The Saga of Emiko Station - Complete

[Jeb!]

On ‎4‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 5:26 PM, Just Jim said:

Hmmmm, I haven't shown a raptor launch, have I?  I can fit one into the next chapter I think.  Once things are fixed, that it.

Ok, thanks!

Just because I was curious, I built your (@Just Jim) Raptor and stuck it on top of 12 SRBs. With an obvious result. lol XD I will be interested in seeing how you did it.

I'm building a huge starship to go to Jool, and I'm looking for a way to actually get it into space. It has 4 of the wings you used on the Raptor.  I can't really picture how you would "drag" the Raptor, but I guess it will make sense when I see it.

[max_creative]

I got a raptor-ish thing to orbit once. It has two of the big wings, but the are angled back. A lot. I had to drag it using 14 SRBs and 4 mammoths though. I think it was a slightly overpowered LV though.

[Jarin]

Well, here's hoping everything goes smoothly with the new release.

[max_creative]

WHOOOO HOOOOOO 1.1!!!!!!!!!

[Just Jim]

3 hours ago, Jarin said:

Well, here's hoping everything goes smoothly with the new release.

 

I hope it goes OK...  after the asteroid bug, I'm afraid of doing anything for fear of breaking my game again, and I'm afraid of reverting it for the same reason.

[Jarin]

3 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

 

I hope it goes OK...  after the asteroid bug, I'm afraid of doing anything for fear of breaking my game again, and I'm afraid of reverting it for the same reason.

Jeb sez: MOAR BOOSTE BACKUPS!

[Jeb!]

YES FINALLY 1.1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't worry I won't get too excited...

It's 11 oclock pm and I'm gonna download it... so yeah...

Maybe now I won't have to spend 3 hours trying to keep a spaceplane from flopping around like spaghetti... or maybe I'm just hoping too much lol

@Just Jim, just a suggestion, if you haven't already, you should also make backups externally on hard disks and put them somewhere safe. Never trust your computer. If something really bad happens to you computer you could potentially lose all the backups on it. (Don't ask me how I know this lol)

Spoiler

There's a reason I had to buy KSP twice... XD

 We'd hate for you to lose anything after all your work!

Edited April 20, 2016 by Jeb!

[Geschosskopf]

1 hour ago, Jeb! said:

YES FINALLY 1.1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Geez, unless the latest build fixed BEAUCOUP issues with wheels, legs, asteroids, UI, and many other things, which the changelog doesn't mention at all, I wouldn't be celebrating.....

[Just Jim]

9 hours ago, Jeb! said:

 

@Just Jim, just a suggestion, if you haven't already, you should also make backups externally on hard disks and put them somewhere safe. Never trust your computer. If something really bad happens to you computer you could potentially lose all the backups on it. (Don't ask me how I know this lol)

  Reveal hidden contents

There's a reason I had to buy KSP twice... XD

 We'd hate for you to lose anything after all your work!

I've been saving my games onto a memory stick for that very reason.  Working on a long term solution right now.

 

9 hours ago, Jeb! said:

YES FINALLY 1.1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So it's officially been released?

[Choctofliatrio2.0]

1 hour ago, Just Jim said:

I've been saving my games onto a memory stick for that very reason.  Working on a long term solution right now.

 

So it's officially been released?

Beats me :/ Unless it released yesterday or today, or if it was released when I played it 2 days ago and 1.1 is just a terribly boring and unnoticible update, I wouldn't know.

[Jeb!]

9 hours ago, Just Jim said:

So it's officially been released?

Yes! Last evening it came out for download on www.kerbalspaceprogram.com. For non-Steam users, the people who bought the re-downloadable game from KSP, all you have to do is sign into your KSP account, then re-download KSP, which is now default set to 1.1.

17 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

Geez, unless the latest build fixed BEAUCOUP issues with wheels, legs, asteroids, UI, and many other things, which the changelog doesn't mention at all, I wouldn't be celebrating....

1.1 crashed on me before I could even fly anything. Looks like a few more bugs we'll have to work around.

I was just reading the new Readme, and it says:

WARNING: It's very likely that parts, ships and/or saves created on previous versions will be incompatible with the latest release. Although we try to preserve saved data as much as we can during development, it is impossible to ensure backward-compatibility on every update, especially with modded installs, so please keep this in mind.

I guess this means I might be very angry when I copy over my 1.0.5 persistence file...

But overall, I'd say the update is pretty substantial. Definitely increased framerate and performance, that's something we can all be happy about!

 

 

8 hours ago, Choctofliatrio2.0 said:

Beats me :/ Unless it released yesterday or today, or if it was released when I played it 2 days ago and 1.1 is just a terribly boring and unnoticible update, I wouldn't know.

