Older versions available on Steam and the KSP website

[Noob21]

I've been wanting to play older versions lately(0.17 in specific), but the problem is that they aren't very easily accessible, and the means as to get it are kind of blurred as to wether they're legal or not. I'd like it if Squad would have their customers be given the ability to download the previous paid versions, i.e. 0.14 and onwards. And it's not like that would be very expensive to host, plus Squad has plenty of revenue to fund that. And there is a way to give people the ability to access older versions of games on Steam, too. I really would like to see this happen, because I don't want to do questionable things to get my hands on old versions(plus some are straight up nowhere to be found). Anyone agree with me?

[RA3236]

The most update old version is 0.13.0. Found stickies in KSP discussion.

[Noob21]

1 minute ago, RA3236 said:

The most update old version is 0.13.0. Found stickies in KSP discussion.

Yes but that is a demo. What I mean is giving people who bought the game the ability to get the older paid versions, from 0.14 onwards.

[Blaarkies]

It is morally right get any older version of the game that you already own, but legally it could still be considered piracy(law has no logic, and it differs in every country).

But I agree previous versions should be easily available through a dropdown menu(like minecraft versions?), because you shouldn't have to sneak around dodgy websites to get this stuff

Edited April 8, 2016 by Blaarkies

[Noob21]

9 hours ago, Blaarkies said:

It is morally right get any older version of the game that you already own, but legally it could still be considered piracy(law has no logic, and it differs in every country).

But I agree previous versions should be easily available through a dropdown menu(like minecraft versions?), because you shouldn't have to sneak around dodgy websites to get this stuff

I wouldn't say a menu, I'd just say that you could get it at the download page on the KSP website, where it has the stuff for the current version, and then a link to another thing that lists all the older versions to download, all the way back to 0.14. Every time a new update comes out, the older one is indexed to the archives to download. And I don't know if it could really be called piracy. I am the consumer and I do have the right to own an older version of the game.

[Noob21]

Bumping this topic. I've seen Squad mention this many times, and considering the game is a full release they have nothing stopping them from doing it right now. I would like a Squad representative to explain why this hasn't happened yet.

[Kerbart]

30 minutes ago, Noob21 said:

Bumping this topic. I've seen Squad mention this many times, and considering the game is a full release they have nothing stopping them from doing it right now. I would like a Squad representative to explain why this hasn't happened yet.

To answer your question: because they don't have to. I checked the EULA and it doesn't specifically mention that it should give you access to all previous versions. And because they're busy with other things (like the 1.1 release?) I doubt that they're spending time on it. Or that the majority of the users here would rather see them spend time on that, than on, say, fixing wheel bugs and landing leg bugs. Or asteroid bugs.

On a separate note, “it’s the tone that makes the music.” Some people, less educated, less patient, less relaxed than the awesome folks at Squad, might interpret this inquiry as demanding. Which on some occasions can rub the wrong way. Some consider it “fuzzy marketing fluff” but carefully picking the right words can carry a request a long way, carelessly picking the wrong ones can crash that request quicker than a Kerbal rockit.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Kerbart
How did I miss that “s?”

[HebaruSan]

Typically, content creators work on new stuff while fans take care of curating for purposes of nostalgia. It actually looks a bit arrogant and navel-gazing for a developer to present a big menu of his works for ye mighty to look upon and despair.

[Noob21]

11 hours ago, Kerbart said:

To answer your question: because they don't have to. I checked the EULA and it doesn't specifically mention that it should give you access to all previous versions. And because they're busy with other things (like the 1.1 release?) I doubt that they're spending time on it. Or that the majority of the users here would rather see them spend time on that, than on, say, fixing wheel bugs and landing leg bugs. Or asteroid bugs.

On a separate note, “it’s the tone that makes the music.” Some people, less educated, less patient, less relaxed than the awesome folks at Squad, might interpret this inquiry as demanding. Which on some occasions can rub the wrong way. Some consider it “fuzzy marketing fluff” but carefully picking the right words can carry a request a long way, carelessly picking the wrong ones can crash that request quicker than a Kerbal rockit.

