Squadcast Summary (2016/03/03) - Mod it till it squeals edition

[MiniMatt]

I did mention previously that I wouldn't get chance to do these very often - everyone else welcome to hop in at any stage. 5thHorseman & OWK (was it Owl or OWK? Might have been OWK) before him were much better custodians of this slot than me. I did actually get to see most of last week's squadcast too, but other than the news that SQUAD DOGGIE likes apples it was rather light on news.

Anyway, with exciting developments coming thick and fast I figured this week's Squadcast would definitely be one to watch.

This week's squadcast, with Kasper, Nathan, and Roverdude will be of great interest to modders and those who use mods with a lot of interesting chat. A good chunk of technical chat about new hooks and handles, from which mere mortals can discern the mods most likely to require significant work to make 1.1 compatible (tl;dr: anything with wheels, anything UI, anything at all really) and some new possibilities afforded by the new interfaces.

As ever, this broadcast archive can be found at http://www.twitch.tv/ksptv/profile/past_broadcasts and twitch now archives the chat stream too (though still requires flash, so you know, be careful, update flash / run it in a VM / set flash to click-to-play etc). And as ever, this is just one person's interpretation of a stream and is in no way authoritative or even accurate.

 

(1) We're running v1.0.5, setting up to launch a small dummy payload into orbit.

(2) "it's quite a difference" responds Kasper when asked in chat what it's like going back to 1.0.5 after playing 1.1

(3) talk of extra event handles in the code* expanding on the interesting coolant talk going on in this weeks devnotes between Red Iron Crown & Nathan (fix to ensure heat is transferred with fuel when moved around a vessel opens up pumped coolant possibilities)

(5) re existing mods anything with wheels will almost certainly need changing, UI mods will see significant changes, new asset bundles. After launch, talk of doing a special UI building KSP livestream. Meanwhile the craft on the launchpad jettisons it's fairing as it's first order of business, hasty revert to re-arrange staging.

(6) not talking specific performance numbers until experimental data is in, "crap ton of optimisations" performing a lot better. Deep mods will need to change bindings as some old hooks are no longer there. OnGUI code should still be backwards compatible.

(7) rocket has launched but is extra bendy, revert to VAB.

(8) unity 5 setup is a lot easier to work with

(9) sas/torque calculations have been reworked a little in 1.1 so can now ref new iTorque property rather than checking through reaction wheels. Should help with autopilot mods.

(11) Re the KSP store v steam distribution for pre-release launch (after experimentals, before proper launch). Always looking at options, but rough calc at 70tb of traffic over two weeks would really stretch KSP servers / CDN costs so for now likely to be a steam exclusive.

(15) Rocket redesign as still too bendy. MOAR STRUTS.

(20) warning to steam pre-release, and some small compensation to KSP store owners - pre-release phase will almost certainly be buggy and save trashing. Bug finding power of thousands of steam customers dwarfs that achievable by even regimented QA/experimentals testing regimes. Steam customers are not "getting 1.1 early", they've the option of playing what will very likely be a buggy save trashing release.

(21) No electric juice on rocket has now resulted in dead almost-orbital rocket. Redesign to add MOAR JUICE.

(23) Innovative staging on launch is pretty but explosive - what happens if we fire ALL THE STAGES AT ONCE? Revert.

(24) At least Max got into orbit, Kasper admits

(26) stream/video NDA rights on pre-release likely to be pragmatic and open

(27) no plans to DRM pre-release, we've never had DRM in KSP, no plans to add at this stage. Nod to the Spintires DRM-lite clustertruck.

(30) Discussion on the KerbalStuff situation to nail some wilder revisionist theories. Status is, was, remains as officially communicated.

(31) We have orbit!

(35) Realism Overhaul (RP0) mod discussion

(37) De-orbited payload, now launching the Blackbird-like atmospheric jet designed in last week's squadcast.

(40) Unstable flight dynamics result in a water.... landing, let's call it a landing. Nathan knows his flight dynamics and educates the stream on Blackbird lift.

(42) Roverdude talking about streaming the work on his colonisation mods (mods, we're not talking about integrating this into stock)

(43) Now launching the Juno powered stock seaplane

(45) Successful sea landing, Valentina goes out for a swim. But is swimming backwards. At speed. Curious drag coefficient differences between a kerbal and a seaplane. Relaunch.

(48) Kasper talks about his mod making attempts.

(52) Now "landing" on the island runway, well, any one you walk away from.

(53) No plans for new parachutes in this update. Future is future.

(57) confirmation that fairing lift bug in 1.0.5 has been fixed in 1.1 - lift will now be applied at the root of the fairing.