Trust me, it's VERY noticeable! Loading screen is different, KSC menu different, KSPedia, textures are different, VAB and SPH textures spruced up a bit, a new probe core, giant landing gear, 10 meter inflatable heat shield, LESS LAG! (my favorite!)

Sorry this isn't really on topic, just listing a few things for people who don't know yet. I'm still kind of excited in case you didn't notice.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Jeb!

[Just Jim]

47 minutes ago, Jeb! said:

Yes! Last evening it came out for download on www.kerbalspaceprogram.com. For non-Steam users, the people who bought the re-downloadable game from KSP, all you have to do is sign into your KSP account, then re-download KSP, which is now default set to 1.1.

1.1 crashed on me before I could even fly anything. Looks like a few more bugs we'll have to work around.

I was just reading the new Readme, and it says: I guess this means I might be very angry when I copy over my 1.0.5 persistence file...

WARNING: It's very likely that parts, ships and/or saves created on previous versions will be incompatible with the latest release. Although we try to preserve saved data as much as we can during development, it is impossible to ensure backward-compatibility on every update, especially with modded installs, so please keep this in mind.

I guess this means I might be very angry when I copy over my 1.0.5 persistence file...

But overall, I'd say the update is pretty substantial. Definitely increased framerate and performance, that's something we can all be happy about!

Ahhh, I understand now.

And that's the same warning we've been getting all along in the steam pre-release.  It's still buggy, but getting better.  This is why I'm afraid to do much of anything until they iron things out.  At least in my career game.

[Geschosskopf]

1 hour ago, Jeb! said:

I guess this means I might be very angry when I copy over my 1.0.5 persistence file...

 

13 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

Ahhh, I understand now.

And that's the same warning we've been getting all along in the steam pre-release.  It's still buggy, but getting better.  This is why I'm afraid to do much of anything until they iron things out.  At least in my career game.

Well, stock games will have the fewest problems coming over.  The main changes to parts were to the mechanics of wheels and legs, and they included some mechanism to update those types of parts from 1.0.5 to 1.1.  I just don't have a stock 1.0.5 game to test this myself so I can't tell you.   However, there are still plenty of 1.1 issues with wheels and legs so even if the update goes successfully, you'll then have those problems.  I would be VERY, VERY careful with any saves having landed ships or bases, especially if they're on the LT-2 legs which seem the most problematic.

On top of this, there are, several potential problems from model changes to pre-existing parts.  The small gear bay now is bulbous like the medium and large versions, while the length of the strut has stayed the same, so these now stand taller than before.  The LT-2 lander leg seems very slightly scaled down from its prior size so landers sit lower.  The Mk2 inline cockpit went from side-by-side seating with 1 hatch top center to tandem seating with 2 hatches at the sides.  Depending on what you'd radially attached to it, those hatches might be blocked and ladders based on the old hatch location might now be out of position for the new.

As usual, what I recommend doing (and hopefully you did this already) was to copy your 1.0.5 installation, mods and all, to a completely separate folder where it will be safe from updates.  Then uninstall your main game, start over from a clean 1.1 install, and do some testing, adding mods as they become available.

Mods are a whole 'nother story, though.  As usual, there will be some modders who have lost time for or interest in KSP, or who get frustrated trying to keep up with rapidfire hotfixes, so their mods die.  Those who update their mods might well introduce major changes while they're at it, which can potentially be just as game-breaking as Squad changing parts around.

[Choctofliatrio2.0]

So if I have steam is it automatically downloaded?

[Andem]

2 hours ago, Just Jim said:

Ahhh, I understand now.

And that's the same warning we've been getting all along in the steam pre-release.  It's still buggy, but getting better.  This is why I'm afraid to do much of anything until they iron things out.  At least in my career game.

I just have to tell you not to switch to any of your rovers, spaceplanes, or landers/bases. 1.1 will Insta-kill them with the new (incomplete, if I might add) suspension/wheel phisics... Selene Base will be remembred, as well as the three kerbonauts who died there. Seriously, It's a shame I didn't ge any screenshots of the evacuation. 27 KERBALS had to evac. 27.

[Geschosskopf]

16 minutes ago, Choctofliatrio2.0 said:

So if I have steam is it automatically downloaded?

Maybe...  You can check by right-clicking on the Library tab and selecting Downloads (last thing on list).  If it shows KSP as ready to play, then yeah, it's already done.  That could happen if you have KSP set to automatically update, which is the default for all games you buy on Steam.

To change this, right-click on the name of any game in your Library and choose "Properites" (last thing on list).  This has an "Updates" tab.  You can change this to "only update when I play it".  With this setting, the download will appear queued in the Library/Download page and you'll get a message saying that on the bottom of the Lirbrary screen.  You can tell it not to download and keep on playing the old version, but sooner or later it'll sneak in and download anyway.  I think this is so everybody doing MP games stay on the same version.