You mention the 1.1 release, but,

A. They've had YEARS to implement this feature that fans have been asking for

and

B. You make it seem as if one of the devs taking 30 minutes out of his life to upload the previous versions of the game that I guarantee they have on a hard drive to the same general hosting that they have the current versions on is hard

Squad has had years to implement this feature that they've repeatedly mentioned that will be a thing. The reason it hasn't happened can be chalked up to laziness. And as the saying goes, "the consumer is always right".

Edited April 12, 2016 by Noob21

[Red Iron Crown]

On 4/11/2016 at 3:55 AM, Noob21 said:

Squad has had years to implement this feature that they've repeatedly mentioned that will be a thing. The reason it hasn't happened can be chalked up to laziness. And as the saying goes, "the consumer is always right".

I have never seen mention from Squad that this will be a thing, do you have a link or other reference?

I would be inclined to say cost is a bigger factor than laziness (and accusing someone from whom you want something of laziness is an odd approach to getting what you want). Hosting costs money, and that money is better spent elsewhere IMO at least.

"The consumer is always right" is trite and demonstrably false. Ask anyone who has ever worked in customer service anywhere.

[Stone Blue]

While I agree, it would be nice to have all the old versions available (to paid users), no one has so far mentioned the likely customer support nightmare that would create for Squad...

I mean just look at how many posts on the forums there are about bugs and mods not working, when it turns out someone simply has older, or mismatched versions of mods?

Not to mention the support nightmare that would open up on the forums and modmakers... People posting for support of LONG dead or obsolete versions of mods...

Edited April 13, 2016 by Stone Blue

[todofwar]

I definitely would like to see this implemented. It sounds like Squad is planning on keeping this as a gradual development process forever, with KSP 2.0 being just another update rather than a sequel, which I think is an awesome strategy if they can monetize it effectively but I know I like to go back and play age of empires 1 even though I have every sequel in that series. Maybe they can pick the most stable version of each numbered release and maintain that? So 1.05 will always be available, for example, but 1.1 might not be supported because now you're on your way to the sequel. So in the future you'll have 1.05, 2.07, 3.0 etc as versions you can go back to. And I'm sure fans would be happy to curate them.

[Noob21]

4 hours ago, todofwar said:

I definitely would like to see this implemented. It sounds like Squad is planning on keeping this as a gradual development process forever, with KSP 2.0 being just another update rather than a sequel, which I think is an awesome strategy if they can monetize it effectively but I know I like to go back and play age of empires 1 even though I have every sequel in that series. Maybe they can pick the most stable version of each numbered release and maintain that? So 1.05 will always be available, for example, but 1.1 might not be supported because now you're on your way to the sequel. So in the future you'll have 1.05, 2.07, 3.0 etc as versions you can go back to. And I'm sure fans would be happy to curate them.

Well I'm sure fans would be happy to curate them, but that wouldn't be possible. Squad would have to curate them, because if they didn't there would be no sure-fire way to make sure that the people getting the old versions actually own the game.

4 hours ago, Red Iron Crown said:

I have never seen mention from Squad that this will be a thing, do you have a link or other reference?

I would be inclined to say cost is a bigger factor than laziness (and accusing someone from whom you want something of laziness is an odd approach to getting what you want). Hosting costs money, and that money is better spent elsewhere IMO at least.

"The consumer is always right" is trite and demonstrably false. Ask anyone who has ever worked in customer service anywhere.

Squad has made millions off KSP, money should not be an issue. Plus I've seen them mention it before in streams.

4 hours ago, Stone Blue said:

While I agree, it would be nice to have all the old versions available (to paid users), no one has so far mentioned the likely customer support nightmare that would create for Squad...

I mean just look at how many posts on the forums there are about bugs and mods not working, when it turns out someone simply has older, or mismatched versions of mods?