(58) We leave Valentina at the top of the island control tower, and end the stream

(59) Fin

 

* whenever I hear "the code" I can't help but internally correct: "it's more what you'd call guidelines"

Edited March 4, 2016 by MiniMatt
Owl/OWK confusion cleared up by katateochi

[katateochi]

Thanks for the post @MiniMatt 

13 minutes ago, MiniMatt said:

was it Owl or OWK? Might have been OWK

It was OWK (ObsessedWithKSP), who sadly seems to be MIA. 

[MiniMatt]

Just now, katateochi said:

It was OWK (ObsessedWithKSP), who sadly seems to be MIA. 

That was it! Yep, hopefully we'll see the obsession re-ignite as 1.1 launches

[Temeter]

Thanks for the transcript!

[Superfluous J]

Thanks for the recap! It's so much easier doing these than writing them

[Motokid600]

If DRM was implemented would that make multiple installations impossible? Please Squad.. just... no. Please.

[Renegrade]

1 hour ago, Motokid600 said:

If DRM was implemented would that make multiple installations impossible? Please Squad.. just... no. Please.

Squad is very "NO" on DRM.  Which is good, as I am extremely "NO" on DRM.  Note that KSP's multi-install capability isn't just a no-DRM thing though: they MUST be using relative paths (like "GameData\Squad\Parts\blahblah" or "GameData/Squad/Parts/blah-blah" instead of "C:\$KSP_INSTALL\GameData\Squad\Parts\blah-blah" or "/$KSP_INSTALL/GameData/etc..").  I've noticed that other Unity-based games tend to do that too... probably because absolute paths are exceptionally non-portable (and non-modular).

[qromodynmc]

Cd Projekt Red and Squad,Two companies i love, both dont use drm

[nohelmet]

Squad being "No" on DRM is one of the reasons I bought KSP. Twice.  (on purpose)

[Francois424]

thanks for these.

[KerbonautInTraining]

Oh gosh, this is the first Squadcast I've ever seen.

It's so weird hearing their voices after only seeing them post on the forums

[Sandworm]

On 3/4/2016 at 2:28 PM, nohelmet said:

Squad being "No" on DRM is one of the reasons I bought KSP. Twice.  (on purpose)

Me too.  But that looks like it might change with the move towards steam-only builds.  Today it's "temporary".  Tomorrow, the steam client may be mandatory, an effective DRM scheme.

[Kerbart]

1 minute ago, Sandworm said:

(...) Tomorrow, the steam client may be mandatory, an effective DRM scheme.

Pray tell how distribution through Steam equals to an effective DRM scheme.

[Sandworm]

3 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

Pray tell how distribution through Steam equals to an effective DRM scheme.

Don't have steam = no play KSP.

 

It's a mandate to use a third party service.  And that third-party service is deciding who is and isn't allowed to play.  And steam tracks player time/location, along with other metrics.  It's DRM by another name.  Steam should remain an opt-in option for those who want it, not a mandate for those who do not.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Sandworm

[pincushionman]

3 minutes ago, Sandworm said:

Me too.  But that looks like it might change with the move towards steam-only builds.  Today it's "temporary".  Tomorrow, the steam client may be mandatory, an effective DRM scheme.

If Squad wanted to DRM through Steam, they wouldn't have contracted to GOG and Amazon years after they began Steam distribution.

[Sandworm]

Just now, pincushionman said:

If Squad wanted to DRM through Steam, they wouldn't have contracted to GOG and Amazon years after they began Steam distribution.

That's the point.  It seems things have changed in Squad.  They appear to be going back on their previous stances.  They are free to change their minds, and we are free to point it out.

[Kerbart]

4 minutes ago, Sandworm said:

Don't have steam = no play KSP.

 

It's a mandate to use a third party service.  And that third-party service is deciding who is and isn't allowed to play.  And steam tracks player time/location, along with other metrics.  It's DRM by another name.  Steam should remain an opt-in option for those who want it, not a mandate for those who do not.

I think you need to explain what your idea of DRM is, because it's likely not what most people consider DRM. I can play my Steam copy anywhere. Without Steam even being installed on the computer that I play KSP on. So again... what is the DRM part?

[NovaSilisko]

12 minutes ago, Sandworm said:

Tomorrow, the steam client may be mandatory, an effective DRM scheme.

...and eliminate all other revenue streams? Absolutely no way. Why does everyone refuse to believe the logistics explanation and instead jump to conspiracy theories?

