tomek.piotrowski

[1.9] RemoteTech v1.9.6 [2020-02-15]

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I do like the signal strength display in 1.2 KerbNet. I wonder if that could be used with Remote Tech too? Maybe rather than single range attribute on antennae it could be more of a curve and too low signal would cause trouble like extra signal delay, packet loss (maybe complete loss of some commands on early probe cores while later ones would have better protocols) or limiting available commands.

Of course I'd rather first see RT working on 1.2 once it's out.

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Hey everyone!

I just wanted to let you guys know what is the current state of RemoteTech.

As you may know for the last 10 months or so RT development was very limited. After the departure of the main developer me and @d4rksh4de have prepared a couple of compatibility releases, but apart from that not a lot has changed. With the release of 1.2 just around the corner a broader (and more time consuming) look at the whole thing seems to be in order. I know KSP devs would love some feedback regarding CommNet to make sure it's easily moddable. Sadly it looks like none of the former developers has free time for RT anymore and as a result currently no effort to update to 1.2 is underway.

RemoteTech is one of the most popular KSP mods, people love it and many can't imagine playing without it :) It would be sad to see it abandoned.

If you're willing to take over the project and help push it forward then feel free to contact me.

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Sad days for RemoteTech. I 'm sure the mod can get better by using the 1.2 CommNet. You guys have done a great mod so far. Sad to read the above.

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I could definitely play test a development build for 1.2 compatibility but I know nothing about coding/modding/progamming so unfortunately can't help with the update in that way.

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My recommendation is that devs. add an option in game settings if you would like to play hard core mode for remote tech...
For ex.; Include time delay, No link no control, real power consumption levels, realistic ranges and so on...

No need for more mods just tweaks in game settings if wanted and that is it...

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No link = no control is included in stock pre edition. Just go to advanced options and turn off partial control.

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I think that if RemoteTech was stripped down to just add signal delay and the flight computer, that would be good enough for a lot of players in KSP 1.2.

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23 minutes ago, RoboRay said:

I think that if RemoteTech was stripped down to just add signal delay and the flight computer, that would be good enough for a lot of players in KSP 1.2.

I really liked the ability to select target for the dish. And the remotetech specific dishes/antennas.

But yeah that would pretty much cover it.

Also I'd like to remind you all, that Kerbinside had some preparations for openable new ground tracking bases.

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20 minutes ago, Ald said:

I really liked the ability to select target for the dish. And the remotetech specific dishes/antennas.

I expect that the complexity of directional antennas would return at some point if development continues...  I'm just looking for low-hanging fruit.  The signal delay and flight computer would give us most of the current RT feel for operating probes, and would probably be simpler to incorporate into 1.2 since it's adding to stock functions rather than replacing or modifying stock functions.

Edited by RoboRay

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So long as RO exists, there will be interest in RemoteTech, and I strenuously doubt (no, really, I'm hurting myself by doubting so hard) that RO will go away any time soon.  Additionally, from what I'm seeing, the stock antennas don't even reliably reach Eeloo all of the time, which means anyone using RSS, OPM, or any of the scale refactor mods will need to modify the stock system anyway.  What better way to do that than to use a ready-built antenna system that's made for this kind of thing?

What I am more curious to know is how difficult it will be to make the 'ready-built' part of that statement true.  Does 1.2 so thoroughly break RT that a total rewrite is needed, or can we get back to familiar behaviour with relatively minor modifications?

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I don't know about the targeting system. I kinda feel that if a probe losses connection normally (because RT focuses on realism) it should look for any other way of communication ex. an other probe that can reach so far, on the down side, that beats the purpose of directional antennas. I don't make sense right? Let me explain my thought a bit more. when Cassini failed to deploy its high gain directional antenna the mission wasn't doom, it had an other way to communicate with Earth (low gain antenna). That I think is demonstrated better in 1.2 with the limited probe control. I still thing thou that breaking LoS should result in total loss of control.

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@tomek.piotrowski, @d4rksh4de : do you guys have received any offer for help? I'd happily give a hand on updating RemoteTech to target KSP 1.2. I love this mod and don't want it to die.

I forked the project a while ago, just to understand how it works (in fact I made some modifications to RT but never done a pull request for them as they were very minor). I updated KSP to 1.2 this week and started to poke around the modifications, especially CommNet and Kerbnet, trying to document what I understand from the KSP code. From what I could glance from CommNet and Kerbnet, there will be quite huge modifications to the existing RT code base has a lot of code is now de facto in KSP.

The thing is I can't and wont work alone on updating RT (as this will probably be very time consuming for a single person), especially if other people have also already started to work on their side. Do some people here want to update the Remote Tech code? If yes, maybe we could collaborate, share ideas, etc.? I'll start to gather my notes and make a action plan of what could be done. Also, maybe I'll start a special thread in the plugins subforum for that.

OTOH I don't want to make it like I want to do a takeover on RT. If the maintainers feels they have some time to maintain it or still want to be part of the update, I'd just happily give a hand and follow the lead.

So, let me know :D

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IMO the RT should be rewritten on top of CommNet by extending it and bring over features such as time delay and flight computer. But this is very time consuming task and I have no time for this :( 

Currently, as I checked the RT doesn't build with KSP 1.2 because of the API changes. I can help by updating the build server to the KSP 1.2, but first, the compile errors need to be fixed.

@neitsa Please send PM to Tomek, he can send invite to RT's slack channel.

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Instead of re-writting directional antenna relay system (requirement to pinpoint each antenna on craft to some distant antenna on other craft or ground station), it might be easier to just put requirement to have at least two antenna with stock 1.2. relay capabilites to have functional relay network. Leaving everything else to stock network system to handle.

