along with Sapphire boosters. staging the skirt when the TWR reaches exactly  2.75 can get 4.55 tons of ore, along with a 2 engined Inon and a 2.5M fairing large enough to hold aid ore, to an Ap of about 75 Km.

P.S: what scale did you use to make the rockets? I would like to calculate what the Atlas II should be able to do, what the engines should put out, etc, I got the original numbers from the tank sizes.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Rory Yammomoto

[CobaltWolf]

46 minutes ago, Rory Yammomoto said:

I actually used the Prometheus Tanks- The largest Prometheus 1.875 tank, the 4000, plus an Inon 400. I re engined it as well, the engines were now the Chryslus (?) Polaris engines on the skirt, with the Muo's own Buzzard on the inside, along with Sapphire boosters. staging the skirt when the TWR reaches exactly  2.75 can get 4.55 tons of ore, along with a 2 engined Inon and a 2.5M fairing large enough to hold aid ore, to an Ap of about 75 Km.

Perhaps, however, you could make a new fuel, or, as I have suggested, make uprated Atlas engines later on in the tech tree- before the Muo-2.5, but after the original Muo.

 

P.S: what scale did you use to make the rockets? I would like to calculate what the Atlas II should be able to do, what the engines should put out, etc, I got the original numbers from the tank sizes.

 

 

TWR of 2.75? Jeez that's high. And the Sapphires are GEM-60s for a Delta IV. That's huge.

I am not making a new fuel. That's beyond the scope of the mod. I would consider making the RS56 engines for Atlas II if it is too much of a difference in performance.

Rockets in BDB are somewhere around 62.5%-64% of IRL scale.

7 hours ago, RA3236 said:

Well, I am getting around to installing this, although is this mod compatible with Antenna Range? Thanks.

7 hours ago, RA3236 said:

Just checking: is the latest dev on the main Github page (http://github.com/CobaltWolf/Bluedog-Design-Bureau) or the releases page (https://github.com/CobaltWolf/Bluedog-Design-Bureau/releases/latest)?

No, I don't have Antenna Range configs. If you wanted to write them I'd appreciate it.  

The latest dev is downloaded by just downloading the zip of the Github in the first link you posted.

[Rory Yammomoto]

@CobaltWolf It's what it takes to get to space the way I fly-I expect it to go really fast. I can see why the atlas was redesigned to its current form. This is really difficult to pull off.
 

Edited April 27, 2016 by Rory Yammomoto

[CobaltWolf]

2 hours ago, Rory Yammomoto said:

@CobaltWolf It's what it takes to get to space the way I fly-I expect it to go really fast. 

I can see why the atlas was redesigned to its current form. This is really difficult to pull off.

 

Perhaps you're not flying it correctly then? 

[blorgon]

Can I pull just the science parts and sciencedefs.cfg from the mod? Are there any other dependencies for those parts?

[CobaltWolf]

5 minutes ago, blorgon said:

Can I pull just the science parts and sciencedefs.cfg from the mod? Are there any other dependencies for those parts?

You need to have the included DmagicScienceAnimate folder as well. I also recommend keeping the ScienceDefs compatibility file from the compatibility folder, which makes BDB experiments flip over to their equivalent DMagic Orbital Science and/or FASA experiments if either of those mods are installed. But yes, you can delete all the other folders in the 'parts' folder, as well as the flags and agencies folder. That just leaves the science parts.

[blorgon]

2 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

You need to have the included DmagicScienceAnimate folder as well. I also recommend keeping the ScienceDefs compatibility file from the compatibility folder, which makes BDB experiments flip over to their equivalent DMagic Orbital Science and/or FASA experiments if either of those mods are installed. But yes, you can delete all the other folders in the 'parts' folder, as well as the flags and agencies folder. That just leaves the science parts.

Much appreciated.

[Rory Yammomoto]

17 hours ago, VenomousRequiem said:

What would that need? Upgraded engines, a longer tank? I mean, it's essentially the same rocket, just a bigger number after "Atlas".

I have the numbers for uprated engines. I made the names myself (that's why they are terrible)

Outer Skirt Engines: 2 KS-56 "Super Buzzard" engines. Isp 263-299, 669 856.00 N each. (669.856 KN)

Sustainer engine: 1 KS-56 "super Buzzard-V" engines. Isp 220-316, 247 040.00 N (247.04 KN)

The tank is trivial- If instructions for it get put in the manual, just instruct players to use a Prometheus II-4000 tank. It wasn't meant for it, yes, but the tank looks fine with the skirt, so it should be OK. 

 

Edited April 27, 2016 by Rory Yammomoto

[CobaltWolf]

4 minutes ago, Rory Yammomoto said:

I have the numbers for uprated engines. I made the names myself (that's why they are terrible)

Outer Skirt Engines: 2 KS-56 "Super Buzzard" engines. Isp 263-299, 669 856.00 N each. (669.856 KN)

Sustainer engine: 1 KS-56 "super Buzzard-V" engines. Isp 220-316, 247 040.00 N (247.04 KN)

 

Wat. That sounds WAY too high. Are you saying that each of the booster engines should have the same thrust as a duel engine Prometheus first stage? Remember, while diameter changes linearly, things like the volume and mass change exponentially (cubically?). ie a 2x2 square's area is 4, but doubling the size to a 4x4 square results in an area of 16, etc. I think you're getting your expected performance FAR too high. Atlas II is a capable rocket, but not THAT capable. Remember it was used for earth orbital operations, while things like probes were launched from Titan IVs or Shuttles.

