Joshwoo70

KSP being "mundane"

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BEFORE COMMENTING READ THE BOTTOM

Okay first, I hope this in the correct topic

Next here is the link to CBCNews who said it "mundane" : Linky

Now here are my thoughts:

Yes I can agree ksp sometime is mundane, but like others who commented KSP isn't mundane. More fun than mundane. For me, it is mostly for the mods that I install and various graphic enhancement mods... also including the fact that.. I haven't been to a couple of places/planets...

There.. my quick rant... let the talking begin!

Remember the rules guys!

One more: NO HATE SPEECH OR SWEARING

Edited by Joshwoo69
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Yeah, look at the comments below the article.

Most of them about ksp.

EDIT : Calling ksp hyper realistic! :D

Ksp is there to be fun and I think it teaches people about our world, but the thrill of having fuel tanks explode and landing legs fall off and then landing an assemetric low fuel spacecraft on another world your kerbals have never stepped onto is certanly not mundane. Ksp is one of least mundane games actually - as Hotaru said GTA and Skyrim are (sometimes on the charts with real time flights across the world) and only rarely actually more action filled than ksp.

 

Edited by rocketbuilder

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Anyone who thinks space travel is "mundane" probably isn't part of the target audience of a game called "Kerbal Space Program" anyway.

That said, I do find it interesting how entertaining "mundane" games can be (or regular games played in a "mundane" way). When I play Grand Theft Auto, I frequently go many hours without stealing a car or shooting anyone, instead just getting out of bed, driving around in a car I bought on the in-game internet, maybe getting a haircut or buying some clothes, listening to the radio, playing a round or two of golf, BASE jumping off a mountain, and then going back to bed in the evening. In other words, doing nothing I couldn't, at least in principle, have done in real life. (Well, maybe not the BASE jumping.) For some reason, I find this almost endlessly entertaining.

In Skyrim, I've had a few characters where I installed some "hardcore mode" mods and enforced an "always-walk" rule. Just living in the world became an adventure in camping, hunting, and cold-weather survival (and occasionally battling dragons). The mundane aspects of the world were what made it fun, playing that way. Having to worry about things like where to set up camp and whether I had enough firewood, not just random encounters and dragon attacks.

Before I was into KSP I played a lot of X-Plane, doing things like flying a Zeppelin from Frankfurt to New York in real time (about 50 hours) or a DH.88 propeller plane from England to Australia in a recreation of a 1930s air race. Time warp was an option in that game, but I never used it. The delayed reward of arrival at some distant destination after hours of carefully following rivers and monitoring radio beacons was half the fun. Again, endlessly amusing.

I guess it's something about the fantasy of living in a slightly more exciting world than real life, or a fantasy version of real life where you can do what you want, take risks you wouldn't in real life.

In any case, though, I'd never have put KSP in the "mundane simulation" category. Although it can arguably be played that way (I certainly try!) on the whole it's a lot more action-packed than, say, driving an imaginary bus from Tuscon to Vegas.

 

PS. Don't tell anyone at X-Plane.org I called it a "game." Unless you want to read pages and pages of retorts explaining it's a flight simulator, which is completely different from a mere "game" in every conceivable way.

Edited by Hotaru

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13 minutes ago, Hotaru said:

-snip-

Yeah, it's to play games like that from time to time, there is something surprisingly entertaining about the mundane. :) Personally, I'm waiting for a fully-fledged "life-simulator", something that's like real life, just slightly more interesting, going a little bit easier on the laws of physics. That's probably just me though, and I don't anyone making anything like that anytime soon. :P

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I suspect "mundane" may mean "not just running around shooting stuff but requires thought and effort to get results". I also play world of warships (CBT tester no less) and the occasional world of tanks, the forums there are blighted by complaints that the game is too hard/full of hackers/rigged..... many players simply jump in and start crying "haxor" as soon as something they do not understand happens (especially the chap who thought his tank was safe behind a building but failed to notice the windows).