Bottom line:  It's pretty much impossible to keep Steam from updating games you continue to try to play in old versions.  The only updates you can really skip are for games you don't actually play, so the updates will stay queued forever.

Therefore, if you want to keep playing an old version of KSP and you have Steam, what you do is copy the entire KSP installation from the Steam folder to some other place on your HD, then launch the KSP.exe file from that folder, not through Steam.  KSP has no DRM so you can do this as often as you want.  This is what allows people to keep playing ancient versions of the game today.

So, if you've already got 1.1 through Steam, and you hadn't already made a copy of your 1.0.5 installation, you're stuck with 1.1.  Going forward, however, once you get well along in a 1.1 game, keep an ear out for news of pending updates.  When that happens, make a copy and play that, letting the version in Steam update automatically.

[Jeb!]

1 hour ago, Geschosskopf said:

Therefore, if you want to keep playing an old version of KSP and you have Steam, what you do is copy the entire KSP installation from the Steam folder to some other place on your HD, then launch the KSP.exe file from that folder, not through Steam.

Just a friendly caution: Be careful if you do this guys. This is partially how I permanently lost the ability to update my Steam KSP install. Long story short, don't move any files, only copy. I ended up buying KSP all over again after wasting a whole day trying to get the Steam key back from Steam "Support"

(and I use the term "Support" very loosely) lol

1 hour ago, Andem said:

I just have to tell you not to switch to any of your rovers, spaceplanes, or landers/bases. 1.1 will Insta-kill them with the new (incomplete, if I might add) suspension/wheel phisics...

 

3 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

I would be VERY, VERY careful with any saves having landed ships or bases, especially if they're on the LT-2 legs which seem the most problematic.

Looks like I'm gonna be forced to test these theories... I have a pretty big base on Minmus. With like 30 LT-2 legs. I'll let you guys know how this turns out so we can spare as many Kerbs as possible... Hold your breath Bill!  Don't worry, if you die, I still have a backup lol!

Edited April 20, 2016 by Jeb!

[Geschosskopf]

7 minutes ago, Jeb! said:

Just a friendly caution: Be careful if you do this guys. This is partially how I permanently lost the ability to update my Steam KSP install. Long story short, don't move any files, only copy. I ended up buying KSP all over again after wasting a whole day trying to get the Steam key back from Steam "Support"

But on the bright side, Squad got more money to make us more stuff, so thanks 

Seriously, though, amen to the above.  COPY ONLY, do NOT MOVE.  Even though KSP itself has no DRM, Steam does.

 

7 minutes ago, Jeb! said:

Looks like I'm gonna be forced to test these theories... I have a pretty big base on Minmus. With like 30 LT-2 legs.

Yeah, I'd DEFINITELY test that before totally committing to 1.1.  The last pre-release that came out a mere 8 hours (at most) before the official release had finally solved the issue of the LT-2 legs exploding or falling through the planet on physics load but introduced the new problem of them sliding uphill (on Kerbin) and downhill (on Mun).  On Minmus flats, you might be OK, but elsewhere, I'd expect considerably movement.

[Jeb!]

Alrighty, so here's a report on my test of 1.0.5 bases and LT-2 landing legs on v1.1. Hopefully this will help anyone in transitioning to v1.1.

Loaded up my Minmus base, and at first, everything was perfect. Bill and Nedlock had big smiles on their faces. Then a bunch of huge explosions appeared in the distance, from spacecraft debris on the ground that suddenly flew up in the air when the physics cut in. But that's ok, as long as it doesn't do that with spaceships. I noticed after a few minutes that the LT-2 legs were sunken into the ground a little, and my base was rotating slowly parallel to the ground. This is on a perfectly flat area, the Great Flats. When the base touched anything else while rotating, that part of the base eventually exploded. I had a hunch, and undocked the module on the end that was rotating. The rotation stopped. Also, my flags fell down and then flew in the air.

Ok, so a summary, when transitioning 1.0.5 ground bases into 1.1:

-Large things without legs saved on the ground may fly up

-LT-2 legs sink slightly into the ground

-Bases with LT-2 legs may rotate, but can be fixed by undocking certain segments.

-Jebediah Kerman likes the new update, indicated by the huge grin on his face*

*Assuming the overuse of that grin doesn't nullify the relevance of it

 

Hope this helps, -Jeb!

Edited April 20, 2016 by Jeb!

[Geschosskopf]

3 hours ago, Jeb! said:

Loaded up my Minmus base, and at first, everything was perfect. Bill and Nedlock had big smiles on their faces. Then a bunch of huge explosions appeared in the distance, from spacecraft debris on the ground that suddenly flew up in the air when the physics cut in. But that's ok, as long as it doesn't do that with spaceships. I noticed after a few minutes that the LT-2 legs were sunken into the ground a little, and my base was rotating slowly parallel to the ground. This is on a perfectly flat area, the Great Flats. When the base touched anything else while rotating, that part of the base eventually exploded. I had a hunch, and undocked the module on the end that was rotating. The rotation stopped. Also, my flags fell down and then flew in the air.

