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On 18/10/2016 at 7:32 PM, Bonus Eventus said:

EDIT: I redesigned the centrifuge over the weekend. Tubes are 2.5M in diameter. They will deflate to 1.25M then fold in like before. Total diameter of the centrifuge is approximately 30M. I'm happy with most of it. I still want to do a little more work around the smaller group of gas struts (the ones painted blue), describing how they articulate a little better.

Looks so amazing!

Questions for my own satisfaction...

What is the speed of rotation planned to be, and will that be adjustable?

Are you using your own plugin for the rotation or will it be one of the many - IR, Firespitter, USI Tools or Kerbalism?

Also, the texture your latest post looks very balloon like.  Awesome!

Peace.

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Just now, theJesuit said:

Looks so amazing!

Questions for my own satisfaction...

What is the speed of rotation planned to be, and will that be adjustable?

Are you using your own plugin for the rotation or will it be one of the many - IR, Firespitter, USI Tools or Kerbalism?

Also, the texture your latest post looks very balloon like.  Awesome!

Peace.

Thanks, glad you think so.

1.) 2 RPM, I wasn't planning on it. 

2.) I've developed my own, which rotates the IVA in sync with ship model. RPM is adjustable in the CFG file.

3.) Cool, that's what I was going for.

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6 minutes ago, Bonus Eventus said:

Thanks, glad you think so.

1.) 2 RPM, I wasn't planning on it. 

2.) I've developed my own, which rotates the IVA in sync with ship model. RPM is adjustable in the CFG file.

 

Thanks for the response. 

The reason I asked was the experienced acceleration force from the rotational speed and your suggested diameter.  2 RPM is quite low at a radius of ~15m, 4 rpm would be around Munar gravity.  If the RPM is adjustable in the cfg then all the more awesome! I thought that you had developed your own plugin, I just wasn't sure.

Peace.

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16 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

Thanks for the response. 

The reason I asked was the experienced acceleration force from the rotational speed and your suggested diameter.  2 RPM is quite low at a radius of ~15m, 4 rpm would be around Munar gravity.  If the RPM is adjustable in the cfg then all the more awesome! I thought that you had developed your own plugin, I just wasn't sure.

Peace.

Kerbin is about 1/11 the size of Earth yet has the same gravity (the density of kerbin is insane) , so I actually don't know how to properly calculate this for KSP. Should we scale up all other forces equally (x11)? If we did that with centrifugal force, the rpm would be 2 (I think). I'm open to ideas, so please share :)

56 minutes ago, The-Doctor said:

Got any idea on when this may be ready?

I want to get a pre-release out by mid December.

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1 hour ago, Jimbodiah said:

What does it matter how fast the hab turns and if this calculates to 1G?

Well the point of a centrifuge is to create centrifugal force in place of the force of gravity, to keep muscle tissue and bones from atrophy. The rate of spin, or Rotations Per Minute,  as well as the radius of the centrifuge determine the force it can generate. It doesn't necessarily need to be 1g, but for obvious reasons 1g would be ideal.

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At the diameter it is, it will spin so fast it will make you nauseous. And it's just a game :wink: 

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2 hours ago, Jimbodiah said:

At the diameter it is, it will spin so fast it will make you nauseous. And it's just a game :wink: 

Well, in RL a centrifuge with a radius of 15M will generate 1G of force with 8 RPM. That's one turn every 6.7 seconds. Probably not that crazy for it to be 4RPM (that's one rotation every 13.33 seconds). At that speed I don't think it would be very dizzying. 

BTW. supposedly with training and drugs 9RPM can be made tolerable. Check out this article on artificial gravity from Atomic Rockets http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/artificialgrav.php#id--Problems_with_Spin_Grav--Spin_RPM_Limit

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4 minutes ago, Bonus Eventus said:

Well, in RL a centrifuge with a radius of 15M will generate 1G of force with 8 RPM. That's one turn every 6.7 seconds. Probably not that crazy for it to be 4RPM (that's one rotation every 13.33 seconds). At that speed I don't think it would be very dizzying. 

BTW. supposedly with training and drugs 9RPM can be made tolerable. Check out this article on artificial gravity from Atomic Rockets http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/artificialgrav.php#id--Problems_with_Spin_Grav--Spin_RPM_Limit

A good reference for this is this page: http://www.artificial-gravity.com/sw/SpinCalc/

It has a calculator that makes looking at various scenarios easy, using references from multiple papers (including the one on the Atomic Rockets page) as references for 'safe' limits.  1G isn't necessary - and may not even be desirable.  8 RPM is considered dizzying by all of them it's references - from playing with numbers for a 15m radius I'd probably aim for something like 4.5 RPM (or even 4.25) - it'll still be a bit fast, and you'll get a bit more tangential velocity than you'd like, but you'll be at a fairly comfortable third of G, and within adaptation tolerance limits for everything.  (4RPM doesn't lower your tangental velocity that much - but it does lower your artificial G-forces to one quarter Earth-normal, which is getting a bit low.)

