Overengineer1

[1.0.5] GravityTurn version 1.3.1 - Automated Efficient Launches (1.1 pre-release available)

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I wouldn't expect launch data for a 100k launch to be learned into the launch data for an 80k launch.  They are different launches, for different purposes.

Really, most of the settings in this I'm fine with permuting to find the 'best' value - but altitude and inclination aren't about the 'best' value, they are where I want the ship to be at the end.  Yeah, a 80k launch to 0 degree inclination is the most efficient launch, but if I needed that satellite in polar orbit at 250k, that launch didn't help me much.  Let us lock the required values for those and have the mod find the most efficient launch for the requirements.

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On 1/30/2016 at 8:32 PM, mcirish3 said:

Already in the mod.  It is called Inclination.  Set it = 90o

Okay I tried this but the launch turn is always the same each time.

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1 hour ago, Geoclasm said:

Okay I tried this but the launch turn is always the same each time.

?? are you saying if you change the inclination number to 90o it launches the rocket and gravity turn to the east instead of to the north??  Screenshots of this? or use the gameframer mod to document.

Edited by mcirish3

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On 1/21/2016 at 7:43 AM, Snarfster said:

Love this mod. Just one suggestion, add a toggle to use physics time warp during coast to orbit. :) 

This would be amazing. Or a way to make it get out of the atmosphere before coasting. 15 minutes of tiny pulses gets tedious :(

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3 hours ago, mcirish3 said:

?? are you saying if you change the inclination number to 90o it launches the rocket and gravity turn to the east instead of to the north??  Screenshots of this? or use the gameframer mod to document.

nvm it works... i was using other numbers. Thanks.

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5 minutes ago, Geoclasm said:

nvm it works... i was using other numbers. Thanks.

It is ok Homer we all do it.  

 

 

 

Shhh ...I know we don't all do it but I don't want him to feel bad.

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3 hours ago, holyemd said:

This would be amazing. Or a way to make it get out of the atmosphere before coasting. 15 minutes of tiny pulses gets tedious :(

I'm phys-warping to 4X once the AP first reaches 80km (or whatever your desired orbit it) and it does MECO, it does its maintenance pulses just fine at 4X, automatically cuts to 1X at 70km, then auto-rewarps if you have MJ.  It would be handy if there was an auto-warp option to automate the atmospheric part, but it's certainly not 15 minutes when warped.  @holyemd is phys-warp not working for you?

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On 1/2/2016 at 9:35 AM, DStaal said:

I wouldn't expect launch data for a 100k launch to be learned into the launch data for an 80k launch.  They are different launches, for different purposes.

Really, most of the settings in this I'm fine with permuting to find the 'best' value - but altitude and inclination aren't about the 'best' value, they are where I want the ship to be at the end.  Yeah, a 80k launch to 0 degree inclination is the most efficient launch, but if I needed that satellite in polar orbit at 250k, that launch didn't help me much.  Let us lock the required values for those and have the mod find the most efficient launch for the requirements.

My point exactly.. my job is to decide where I want the ship to finish up, GT's job is to get it there.. not to insist I'm doing it wrong.

Edited by JAFO

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I really love this mod. Good work. I do have a small issue with this though. Can you please include a feature so that gravity turn can respect action group launches? It take about 3 or 4 action groups to launch certain rockets.

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On 2/1/2016 at 4:35 PM, DStaal said:

I wouldn't expect launch data for a 100k launch to be learned into the launch data for an 80k launch.  They are different launches, for different purposes.

Really, most of the settings in this I'm fine with permuting to find the 'best' value - but altitude and inclination aren't about the 'best' value, they are where I want the ship to be at the end.  Yeah, a 80k launch to 0 degree inclination is the most efficient launch, but if I needed that satellite in polar orbit at 250k, that launch didn't help me much.  Let us lock the required values for those and have the mod find the most efficient launch for the requirements.

 

On 2/2/2016 at 2:08 AM, JAFO said:

My point exactly.. my job is to decide where I want the ship to finish up, GT's job is to get it there.. not to insist I'm doing it wrong.

Please calm down.  GT is a great mod and is a drastic improvement to what is otherwise available.  I am sure you guys did not mean it but you come off sounding a bit demanding.  Overengineer1 made this mod for himself and decided to share it with us.  He can take it away just as easily and if the users are demanding or overbearing then he could do just that.  That is not to say, don't bring up issues concerns Ideas and suggestions, But please do so in as polite , tactful and congenial way as possible.