[Superfluous J]

27 minutes ago, Sandworm said:

Tomorrow, the steam client may be mandatory, an effective DRM scheme.

And the day after, they may close up shop and all move to Northern Canada to get jobs clubbing baby seals.

I fear both of these things in equal amounts.

[Temeter]

KSP's steam version doesn't have any DRM. >_>

You can literally copy/paste the KSP directory, put it onto a torrent on piratebay, and there you go. Ergo there is no copy protection, digital or not.

22 minutes ago, NovaSilisko said:

...and eliminate all other revenue streams? Absolutely no way. Why does everyone refuse to believe the logistics explanation and instead jump to conspiracy theories?

Eh, it's usually just a few people who love conspiracies. They gonna get bored in a few days.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Temeter

[nightingale]

17 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

And the day after, they may close up shop and all move to Northern Canada to get jobs clubbing baby seals.

I fear both of these things in equal amounts.

Hey, just because Harvester hasn't accepted my proposal to open a baby seal taco stand in Iqaluit yet, doesn't mean he's not going to.

[Renegrade]

3 hours ago, Sandworm said:

Me too.  But that looks like it might change with the move towards steam-only builds.  Today it's "temporary".  Tomorrow, the steam client may be mandatory, an effective DRM scheme.

GoG and the Store (the Store really is VERY basic, which is why it rules 95% of the time, and sucks 5% of the rest of the time, that 5% being now of course) are simply not capable of incremental updates (diff-type patches).  The base game used to have a patcher system that COULD do that, but it hasn't worked properly in a long time (actually, ever in my experience).

Squad has indicated that the standard release version (the bug-reduced version; I don't think you can do "bug-free" with Unity) for 1.1 will be released normally on all platforms.  Until and unless they fail to do that, I don't see why we'd have any reason to doubt their word (well, unless they came out and gave us a release date, but that's a whole other thing, and most developers are absolutely terrible about those).

Also I want to re-iterate and verify Temeter's statement about the Steam version not having DRM: it really doesn't.  I used to use multiple installs of it before I converted over to the Store version, it didn't once complain (you just need to run the KSP executable directly (exactly like the store version) instead of launching it via Steam).  Any Steam-related DRM ends as soon as the content is delivered for KSP.

[MiniMatt]

I feel a need to clarify that the line about DRM in this squadcast is merely the reporting of a question being asked, and an answer being given.

If someone in the stream asked about the possibility of KSP implementing pay-to-win microtransactions I'd similarly write that question and answer up - but the existence of the question and the resounding negative answer* could not be taken as any kind of hint that such a thing was even remotely mooted.

Any impression garnered to the effect of DRM implementation being extensively discussed in any context other than the negative would be incorrect.

When writing these up, when not directly quoting, I try to paraphrase and find wording that conveys the tone of the conversation. It is rare that direct pronouncements of intent are made in Squadcast but the tone will often give clues as to possible development directions. Discerning between "that would be cool, but unlikely", "that's something we're looking at but not likely in the next build", "that's something we should be able to talk about very shortly", and "ewww, no", can be tricky.

When writing up the DRM question (which I should perhaps stress was directed at the upcoming pre-release build only) I paraphrased the multiple negative responses, including three negative adverbs in my single sentence summary to hopefully convey that the tone of this segment was very much in the "ewww, no" category.

All that said, I don't speak for Squad. The only dealing I have ever had with Squad is I bought their game three years ago. Nothing I say should ever be taken as a direct Squad communiqué. If something in a squadcast summary intrigues you I'd encourage you to check out the linked stream archive, jump to the rough timestamp, and get it from the horse's mouth.

Finally, please remember that the unlawful practice which DRM is typically, correctly or incorrectly, justified in combating is a taboo subject on Squadcast chats and these forums. I'd hate to get a forum infraction for inadvertently sparking a conversation about it.

 

* whilst I don't speak for Squad I feel reasonably confident in assuming their response to pay-to-win microtransactions would be negative

[NoMrBond]

On 04/03/2016 at 7:05 AM, Motokid600 said:

If DRM was implemented would that make multiple installations impossible? Please Squad.. just... no. Please.

This stemed from my question during the Squadcast which perhaps was only have been half read, I actually asked whether they were using Steam to

(a) Lock it down so 1.1-pre didn't circulate outside the testing participants

-or-

(b) Handle the massive distribution load of the constant updates.

The answer could have just been, "the second one", but it turned into something about DRM instead of why it was being handled through Steam, which was the question.

Edited March 6, 2016 by NoMrBond

[regex]

Man, the tinfoilery surrounding an obvious logistical decision is hilarious.