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2 minutes ago, DStaal said:

A good reference for this is this page: http://www.artificial-gravity.com/sw/SpinCalc/

It has a calculator that makes looking at various scenarios easy, using references from multiple papers (including the one on the Atomic Rockets page) as references for 'safe' limits.  1G isn't necessary - and may not even be desirable.  8 RPM is considered dizzying by all of them it's references - from playing with numbers for a 15m radius I'd probably aim for something like 4.5 RPM (or even 4.25) - it'll still be a bit fast, and you'll get a bit more tangential velocity than you'd like, but you'll be at a fairly comfortable third of G, and within adaptation tolerance limits for everything.  (4RPM doesn't lower your tangental velocity that much - but it does lower your artificial G-forces to one quarter Earth-normal, which is getting a bit low.)

That's pretty much what @theJesuit was saying before. I think that would be fine.

Just to be clear, when I mentioned dizziness, it was meant in reference to a given player watching the in-game model spinning at 13 sec per rotation. 

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That's my go to site as well @DStaal:)

I've been thinking though about Kerbal dizziness with the rotation.  Aren't they are only 1 metre high?  If so then the differential between their heads and feet is significantly less.

On the lighter side though they do seem to spend most of their time sitting down when on board craft...

Peace.

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4 hours ago, Jimbodiah said:

At the diameter it is, it will spin so fast it will make you nauseous. And it's just a game :wink: 

Just a game... are you sure? KSP is a lifestyle choice.

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9 hours ago, theJesuit said:

That's my go to site as well @DStaal:)

I've been thinking though about Kerbal dizziness with the rotation.  Aren't they are only 1 metre high?  If so then the differential between their heads and feet is significantly less.

On the lighter side though they do seem to spend most of their time sitting down when on board craft...

Peace.

On the other hand, their body proportions mean there's going to be a significant differential within their head - and that the distance from their hearts to the tops of their heads is proportionally larger than it is in humans, both of which could mean they are more susceptible to the differentials.

I think further study is needed.  :wink:

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Regarding Fuel Tanks

The plan now is to use the Interstellar Fuel Switch plugin. It makes sense to me to have different types of tanks for all the different ways fuels, gases, liquids need to be stored, depending on their use , density, and temperature.  Something like this:

Cryogenic Liquid Fuels - Methalox, LOX, etc

Non-Cryogenic Liquid Fuels - Hydrazine/NTO, Hydrogen/NTO, etc

Higher Density Gases - Xenon, Radon, Krypton etc 

Mid Density Gases - Oxygen, Carbon Dioxide, Nitrogen, Argon etc

Lower Density Gases - Hydrogen, Helium, Neon, etc

Mid Density Liquids - Water, Liquid Oxygen, Chloride, etc

Lower Density Liquids - Liquid Hydrogen, Ammonia, Hydrazine, etc

Radioactive Fuels - Deuterium, Tritium, etc

Edited by Bonus Eventus

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I can't wait for this, I hope to have ships like this flying around the solar system, setting up outposts and stations while mining, a truly solar empire.

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I'm just going to leave this here...

 

I think fans of Kerbalism would love a part like this.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and this too...

 

Edited by Bonus Eventus

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Did someone say giant rotating inflatable greenhouse? (commence heavy breathing...)

Also those interior concepts are fantastic, I may purloin and idea or two from them myself! 

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7 hours ago, steedcrugeon said:

Did someone say giant rotating inflatable greenhouse? (commence heavy breathing...)

Also those interior concepts are fantastic, I may purloin and idea or two from them myself! 

Yeah, I planned all along to have a few greenhouse parts. Now I'm wondering if I should add a greenhouse to the first centrifuge IVA. Only issue would be if, the player doesn't have a life support mod installed. Guess I could do a couple of versions of the IVA and then use module manager patches to set the correct IVA in the cfg.

I've been working on ModuleCentrifuge again recently, trying to get to grips with resources. Think I finally figured out how, using ModuleResource.updateModuleResourceInputs method. Eventually, I want to find a way to make the module process resource requests in the background, so it's more compatible with Kerbalism.

Finally, the radiation shelter has got me thinking. Kerbalism uses a resource called "shielding" which is used to calculate the shield rating of a part. Since it's a resource, what if a resource converter is used to turn water into shielding for the part. Also since it's essentially a converter the shielding can be converted back to water. That way players will end up having more interesting scenarios and mission planning. Added bonus, Kerbalism adds reliability options for resource converters, so it can loose its efficiency over time. 

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Greenhouse could be present even without life support, for crew moral or else. At that point it doesn't matter. Like the idea of water shielding.

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Ah that's an interesting take, using water as shielding. would you have it tied in directly to the ModuleCentrifuge so that (under the principle that you'd want the want on the extremities) you would only have sufficient water concentrations when the part was rotating at a suitably steady speed?

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1 minute ago, steedcrugeon said:

Ah that's an interesting take, using water as shielding. would you have it tied in directly to the ModuleCentrifuge so that (under the principle that you'd want the want on the extremities) you would only have sufficient water concentrations when the part was rotating at a suitably steady speed?

That's an interesting thought. I was intending on making the radiation shelter, a separate part ( a zero G crew cabin). The idea being, like in the video, smallest surface area to shield, ie less water needed. Crew would transfer out into the radiation shelter, until the storm passes. 

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