 

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@Overengineer1  I have been testing the learning system on my Virgo 1 Space shuttle.  I know that is type of design is not really in the intended parameters of this mod, and as such I do not really expect any support for this type of design, and the fact is I am not really asking for any.  The Mod actually perform exceptionally well, once I figured out how to work with it.    The only trouble I had that I think may be an issue in general when using this mod is as follows:  Your mod pointed out some significant weaknesses in my craft design that had been masked by my less efficient manual and MJ launches.  This caused the craft to collide with the booster stages when they decoupled.  This unfortunately seemed to make the program think the craft had failed for some other reason rather than just disregarding the data.  So I adjusted my design several times, and relaunched and clicked the best guess button each time, while keeping the same name.  By the time I got the issue fixed the assent profile was so low and shallow that the shuttle did not even get going fast enough to burn up, it just ended up doing a slow descent into the ocean.  I let it do a slow guess improvement over 3 or 4 more launches and it did slowly improve.  But not enough to reach orbit.  So total launch number was about 8 to 10.

I guess my point with all of this is if it is not too much trouble with your next update to add a "please disregard  previous launch data" button.  Once I renamed the vessel within about 5 launches it had zeroed in on a very efficient profile.


And now for something completely different.
With 1.0.4 and 1.0.5 my PC runs KSP very poorly.  But if 1.1 improves performance as significantly as I hope it will, I can see some significant opportunities with this and integration into career mode.   Such as, this mod could be an optional purchase, on a ship by ship basis (no part just say a right click option on the command module).  And each additional lauch guess could be billed as a launch computer upgrade that cost additional money for that ship design.  Just my Ideas you can tell me to go stuff it if you like.

Also one question.
 @JAFO and @DStaal  have some good points.  But I was wondering if the launch profile is optimized for 80km should it really not also be fairly near or truly optimized for any altitude above atmo?  Is this what you meant in your earlier responses?  I could be wrong but ...well...

Edited by mcirish3

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10 hours ago, mcirish3 said:

Please calm down.  GT is a great mod and is a drastic improvement to what is otherwise available.  I am sure you guys did not mean it but you come off sounding a bit demanding.  Overengineer1 made this mod for himself and decided to share it with us.  He can take it away just as easily and if the users are demanding or overbearing then he could do just that.  That is not to say, don't bring up issues concerns Ideas and suggestions, But please do so in as polite , tactful and congenial way as possible.

Sorry if I came off a bit forceful - GT is a great mod, and effortlessly launches rockets efficiently which Mechjeb had flipping end-over-end, and which I could only really launch with brute force.

I would be disappointed if Overengineer1 didn't take up our suggestion, but I'd back off and let up about it if I think he understood it when he rejected it.  I was trying to be clear and make the point about why we think it's a feature GT needs (and why it feels like the mod is a bit incomplete without it, to me at least), with the hope that Overengineer1 would understand our point of view better.

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I take all suggestions very seriously.  If you follow the trail of this thread, most of the new features and fixes follow reports or suggestions from the users.

I'm still thinking about how I want to handle this.  I know what the mod is currently doing is not enough, I'm pretty sure in some ways it's just ignoring the inclination and destination height, which isn't appropriate.  I need to figure out how to best balance adding complicated logic and UI that would confuse some users, vs. adding a sanity check to the learning mechanism that some users will find restricting.  Something in the middle is where we'll end up, but this will have to be backed up with actually producing the best results.

You'll have to be patient at this point.  We've passed the 90/10 line:  90% of the work takes 10% of the time, 10% of the work takes 90% of the time.  I've already done 90% of the work, which means I'm really just getting started.

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6 hours ago, DStaal said:

Sorry if I came off a bit forceful - GT is a great mod, and effortlessly launches rockets efficiently which Mechjeb had flipping end-over-end, and which I could only really launch with brute force.

I would be disappointed if Overengineer1 didn't take up our suggestion, but I'd back off and let up about it if I think he understood it when he rejected it.  I was trying to be clear and make the point about why we think it's a feature GT needs (and why it feels like the mod is a bit incomplete without it, to me at least), with the hope that Overengineer1 would understand our point of view better.

Seconded.. it was not my intention to come off sounding demanding.. and for that I apologise. I also would like to back up the point @DStaal makes in his second paragraph above.

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Hey, I love your mod, but I have a question:

After leaving the atmosphere, GravityTurn sets a manouver node for circulation and timewarps to the node. Great, but I can't seem to stop this timewarp. If you reduce it, the mod just turns it back on.

Am I missing anything? It seems like an oversight

 

PS: I have MechJeb, but at a point in career mode that I can't access the manouver planner yet. Maybe it tries to interact with that, but can't and that throws some problems?

