[1.12.x] Kerbal Atomics: fancy nuclear engines! (January 22, 2022)

[Wyzard]

I'm surprised no one else has mentioned yet: the stock LV-N engine has no exhaust plume or sound when it's in LH2 mode.  Happens in KSP 1.3.1 in a new sandbox game with no other mods besides this one.  LF mode is OK, and all the other engines are OK.  I'm guessing it's probably just a bug in the LF/LH2 mode-switching patch for the LV-N.

It's not a major problem since the engine still produces thrust; it's just a little weird to have a silent, flameless rocket. 

[Nertea]

Motivation to not use the LF mode!

[Wyzard]

5 hours ago, Nertea said:

Motivation to not use the LF mode!

But LF mode is the one that works — LH2 mode is where the problem is.  It's more like motivation not to use the LV-N at all, when better nuclear engines are available. 

(I'd designed a ship using the LV-N and discovered the problem, then I unlocked the Neptune to try it out instead, and found that it gives me more dV and produces EC to cool the cryo tanks!)

[Nertea]

I was joking :P. It's obviously not intended...

[captinjoehenry]

I love the nuclear aerospike engines.  Especially the smaller one.  I just wish that the exhaust gimbaled along with the actual thrust.  As it is right now while gimbaling works perfectly the exhaust only  goes straight

[Nertea]

On 10/19/2017 at 8:59 PM, Wyzard said:

I'm surprised no one else has mentioned yet: the stock LV-N engine has no exhaust plume or sound when it's in LH2 mode.  Happens in KSP 1.3.1 in a new sandbox game with no other mods besides this one.  LF mode is OK, and all the other engines are OK.  I'm guessing it's probably just a bug in the LF/LH2 mode-switching patch for the LV-N.

It's not a major problem since the engine still produces thrust; it's just a little weird to have a silent, flameless rocket. 

Urgle I was going to release a fix for this today, but I forgot to test it! Tomorrow...

[Kingkwik]

Where are you supposed to install the patch for liquid fuel instead of LH2?

[Nertea]

3 hours ago, Kingkwik said:

Where are you supposed to install the patch for liquid fuel instead of LH2?

Quoth the aptly-named readme.txt:

Quote

======================
INSTALLATION OF EXTRAS
======================

Some extra patches are bundled that you can use to tweak your installation. To install them, drop the correct folder from the Extras folder in this archive into your KSP GameData Folder

NTRsUseLF: Reverts all NTRs to using Liquid Fuel
NearFutureElectricalNTRs: Advanced NTR management when coupled with Near Future Electrical (EXPERIMENTAL)

 

Also: 

On 10/19/2017 at 8:59 PM, Wyzard said:

I'm surprised no one else has mentioned yet: the stock LV-N engine has no exhaust plume or sound when it's in LH2 mode.  Happens in KSP 1.3.1 in a new sandbox game with no other mods besides this one.  LF mode is OK, and all the other engines are OK.  I'm guessing it's probably just a bug in the LF/LH2 mode-switching patch for the LV-N.

 

I may need the help of someone who is better at MM than me to fix this.

[Wyzard]

2 hours ago, Nertea said:

I may need the help of someone who is better at MM than me to fix this.

I don't know if I'm better at MM than you, but I'll take a closer look at the patch this weekend to see if I can figure out why it happens.  No promises, though.

BTW, regarding the Extras folder: how would you feel about changing that to use PatchManager format instead?  It'd mean a slight change to the "manual" installation process (copying patch files out of GameData/KerbalAtomics/PatchManager/PluginData/ instead of having an Extras folder), but it'd mean that people who use PatchManager can enable your optional tweaks just by clicking checkboxes in-game.  I'd be willing to make the changes and submit a PR, but it'd be a waste of time if you're unlikely to accept the PR, so I figure I should ask first.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Wyzard

[JadeOfMaar]

@Nertea @Wyzard The problems with the patch for the Nerv are:

1. The two ModuleEnginesFX don't like calling the same runningEffect/powerEffect etc nodes.
2. Line 82: fxOffset = ... needs a modifier prefix as it's already declared in ModuleEngines.