Taking the real life numbers - 

A single booster engine on an Atlas-Centaur SLV-3C produced  948 kN, vs 1046.8 kN from the boosters on Atlas IIA. A 10.4% increase in thrust.

Similarly, the sustainer on the SLV-3C produced 386.4 kN, vs...  386.4 kN on the Atlas IIA. A 0% increase in thrust. 

Numbers pulled from Astronautix.

[blorgon]

59 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

You need to have the included DmagicScienceAnimate folder as well. I also recommend keeping the ScienceDefs compatibility file from the compatibility folder, which makes BDB experiments flip over to their equivalent DMagic Orbital Science and/or FASA experiments if either of those mods are installed. But yes, you can delete all the other folders in the 'parts' folder, as well as the flags and agencies folder. That just leaves the science parts.

I followed your instructions, but I'm unable to activate any of the parts. I realize I'm not really entitled to support since I'm messing with the file structure of your mod, but any insight would be appreciated.

[CobaltWolf]

54 minutes ago, blorgon said:

I followed your instructions, but I'm unable to activate any of the parts. I realize I'm not really entitled to support since I'm messing with the file structure of your mod, but any insight would be appreciated.

The mod is meant to be somewhat modular, I understand that many people don't want all the parts.

It sounds like you've run into an issue that is fairly common at the moment since we're in a bit of a bad place. If you're on 1.1 you have to download the latest version of DMagic Science Animate and overwrite the version that is currently included. 

EDIT: Also, another request for bugs in the current dev build of the mod. Me and @VenomousRequiem are going to try and take care of the tags tonight (no stream, too distracting ) but if nobody has any other complaints then once that I done I will attempt to get a release candidate out for final testing.

 

Edited April 27, 2016 by CobaltWolf

[Rory Yammomoto]

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

Wat. That sounds WAY too high. Are you saying that each of the booster engines should have the same thrust as a duel engine Prometheus first stage? Remember, while diameter changes linearly, things like the volume and mass change exponentially (cubically?). ie a 2x2 square's area is 4, but doubling the size to a 4x4 square results in an area of 16, etc. I think you're getting your expected performance FAR too high. Atlas II is a capable rocket, but not THAT capable. Remember it was used for earth orbital operations, while things like probes were launched from Titan IVs or Shuttles.

Taking the real life numbers - 

A single booster engine on an Atlas-Centaur SLV-3C produced  948 kN, vs 1046.8 kN from the boosters on Atlas IIA. A 10.4% increase in thrust.

Similarly, the sustainer on the SLV-3C produced 386.4 kN, vs...  386.4 kN on the Atlas IIA. A 0% increase in thrust. 

Numbers pulled from Astronautix.

Oh. I just simply multiplied the thrusts by the scale factor. My mistake!

[Jso]

27 minutes ago, Rory Yammomoto said:

Oh. I just simply multiplied the thrusts by the scale factor. My mistake!

Yeah, you want to scale the thrust by mass. The scale factor you're looking for is KSP Gross Mass divided by Real Gross Mass. The real one has a TWR of 1.17. It's not a sidewinder missile.

[CobaltWolf]

Four hours of writing part tags makes Cobalt need a little drinky 

[VenomousRequiem]

Just now, CobaltWolf said:

Four hours of writing part tags makes Cobalt need a little drinky 

Amen... I hope you guys appreciate such a large amount of work for something so little!

[CobaltWolf]

Bluedog Design Bureau v0.10.5 "Krikkit!" is now available for prerelease on Github. Please test for bugs.

Note that the MOL parts are not included in this release. It is merely to get 1.1 compatibility out the door as the current work was happening too slowly.

[captainradish]

It's a good collection of parts, don't get me wrong. However, it's all thrown at you at the same time. Any way we can get this pack a bit more spread out? 

It's also possible that due to the sheer number of parts it's simply me getting overloaded due to not paying attention to the tech tree, so if they are already distributed well, you can ignore me.

[VenomousRequiem]

4 minutes ago, captainradish said:

It's a good collection of parts, don't get me wrong. However, it's all thrown at you at the same time. Any way we can get this pack a bit more spread out? 

It's also possible that due to the sheer number of parts it's simply me getting overloaded due to not paying attention to the tech tree, so if they are already distributed well, you can ignore me.

It kinda seems like the mod won't be spread to different packs (like i think you mean) for a good minute, and yes, the tech tree is as spread out and balanced as possible. Cobalt only ever plays in career.

 

[CobaltWolf]

7 hours ago, captainradish said:

It's a good collection of parts, don't get me wrong. However, it's all thrown at you at the same time. Any way we can get this pack a bit more spread out? 

It's also possible that due to the sheer number of parts it's simply me getting overloaded due to not paying attention to the tech tree, so if they are already distributed well, you can ignore me.

7 hours ago, VenomousRequiem said:

It kinda seems like the mod won't be spread to different packs (like i think you mean) for a good minute, and yes, the tech tree is as spread out and balanced as possible. Cobalt only ever plays in career.

Yeah, I've tried my best to spread them out. I wanted to get basic 1.1 compatibility rolled out. Next release will hopefully be divided into different packs, I currently have a list of 10 (!) for the mod to be divided into.