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5 hours ago, Sir_Robert said:

Hey, I love your mod, but I have a question:

After leaving the atmosphere, GravityTurn sets a manouver node for circulation and timewarps to the node. Great, but I can't seem to stop this timewarp. If you reduce it, the mod just turns it back on.

Am I missing anything? It seems like an oversight

 

PS: I have MechJeb, but at a point in career mode that I can't access the manouver planner yet. Maybe it tries to interact with that, but can't and that throws some problems?

I am not sure what the problem is?  MJ auto assent is also not available if you don't have access to maneuver planner yet.  By using GT you are already circumventing that part of MJ why do you care if you also circumvent maneuver planner?

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I really love this mod. Good work. I do have a small issue with this though. Can you please include a feature so that gravity turn can respect action group launches? It take about 3 or 4 action groups to launch certain rockets.

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19 hours ago, mcirish3 said:

I am not sure what the problem is?  MJ auto assent is also not available if you don't have access to maneuver planner yet.  By using GT you are already circumventing that part of MJ why do you care if you also circumvent maneuver planner?

The part about MJ was just because I suspected the attempted co-operation between the mods caused the problem. NOWHERE did I mention auto assent, so I am very confused about where you got that from

The problem is Gravityturn timewarping to the apoapsis, and not letting me STOP the timewarp. If I turn off timewarp, Gravityturn jus turns it back on again

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6 minutes ago, Overengineer1 said:

@Sir_Robert GravityTurn isn't timewarping to Apoapsis.  MechJeb is.  GravityTurn stopped all operations as soon as you left the atmosphere and handed it over to MechJeb.

I see. So I was right in suspecting MJ had something to do with it.

I'll assume that it is indeed Gravityturn telling MJ to do the manouvernode, but with manouver planner not active, the process going wrong? I'll just work to unlock the planner. Thanks

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40 minutes ago, Sir_Robert said:

The part about MJ was just because I suspected the attempted co-operation between the mods caused the problem. NOWHERE did I mention auto assent, so I am very confused about where you got that from

The problem is Gravityturn timewarping to the apoapsis, and not letting me STOP the timewarp. If I turn off timewarp, Gravityturn jus turns it back on again

It is not GT turning it back on, it is MJ that is turning it back on, that is how MJ auto execute works.  After exiting the atmo GT hands control over to MJ, and turns itself off.

GT is an auto assent mod.  MJ also has an auto assent module.  In career mode MJ's auto assent module does not unlock until well after maneuver planning does. GT is not balanced or set up for use in career mode.    Thus the only career guidance that you have comes from MJ which say you should not have any auto assent guidance at this point of your career.   You have chosen to ignore that guidance by installing GT.  And that is fine, it is after all your choice.  But I again ask if you are ok with walking around that aspect of MJ,  why do you care if MJ's auto node execution and auto time warp are accessed as well since those functions are lower on the tech tree than assent guidance is.

Edit:  Sorry Overengineer1 I totally missed your response.

Edited by mcirish3

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36 minutes ago, Sir_Robert said:

but with manouver planner not active, the process going wrong?

Based on your description is would seem MJ is working as intended.  The maneuver planner may not be visible but unless the burn is not executed upon arrival at apoapsis I would say it is working exactly as intended. 

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14 minutes ago, mcirish3 said:

It is not GT turning it back on, it is MJ that is turning it back on, that is how MJ auto execute works.  After exiting the atmo GT hands control over to MJ, and turns itself off.

GT is an auto assent mod.  MJ also has an auto assent module.  In career mode MJ's auto assent module does not unlock until well after maneuver planning does. GT is not balanced or set up for use in career mode.    Thus the only career guidance that you have comes from MJ which say you should not have any auto assent guidance at this point of your career.   You have chosen to ignore that guidance by installing GT.  And that is fine, it is after all your choice.  But I again ask if you are ok with walking around that aspect of MJ,  why do you care if MJ's auto node execution and auto time warp are accessed as well since those functions are lower on the tech tree than assent guidance is.

Edit:  Sorry Overengineer1 I totally missed your response.

That was my question yes. IF MJ manouver planner was in effect despite that not having been unlocked. Turns out it is. Which is a slight malfunction, but now that I know the cause, easy to work around. MJ Manouver planner isn't 'accessed' through some cheat, it's not unlocked yet. It just warps to the node and than stops, leaving me to do the actual burn.

And than you for the lecture about how to play the game. But I think that I can decide for myself when I 'earn' an assent guidance.

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