Not to mention the support nightmare that would open up on the forums and modmakers... People posting for support of LONG dead or obsolete versions of mods...

Bugs would just be something people would have to live with, and honestly the only mod makers who would even acknowledge the existence of people requesting mods for older versions would probably be willing to make them, everyone else would just ignore them. And I'm sure Squad could attach a readme(that admittedly probably nobody would read) that states that these are unsupported versions, and as such are to be maintained by yourself, with no liability.

[Stone Blue]

20 minutes ago, Noob21 said:

Bugs would just be something people would have to live with, and honestly the only mod makers who would even acknowledge the existence of people requesting mods for older versions would probably be willing to make them, everyone else would just ignore them. And I'm sure Squad could attach a readme(that admittedly probably nobody would read) that states that these are unsupported versions, and as such are to be maintained by yourself, with no liability.

While I agree with the sentiment, I think this is a fantastical picture of the way things would be...

I've seen many times in release threads, where someone post a problem & needs help... Then there are many back and forth posts, (sometimes exasperating), only to find out after much back and forth and time spent, that someone is actually running a mismatched KSP version with an incompatable mod version... I'm sure this can quickly sour mods attitudes toward the community, and providing good support...Possibly even discouraging them from further development.
I think many modders are already deadset on quickly removing past versions of mods just to head off these issues. (Which really bugs me) Some modders already seem to have ego issues from the get-go, and have made it clear they dont want to bother with the "idiot masses" who arent as intelligent as they are, and are only willing to provide minimum support/documentation/clarity on their mods.
Likewise, I could see it cluttering and possibly overtaxing and wasting Squad Customer Service time, that could better be spent elsewhere.

[Noob21]

21 minutes ago, Stone Blue said:

While I agree with the sentiment, I think this is a fantastical picture of the way things would be...

I've seen many times in release threads, where someone post a problem & needs help... Then there are many back and forth posts, (sometimes exasperating), only to find out after much back and forth and time spent, that someone is actually running a mismatched KSP version with an incompatable mod version... I'm sure this can quickly sour mods attitudes toward the community, and providing good support...Possibly even discouraging them from further development.
I think many modders are already deadset on quickly removing past versions of mods just to head off these issues. (Which really bugs me) Some modders already seem to have ego issues from the get-go, and have made it clear they dont want to bother with the "idiot masses" who arent as intelligent as they are, and are only willing to provide minimum support/documentation/clarity on their mods.
Likewise, I could see it cluttering and possibly overtaxing and wasting Squad Customer Service time, that could better be spent elsewhere.

It's sad, but true. If they do someday implement it(they really should, considering as I've already said, because the means of getting your hands on older versions is borderline illegal, even if you own it), I think there should be a sticky placed that lets people know that threads asking for support for outdated versions will be deleted. It would really benefit places like the Challenges and Mission ideas board because there could be challenges for specific versions. Plus mods would also be a nice thing for the few individuals that would show interest in modding old versions(myself included).

[todofwar]

I think mods might be one of the biggest reasons for this. You can state in your mod a set version you support, and continue to refine and add features rather than catch up to ksp versions. Obviously there are about a million downsides to this but I think there could be a certain niche that appreciates  the option. Maybe a super in depth colony mod for example. 

[Noob21]

3 hours ago, todofwar said:

I think mods might be one of the biggest reasons for this. You can state in your mod a set version you support, and continue to refine and add features rather than catch up to ksp versions. Obviously there are about a million downsides to this but I think there could be a certain niche that appreciates  the option. Maybe a super in depth colony mod for example. 

Well alternatively the mod creator(if they want this immense workload), could keep specific versions for each version and keep adding the same or similar content to each version.

[FullMetalMachinist]

I honestly don't see the utility of playing older versions.

Why would I want to got back to something that has more bugs and fewer features than what is currently available? That would be like going back to my 8 year old Dell computer instead of my 2 year old custom gaming rig. 