On the side, I added this in my test assuming it (and by extension all of the atomic engines) needs to generate EC in both engine modes.

@MODULE[ModuleAlternator]
{
    preferMultiMode = true
}

 

Edited November 2, 2017 by JadeOfMaar

[tarkhil]

I don't understand, on what weight LH/nuclear engines becomes weight-effective? For something like 15-20 tons craft, LF/LOx seems to have more DeltaV (in vacuum)...

[Wyzard]

On 11/2/2017 at 1:50 AM, JadeOfMaar said:

@Nertea @Wyzard The problems with the patch for the Nerv are:

1. The two ModuleEnginesFX don't like calling the same runningEffect/powerEffect etc nodes.
2. Line 82: fxOffset = ... needs a modifier prefix as it's already declared in ModuleEngines.

On the side, I added this in my test assuming it (and by extension all of the atomic engines) needs to generate EC in both engine modes.

@MODULE[ModuleAlternator]
{
    preferMultiMode = true
}

 

I've submitted PR #44 with fixes for these problems, plus some slight refactoring in the affected part of the patch.  This fixes the plume/sound in LH2 mode, and the alternator in LF mode.

[toric5]

On 11/1/2017 at 6:11 PM, Nertea said:

Quoth the aptly-named readme.txt:

 

Also: 

I may need the help of someone who is better at MM than me to fix this.

well, sounds like its time for me to get a 1.3.1 save going then. sounds very odd. @Wyzard, can i get your module manager cache and your .log?

[Nertea]

11 hours ago, Wyzard said:

I've submitted PR #44 with fixes for these problems, plus some slight refactoring in the affected part of the patch.  This fixes the plume/sound in LH2 mode, and the alternator in LF mode.

Thank you sir, I shall merge it and test it post haste.

[capran]

On the otherwise awesome Emancipator engine, even with Near Future Electrical installed, you can't transfer Enriched Uranium into the engine! It says something like "not a transferable container". That severely reduces the dV you can achieve with this engine. Once the E.U. is used up, that's it, even if you have plenty of LH2 and canisters of E.U. 

How can this be fixed? Or is it meant to be that way?

[Nergal8617]

On 11/7/2017 at 7:42 PM, capran said:

On the otherwise awesome Emancipator engine, even with Near Future Electrical installed, you can't transfer Enriched Uranium into the engine! It says something like "not a transferable container". That severely reduces the dV you can achieve with this engine. Once the E.U. is used up, that's it, even if you have plenty of LH2 and canisters of E.U. 

How can this be fixed? Or is it meant to be that way?

If I remember correctly, you are not supposed to be able to refuel the Emancipator.

[Nertea]

On 11/7/2017 at 5:42 PM, capran said:

On the otherwise awesome Emancipator engine, even with Near Future Electrical installed, you can't transfer Enriched Uranium into the engine! It says something like "not a transferable container". That severely reduces the dV you can achieve with this engine. Once the E.U. is used up, that's it, even if you have plenty of LH2 and canisters of E.U. 

How can this be fixed? Or is it meant to be that way?

It's meant to be that way unless you install the advanced NTRs patch. 

[hemeac]

Sorry if this is better to be posting in SXT Continued, but I had noticed that when both SXT Continued and Kerbal Atomics are installed together, Kerbal Atomics converts the LV-NX3 "Phoebus" and the LV-NX4 "Fat Mun" nuclear engines to LH2 fuels.  I wouldn't have a major issue with this itself, except that the dV for these have made them largely irrelevant.  I've verified that it's Kerbal Atomics as I had tried an install with just SXT Continued and then added Kerbal Atomics.  I've tried having a look at the cfg files to see what may be switching the fuels, but haven't spotted anything that is obvious (to me).  Any thoughts on how I could switch it back to "stock"?. This is for the latest versions for both SXT Continued and Kerbal Atomics on 1.3.1.