Less realistic, but much easier to accomplish and to be honest current system clutter UI quite quickly creating a mess that is just overkill to game without bringing much to fun part.

Primary focus should be signal delay and flight computer, those features are most obvious missing from stock game. Also some adjustment to antenna weight and capabilites as well as tech tree node availability should be made. Some RT antenna can also be used to cover gap in stock system. But better wait for KSP 1.2. release for that, as it will be changed a lot trough test phase before becoming final.

I'm sorry that can't help you much in coding, not enough free time to be of any help with development, even my KSP play time is very limited at the moment.

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Hi!

5 hours ago, d4rksh4de said:

IMO the RT should be rewritten on top of CommNet by extending it and bring over features such as time delay and flight computer. But this is very time consuming task and I have no time for this :( 

Yes, I also think that the end goal should be to build RT on top of CommNet. Perfectly understand that you don't have time!

5 hours ago, d4rksh4de said:

Currently, as I checked the RT doesn't build with KSP 1.2 because of the API changes. I can help by updating the build server to the KSP 1.2, but first, the compile errors need to be fixed.

I haven't tried yet but will check ASAP what can be done with the current code base to pass the compil phase.

5 hours ago, d4rksh4de said:

@neitsa Please send PM to Tomek, he can send invite to RT's slack channel.

Will do! Thanks for your reply!

4 hours ago, kcs123 said:

Primary focus should be signal delay and flight computer, those features are most obvious missing from stock game

I do agree, that should be on top of the todo list, and that'll be probably a lot of work. Next thing would probably be directional antennas / dishes. I don't have any preconceived ideas for other RT balance adjustments though.

4 hours ago, kcs123 said:

But better wait for KSP 1.2. release for that, as it will be changed a lot trough test phase before becoming final.

Agree, the API is probably not frozen yet, but I think we can at least try to check what changes can be made and even try to build RT for the pre-release and do the appropriate changes when 1.2 is out (which should probably be minor changes as the release will probably not brought enormous changes compared to the pre-release).

Thanks for your comments o/

 

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Imho the primary focus should be to make current RT work with 1.2, especially given the dev constraints.

And then, with more time, gradually transition to CommNet where possible/desirable, while current RT still works and provides a fallback.

Instantly switching to CommNet means, that people who actually prefer current RT will have nothing at first and something below current RT standard for quite some time.

 

Like you dont usually abandon a game and start from scratch as soon as a new windows version comes out...

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@Yemo You are absolutely right. Building over 1.2 additions (I.e CommNet) right now would mean a long development  phase without anything new.

We are working on compiling RT as is for the upcoming 1.2. As of now only a few blockers are still there (mostly related to UI stuffs) but I hope we'll get something soon!

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Lot of people are making an assumption about the people who use RT from what i see and that is, that everyone who uses it enables signal delay, since this is a confiigurable option that is a dangerous assumption to make i like the extended ranges from the antennas but i don't play with the signal delay on. All i'm pointing out is that in the rush to try and put something, anything out may end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

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In addition to signal delay, flight computer and more antennas, I'd like to remind of the RT's root (or additive) distance feature. Personally, I prefer it as more realistic and would love it to stay in future versions.

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Is there a way to use the stock PID or mechjeb's PID for the flight computer? I'm getting a ton of oscillation when trying to hold attitude (node, prograde, etc.). The craft swings back and forth 5-10 degress from the intended attitude

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Hey I just wanted to say I am a huge fan of this mod! I was introduced to this mod by Scott Manley's interstellar series, and I have loved it ever since. And for anyone who doesn't know if hey want to use this mod or not, just go to this little review I wrote up. Great work and happy flying! The Review I Made

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Well, I've just written in offering to help with development (whether I'll actually be able to help or not is another matter). My two pennies for development are:

  • Should be built on top of the new KSP 1.2 functionality
  • Signal delay should stay (or at least remain an option)
  • Directional dishes should stay
  • Flight computer should stay
  • Should definitely keep 1.2's distinction between relay and non-relay antennas. I've wanted this for a long time anyway.

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Is there a particular reason why the omnidirectional antenna range multiplier slider can only be set to "0" or "1", when the description (and the fact that it's a slider) implies that it can be set anywhere in between?

I was hoping to be able to set it somewhere in the middle, so my typical 4x-Communotron-32 comsats would have some extra range but not 4x the range, but the slider jumps straight from one end to the other and can't be set anywhere in between.

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7 hours ago, SilverlightPony said:

Is there a particular reason why the omnidirectional antenna range multiplier slider can only be set to "0" or "1", when the description (and the fact that it's a slider) implies that it can be set anywhere in between?

There's a GitHub issue that's been up for a while, but as was mentioned earlier, development has been slow.  The code doesn't really tell much except that the weird toggle behaviour is part of the UI, which was added rather recently compared to the rest of the mod.  It clamps slider values at or under .49 to zero and values over .49 to one--and since the slider is polled for a multiplier value after the .cfg, changing the setting in the .cfg won't help.

I believe the current thought is that it was either some test code or a copy-paste error, because it certainly makes no sense as it is right now.

Edited by Zhetaan

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Hello everyone,

On behalf of the RT team, I'd like to say we are working on porting RemoteTech to KSP v1.2.

We are currently on a test phase and (as of now), everything seems to work as it was in KSP 1.1.3: http://imgur.com/a/Oilm2

GmUGMiN.png

The next release will be a strict port of the previous RT version for the upcoming KSP version (1.2).
This also means that the very next release will *not* be build on top of CommNet and there will be (probably) no new addition, except for bugfixes.

The next phase will be to port the current code base to support CommNet as a backbone for RT.

 

@SilverlightPony I'll take a look at this issue. The slider should effectively be linear and not binary.

Edited by neitsa
add image

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