Another favourite is Silent Hunter 3 with the GWX mod where it is usual to spend several days of game time working out a convoys course and speed before spending several more days working yourself into a good approach position. Even launching one salvo then needs hours of real time low speed movement relying mostly on sonar with the occasional brief periscope exposure to work into an attack position and then getting clear of the escorts.

I guess it's a case of many expecting instant gratification rather than taking pleasure in doing something challenging and sometimes succeeding.

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Media people say silly stuff sometimes. I know, I work there too.

 

Though the author raises a fair point, that can even be interesting for non-gamers. Not that he could have said anything new to us. The adjective used there isn't the best one as it could read 'dull or unimaginative'. We don't have to explain how far it is from the truth. It's also an unlucky choice of word as the new KSP players first tasks are usually attempts to leave mundus.

But it's definately more 'mundane' than for example Master of Orion, WoW, Star Citizen or <insert kinda' any non simulation game title here>. A meaningless statement for us, but we aren't the target audience for that site. TLDR: Who cares..

Edited by Evanitis

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24 minutes ago, dangerhamster said:

I suspect "mundane" may mean "not just running around shooting stuff but requires thought and effort to get results". I also play world of warships (CBT tester no less) and the occasional world of tanks, the forums there are blighted by complaints that the game is too hard/full of hackers/rigged..... many players simply jump in and start crying "haxor" as soon as something they do not understand happens (especially the chap who thought his tank was safe behind a building but failed to notice the windows).

Another favourite is Silent Hunter 3 with the GWX mod where it is usual to spend several days of game time working out a convoys course and speed before spending several more days working yourself into a good approach position. Even launching one salvo then needs hours of real time low speed movement relying mostly on sonar with the occasional brief periscope exposure to work into an attack position and then getting clear of the escorts.

I guess it's a case of many expecting instant gratification rather than taking pleasure in doing something challenging and sometimes succeeding.

Thats the problem with online gaming... What was it Jingles said? The only problem with online games is that you have to let other people play them or something along that line.

I had to stop playing WoT/WoWS because the game is so full of morons who can't understand simple strategy. Like Himmelsdorf Encounter. How many teams would completely ignore the hill in favor of grabbing a cap, a cap you couldn't get in time. More often than not you would loose because you were surrounded on all sides.

I suspect the reason for "Realism simulators" success is due to the overwhelming market being mostly mindless games that require little or no thought. So when something like KSP comes along where a single mission can take weeks of planning... well there isn't much out there that does that.

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There are parts of it that are mundane, but I certainly wouldn't call the game as a whole that.

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I don't agree with KSP being labelled as mundane, but I do hope that everyone who feels the urge to comment on the article tries to keep it clean and respectful.

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I wasn't able to read the article. Lack of javascript permissions made the content inaccessible. My comment will be based entirely on the "title".

Of course KSP is mundane. Its "too hard", the average person wants a quick, point-and-click adventure. How many average people know how orbital mechanics works? The average gamer also wants something violent. The most violence you'll get in KSP is slamming a vehicle into one of the buildings. The other thing they want are games that look very pretty... My source? I'm around a lot of these kind of people.

KSP is none of this. KSP is a mind game. KSP was hard when I first tried it and I had to learn more before I could do anything simple (orbit, transfer, etc). I like exercising my mind.

Hope this is respectful enough, I still wanted to be frank enough to get my point across without being disrespectful.

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Mundane means Dull.

KSP is a sandbox game.  A sandbox game is structured based on how a player approaches it.  An imaginative player will create an imaginative game experience. A mundane player will create a mundane game experience.

If a sandbox game is dull, then the person playing it is dull.  Simples.  The game play reflects the player.

That said, there are elements of "Career Play" which are grind and a bit boring - however, a creative player can easily find ways to enhance the play regardless.

Articles like this one mentioned, just really speak to a lazy and unengaged media shill professional.

Edited by Wallygator

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Simulated games have been around for decades but a new crop of hyper-realistic and seemingly mundane simulators are gaining a mainstream audience.