[KerbonautInTraining]

I think this could work, personally I've always wanted to try old versions of KSP (have you seen what air hogging could do back in 0.90?)

The older versions should definitely have a hard coded watermark or something, like the pre-release, that shows the user they're using an outdated game. 

[Red Iron Crown]

4 hours ago, KerbonautInTraining said:

The older versions should definitely have a hard coded watermark or something, like the pre-release, that shows the user they're using an outdated game. 

So the devs should spend development time coding a water mark into old, obsolete versions to help avoid support issues? Why would they do this, when that time could be spent on the current and upcoming versions? When they can avoid those support issues by simply not distributing those old, obsolete versions?

I get that there's some nostalgia value in old versions, really I do (and I was disappointed to lose all the versions prior to 0.23 I had hoarded in a hard disk failure). But asking Squad to spend money and development time to distribute and modify older versions is nonsense, IMO. Those resources are much better spent on the current version!

[todofwar]

18 hours ago, FullMetalMachinist said:

I honestly don't see the utility of playing older versions.

Why would I want to got back to something that has more bugs and fewer features than what is currently available? That would be like going back to my 8 year old Dell computer instead of my 2 year old custom gaming rig. 

New features aren't always wanted. Sometimes people might prefer a simpler less graphically intense version. And of course there's nostalgia.

It wouldn't be realistic to support every release, but as I said before having just one or two per numbered release would satisfy most people

[Stone Blue]

1 hour ago, todofwar said:

New features aren't always wanted. Sometimes people might prefer a simpler less graphically intense version. And of course there's nostalgia.

It wouldn't be realistic to support every release, but as I said before having just one or two per numbered release would satisfy most people

This ^^
And also, sometimes there is a really great mod, or few, that did not get updated and become abandoned, that you still want to play... Good examples would be B9 & KW Rocketry... I know KW last official version was for 1.0.2, and it didnt get updated for 1.0.4/.05, and I think B9 still worked in 1.0.2 also...

[Jabbman]

1 hour ago, todofwar said:

New features aren't always wanted. Sometimes people might prefer a simpler less graphically intense version. And of course there's nostalgia.[snip]

Maybe the solution would be to not update??? I'm playing 1.05 right now. No-one is going to force me to download and play 1.1, are they?

I have some versions dating back to 0.23 (I think) backed up somewhere. Again, no-one has been forced into deleting their older installs. I have these versions for nostalgia's sake, but to be honest I've only ever gone into the folders to dig out old screenshots.

[todofwar]

30 minutes ago, Jabbman said:

Maybe the solution would be to not update??? I'm playing 1.05 right now. No-one is going to force me to download and play 1.1, are they?

I have some versions dating back to 0.23 (I think) backed up somewhere. Again, no-one has been forced into deleting their older installs. I have these versions for nostalgia's sake, but to be honest I've only ever gone into the folders to dig out old screenshots.

No one is forcing you that's true, but from what I understand we're never going to see a full on sequel to KSP because they will increment us up to KSP 2.0. While this system is great especially for KSP I think that many people, myself included, often enjoy playing older games in a series. For example, I still prefer Rome Total War 1 to Rome Total War 2. Sure, keeping 1.05 around won't make sense at first, but what happens when we hit KSP 3.0 and it has GPS satelites and communications relays and a few other features that add complexity to the game, but someone just wants to fire off some rockets without all that extra stuff. They either complicate your initial game setup by including all these options, or they just agree to curate KSP 1.0 (or whichever one is most stable but close as possible to 1.0, 1.1 will be a different engine so I would assume that disqualifies it) then people can always go back and play the older versions. And as @Stone Blue mentioned, abandoned mods can live on for the older version. It may even incentivise modders to get their old, formerly abandoned mod to at least work with the closest benchmark version that they know will be supported for a long time. 

[Stone Blue]

Yup...As @todofwar said, I would consider benchmark versions of KSP to be 0.19, 0.25, 0.90, & 1.0.5 so far... As the versioning points out...