Edited November 13, 2017 by hemeac

[Nergal8617]

Never mind.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Nergal8617

[hemeac]

9 hours ago, Nergal8617 said:

Never mind.

Your non-edited post helped!  I took a look at the LH2NTRsDynamic.cfg in the patches folder and that was what was converting the SXT nuclear engines to Liquid Hydrogen and giving them a 10% increase in ISP.  Went a step further and used the MM patch for hydrogenNTRsSQUAD.cfg as a basis to create my own patch to create a dual fuel option for the SXT engines as it was giving the stock "Nerv" engine a 50% increase in ISP when converting from Liquid Fuel to Liquid Hydrogen.

[Nertea]

7 hours ago, hemeac said:

the SXT engines as it was giving the stock "Nerv" engine a 50% increase in ISP when converting from Liquid Fuel to Liquid Hydrogen.

What? No it shouldn't be... Increases it to 900s. That's around 10%.

 

[hemeac]

10 minutes ago, Nertea said:

What? No it shouldn't be... Increases it to 900s. That's around 10%.

I meant relative to the Liquid Fuel ISP going from 600 to Liquid Hydrogen 900 as found in hydrogenNTRsSQUAD.cfg.  But as an aside, leaving LH2NTRsDynamic.cfg in increases the ISP of the Liquid Hydrogen in the stock Nerv engine (as well as the SXT engines) a further 10% to 990 in space. 

As an aside, I was struggling to figure out why there was any reason to be using Liquid Hydrogen given the further EC requirement until I saw the weight of the fuel and your comment on the first post, "Liquid Hydrogen is less dense than liquid fuel, so for the same Delta-V, you will need more tank volume." I understand the trade-offs now and waiting to unlock more of your parts in my career.  I've been really enjoying your mods and trying to wait patiently for the Station Parts Redux!

[Nertea]

Ah I see. That's a bit problematic. @toric5, how might we modify your patch to exclude LF/LH2 multimode engines?

[Wyzard]

10 hours ago, Nertea said:

Ah I see. That's a bit problematic. @toric5, how might we modify your patch to exclude LF/LH2 multimode engines?

I was thinking about that while working on the recent LV-N multimode fixes, and it's probably sufficient to just add a :HAS stanza that filters out engines that already  have LH2-burning engine modules.  Something like this:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEnginesFX]:HAS[@PROPELLANT[LiquidFuel],!PROPELLANT[Oxidizer],!PROPELLANT[IntakeAir]],!MODULE[ModuleEnginesFX]:HAS[@PROPELLANT[LqdHydrogen]]]:NEEDS[!NTRsUseLF]:FOR[zzLH2NTR]

But this will only work correctly if the engine is already multimode when the patch is applied.  The :FOR[zzLH2NTR] clause should put it pretty late in the load order, but there's a possibility that some other mod's "zz" patch might run later and add multimode to a nuclear engine that's already been touched by this one.

(BTW, you can avoid needing duplicate copies of the patch for ModuleEngines vs. ModuleEnginesFX by using a wildcard, i.e. @MODULE[ModuleEngines*].)

[Niccolo]

On 11/13/2017 at 9:44 PM, hemeac said:

Sorry if this is better to be posting in SXT Continued, but I had noticed that when both SXT Continued and Kerbal Atomics are installed together, Kerbal Atomics converts the LV-NX3 "Phoebus" and the LV-NX4 "Fat Mun" nuclear engines to LH2 fuels.  I wouldn't have a major issue with this itself, except that the dV for these have made them largely irrelevant.  I've verified that it's Kerbal Atomics as I had tried an install with just SXT Continued and then added Kerbal Atomics.  I've tried having a look at the cfg files to see what may be switching the fuels, but haven't spotted anything that is obvious (to me).  Any thoughts on how I could switch it back to "stock"?. This is for the latest versions for both SXT Continued and Kerbal Atomics on 1.3.1.

 

Hmm, I think something similar might be happening with VSR, which adds the Shiba.