The 1995  game Desert Bus took the idea of the mundane video game to its extreme, and coined the term "verisimulator", meaning a game so close to reality that it can hardly be called a game at all. In it, the "player" drives a bus between Tuscan, Arizona and Las Vegas, Nevada, all in real time. If you manage to crash, a tow truck drives the bus back, also in real time. The trip takes 8 hours.

Now, two decades later, games like Farm Simulator or Euro Truck Simulator -- where people spend hours driving a transport truck across Europe in real time -- are selling in the millions. The space flight simulator, Kerbal Space Program, is a best seller on the online video game retailer Steam.

Several sub-pages dedicated to simulation games have sprung up on the message-board Reddit. We spoke to three commenters from those sites, Glen, Chris and Jared, who each play several different highly realistic simulators.

 

We also spoke to video game historian and freelance journalist Richard Moss about the beginnings and rise of simulators, as well as the author of Philosophy Through Video Games, and Professor of Philosophy, Mark Silcox about how these games are able to help us find enjoyment in mundane tasks.

@MGCJerry Not much of an article really.  It doesn't make any arguments to the claim, it just states it as a fact and that they spoke to a bunch of people but didn't bother to tell us what those people said.

Edited by Alshain

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I'd say KSP is mundane. Let's be fair here; if a space mission goes according to plan, there are about four periods of mild intensity followed by hours/days/months of waiting about for you to get where you're going. It's when things go wrong that it gets exciting, and when you reach a certain skill level, things rarely go wrong in exciting ways, they go wrong in ways that are annoying.

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4 minutes ago, Stargate525 said:

I'd say KSP is mundane. Let's be fair here; if a space mission goes according to plan, there are about four periods of mild intensity followed by hours/days/months of waiting about for you to get where you're going. It's when things go wrong that it gets exciting, and when you reach a certain skill level, things rarely go wrong in exciting ways, they go wrong in ways that are annoying.

Umm, you do know about the time warp feature, right?  Please tell me you aren't waiting months to get where you are going.

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21 minutes ago, Stargate525 said:

I'd say KSP is mundane. Let's be fair here; if a space mission goes according to plan, there are about four periods of mild intensity followed by hours/days/months of waiting about for you to get where you're going. It's when things go wrong that it gets exciting, and when you reach a certain skill level, things rarely go wrong in exciting ways, they go wrong in ways that are annoying.

We are talking about a GAME not a real space mission. Still, I respect your opinion.

However, I suggest anyone who thinks space is mundane should talk to or read about a REAL astronaut or Cosmonaut, I would expect they would not in any bit of their recollection of any actual space mission use the word "Mundane".

Also, things go wrong because the player screws up either during the mission or during mission design.

AND>>> Things also get exciting when everything works according to plan!

ANDAND>>>Kerbal skill level DOES NOT equate to player skill level - just in case there was any confusion.

ANDANDAND>>> Wait a minute... If I design and execute a mission wherein everything works perfectly so much that I experience little stress - then wow, mundane is actually a good thing from my player perspective.

Edited by Wallygator

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3 minutes ago, Wallygator said:

Uh... No. We are talking about a GAME not a real space mission.

However, I suggest anyone who thinks space is mundane should talk to or read about a REAL astronaut or Cosmonaut, I would expect they would not in any bit of their recollection of any actual space mission use the word "Mundane".

I have a friend who works in air traffic control, to him mundane means he's doing it right. Although he does have some great tales such as heavies headed into Heathrow trying to land at RAF Northolt 'cos "runway in sight".....

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Warfare is much more mundane than space travel. There are much more soldiers on the planet than astronauts and areospace engineers, and we've been having wars for much longer than we've been going into space. And yet they don't call out games like Call of Duty as being mundane.

Anybody can pick up their boomstick and kill someone, that's whats mundane around here. But calling the miracle of spaceflight... what some consider the greatest achievement of all mankind 'MUNDANE?!!'. :mad:

This is why my generation has no faith in news outlets.

Edited by Kuansenhama

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Did my wife write that article? To her it is a stupid game. I've tried to explain the attraction. She just glazes over. Mundane is in the eye of the beholder. 