That's about my experience with official 1.1.  Landed stuff on LT-2 legs slides.  If the ground is flat, it rotates.  If the ground is sloped it slides up or down the hill depending on the strength of local gravity (the stronger the gravity, the more likely to slide uphill)..  Meanwhile EVA Kerbals slide the opposite direction.  The smaller legs seem OK but who uses them except for probe landers the success or failure of which won't make or break your space program?

Wheels IMHO are better off in stock 1.1 than lander legs.  They'll still take some getting used to, however.  HIGHLY recommended to not have 4-wheel steering when you're going long distances at high speed in mostly a straight line.  The exception is the mondo wheels such as used by the Chariots, which need steering on all wheels to be able turn at all.  And BTW, those are still quite bugged in that steering commands increase forward speed.  If you repeatedly tap opposite steering keys, you can get such a rover moving WELL over 100m'/s, without power requirements increasing.  Exploit at your own risk.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Geschosskopf

[Just Jim]

OK, I promised...

Brief Interlude:
Raptor Launch

 

After the disappearance of the twins on Ike, Gene immediately ordered the remaining monoliths be explored for any possible clues as to their whereabouts.  On Kerbin, expeditions were organized, and a new explorer Raptor was launched to search the Mun and Minmus.  This variant was a slightly smaller one seat version that swapped out the normal passenger section for a full range of science equipment, and would be piloted by Piper Kerman exclusively.

And on dawn of the third day of Gem and Theo's disappearance, the explorer raptor was remotely launched.

With a ground shaking roar the mighty delivery system dragged the Raptor into the sky while all of KASA watched in amazement.  This was not the first Raptor KASA had launched, but they never failed to draw a crowd, and this morning was no exception.

Higher and higher the monster rose, and soon the first stages were separating with no complications.

Now the great rockets began to pick up speed and rip thru the atmosphere with a series of deafening sonic booms.

And in just minutes, the Raptor was in the upper atmosphere and moving into position to circularize into orbit.

Once the mighty lower stages were exhausted, the powerful mainsail engines took over and continued to circularize the Raptors orbit with ease.

After orbit was achieved, the mainsail stages, along with the support pylon, were ejected, and the new explorer Raptor unfurled it's solar panels and antenna and waited patiently for Piper to rendezvous with it the following day.

 

The Saga of Emiko Station is far, far from over

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2016 by Just Jim

[Jeb!]

17 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

Brief Interlude:
Raptor Launch

Thanks for showing us this! I just had an AHA moment. With all those strut connectors holding everything firmly together like THAT, you can't go wrong! I'm kinda stuck in a rut of making narrow rockets and ascent stages, but this is definitely a great alternative design.

[max_creative]

That's how you do it! I would drag it behind the rocket instead, but that probably works better.

[Just Jim]

10 hours ago, Jeb! said:

Thanks for showing us this! I just had an AHA moment. With all those strut connectors holding everything firmly together like THAT, you can't go wrong! I'm kinda stuck in a rut of making narrow rockets and ascent stages, but this is definitely a great alternative design.

 

9 hours ago, max_creative said:

That's how you do it! I would drag it behind the rocket instead, but that probably works better.

 

Yup, that's how it's done. 
I wasn't really planning on writing that up last night, I just wanted to make sure it still worked. 
But I remembered y'all wanted to see one launched, so I took screenshots this time.

There's a couple things to remember if you try to make one.  First, like Jeb noticed, add a lot of struts to hold everything together.  That central "tail" is just to hold struts, and ejected with the last stage.
Second, and this is the most important, go very slow!!!  I know what I wrote in the story, ignore it!  Once this beast gets off the pad, begin to throttle back until it's just barely accelerating.  Keep it under 250-300m/s for the first 10,000 meters or it will likely flip.  And do not try any kind of gravity turn until at least 15,000-20,000 or better.  Just keep going straight up, or the drag will flip it.  Once you're into the upper atmosphere then you can increase the speed and begin to turn.

It's not the easiest to fly, and you'll need to pay attention to it the whole way up.  Even after doing this a dozen times I still have them flip now and then for some unknown reason.  Any sudden moves will tear it apart.  Oh, and do NOT use the Z or X key to throttle it, or you'll rip the wings off.  Use the Shift and Ctrl keys to gently throttle it up and down only! 

Lastly, it's super expensive (500,000+).   Keep this in mind if you're playing a career game.

I'm going to try and land this today, but given the bugs with the landing gear, I'm not sure what's going to happen.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Just Jim

[SpaceplaneAddict]

You know, I would have been stumped trying to launch your Raptor @Just Jim, becausei usually resort to launching winged payloads Buran style.