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Simulated games have been around for decades but a new crop of hyper-realistic and seemingly mundane simulators are gaining a mainstream audience.

Quote

seemingly mundane

Did anyone actually read the article lol?

Spoiler

"Simulated games have been around for decades but a new crop of hyper-realistic and seemingly mundane simulators are gaining a mainstream audience.

The 1995  game Desert Bus took the idea of the mundane video game to its extreme, and coined the term "verisimulator", meaning a game so close to reality that it can hardly be called a game at all. In it, the "player" drives a bus between Tuscan, Arizona and Las Vegas, Nevada, all in real time. If you manage to crash, a tow truck drives the bus back, also in real time. The trip takes 8 hours.

The game Euro Truck Simulator 2 has sold 2.5 million copies.

Now, two decades later, games like Farm Simulator or Euro Truck Simulator -- where people spend hours driving a transport truck across Europe in real time -- are selling in the millions. The space flight simulator, Kerbal Space Program, is a best seller on the online video game retailer Steam.

Several sub-pages dedicated to simulation games have sprung up on the message-board Reddit. We spoke to three commenters from those sites, Glen, Chris and Jared, who each play several different highly realistic simulators.

We also spoke to video game historian and freelance journalist Richard Moss about the beginnings and rise of simulators, as well as the author of Philosophy Through Video Games, and Professor of Philosophy, Mark Silcox about how these games are able to help us find enjoyment in mundane tasks."

 

Edited by Rocket In My Pocket

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2 hours ago, dangerhamster said:

I have a friend who works in air traffic control, to him mundane means he's doing it right. Although he does have some great tales such as heavies headed into Heathrow trying to land at RAF Northolt 'cos "runway in sight".....

Its OK fro your friend to have his/her/its own definition, but there is a dictionary...   ;-)

FYI: I like your avatar

Edited by Wallygator

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27 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

Did anyone actually read the article lol?

  Reveal hidden contents

"Simulated games have been around for decades but a new crop of hyper-realistic and seemingly mundane simulators are gaining a mainstream audience.

The 1995  game Desert Bus took the idea of the mundane video game to its extreme, and coined the term "verisimulator", meaning a game so close to reality that it can hardly be called a game at all. In it, the "player" drives a bus between Tuscan, Arizona and Las Vegas, Nevada, all in real time. If you manage to crash, a tow truck drives the bus back, also in real time. The trip takes 8 hours.

The game Euro Truck Simulator 2 has sold 2.5 million copies.

Now, two decades later, games like Farm Simulator or Euro Truck Simulator -- where people spend hours driving a transport truck across Europe in real time -- are selling in the millions. The space flight simulator, Kerbal Space Program, is a best seller on the online video game retailer Steam.

Several sub-pages dedicated to simulation games have sprung up on the message-board Reddit. We spoke to three commenters from those sites, Glen, Chris and Jared, who each play several different highly realistic simulators.

We also spoke to video game historian and freelance journalist Richard Moss about the beginnings and rise of simulators, as well as the author of Philosophy Through Video Games, and Professor of Philosophy, Mark Silcox about how these games are able to help us find enjoyment in mundane tasks."

 

Yes, it's not much of an article. "Article" is a stretch actually.

I am confused as to whether we are commenting on the article or the context of the article.  Either way it makes for a good discussion.

Edited by Wallygator
Schpelling

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The author of that article clearly doesn't know what she's talking about. Dull and uninteresting? 

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Well, keep in mind in this day and age that everybody has an opinion on everything, and sometimes you have to take those opinions with "a grain of salt".

She has expressed her opinion about KSP and a few other games, and there are times where simulators can be boring as heck. Life is like that as well, and that's what simulators are all about: a snippet of real life in a particular career.

Lets just leave it at that and call it a day.

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35 minutes ago, Wallygator said:

Yes, it's not much of an article. "Article" is a stretch actually.

More like a introduction to a article. Not alot of data here to say that her "article" is positive or negative towards Simulators.

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