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[Minimum KSP version - 1.11] Kerbal Attachment System (KAS) v1.12


IgorZ
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On 4/27/2019 at 5:45 AM, IgorZ said:

KAS 1.2 on KSP 1.6.1 should work just fine. The mods that need legacy KAS parts will break.

Forgive my ignorance but I got a couple of questions;

I believe flexotubes are still broken in 1.8.1

Is there a list of legacy parts which are broken with KAS? Are the harpoon and similar parts also broken?

Why did they become legacies? Does being a legacy part mean that they're old and abandoned from support?

If that is the case, are there any alternatives that we can use for such parts?

 

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6 hours ago, Problemless Mods Wanter said:

I believe flexotubes are still broken in 1.8.1

Which part specifically and from what mod are you referring to? The KAS itself doesn't have any flexotubes. Some third-party mods do though.

7 hours ago, Problemless Mods Wanter said:

Is there a list of legacy parts which are broken with KAS? Are the harpoon and similar parts also broken?

Every single part from the old KAS is no more supported (see this Wiki). I.e. they are all "broken". However, I don't like term "broken" because nobody was breaking them, they are simply not maintained anymore. They become incompatible with KSP as the new versions of the game are getting released. You still can install the old KAS into a new KSP and try using it, but it's on your own risk.

7 hours ago, Problemless Mods Wanter said:

Are the harpoon and similar parts also broken? Why did they become legacies?

Harpoons were not implemented in the new KAS. It wasn't an architectural decision, I just had to switch to other priorities (the new KIS). I still keep the harpoon parts in my mind and hope to get back to them. However, the new KIS beta is my top priority for now. In the meanwhile, installing the old KAS is the best bet.

7 hours ago, Problemless Mods Wanter said:

Does being a legacy part mean that they're old and abandoned from support?

Correct. This is exactly what "legacy" means. You can install the old mod and use the parts, but only till the point when KSP changes become too significant. After this point you'll have to decide if you need the old KAS parts or the new KSP features.

7 hours ago, Problemless Mods Wanter said:

If that is the case, are there any alternatives that we can use for such parts?

Most of the old KAS parts have counterparts in the new KAS. And it's almost never "one-to-one".

A brief reference:

  • Rigid pipes from old KAS that can be 30m of length and don't require you to bring any resources to build them => TJ1 & TJ2 (the distance is very limited). No more "pipes from nowhere". If you need a pipe, you have to either make it on-site or deliver it from Kerbin. It was a key point of KAS 1.0.
  • A connection port from old KAS => JS-1.
  • Winches from old KAS => W-50 & HW-80 (no ejection function).
  • Harpoon, magnet, claw and anchor from old KAS => Nothing yet. Counterparts will be implemented somewhere in the future, but no ETA at this moment. The old concept of these parts was not good. The new one will be different, but at this moment it's too early to discuss it.
  • Never existed in old KAS #1 => RTS-1
  • Never existed in old KAS #2 => PCB-1 & CH-1
  • Never existed in old KAS #3 => BGP-400
  • Never existed in old KAS #4 => TB-60 (however, I'd advise caution in using it since it has major issues in its current state).
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2 hours ago, IgorZ said:

Which part specifically and from what mod are you referring to? The KAS itself doesn't have any flexotubes. Some third-party mods do though.

Every single part from the old KAS is no more supported (see this Wiki). I.e. they are all "broken". However, I don't like term "broken" because nobody was breaking them, they are simply not maintained anymore. They become incompatible with KSP as the new versions of the game are getting released. You still can install the old KAS into a new KSP and try using it, but it's on your own risk.

Harpoons were not implemented in the new KAS. It wasn't an architectural decision, I just had to switch to other priorities (the new KIS). I still keep the harpoon parts in my mind and hope to get back to them. However, the new KIS beta is my top priority for now. In the meanwhile, installing the old KAS is the best bet.

Correct. This is exactly what "legacy" means. You can install the old mod and use the parts, but only till the point when KSP changes become too significant. After this point you'll have to decide if you need the old KAS parts or the new KSP features.

Most of the old KAS parts have counterparts in the new KAS. And it's almost never "one-to-one".

A brief reference:

  • Rigid pipes from old KAS that can be 30m of length and don't require you to bring any resources to build them => TJ1 & TJ2 (the distance is very limited). No more "pipes from nowhere". If you need a pipe, you have to either make it on-site or deliver it from Kerbin. It was a key point of KAS 1.0.
  • A connection port from old KAS => JS-1.
  • Winches from old KAS => W-50 & HW-80 (no ejection function).
  • Harpoon, magnet, claw and anchor from old KAS => Nothing yet. Counterparts will be implemented somewhere in the future, but no ETA at this moment. The old concept of these parts was not good. The new one will be different, but at this moment it's too early to discuss it.
  • Never existed in old KAS #1 => RTS-1
  • Never existed in old KAS #2 => PCB-1 & CH-1
  • Never existed in old KAS #3 => BGP-400
  • Never existed in old KAS #4 => TB-60 (however, I'd advise caution in using it since it has major issues in its current state).

Thank you so much for a very detailed answer.

It is very sad to see that most parts are indeed in legacy state.

But it's great to hear that you are speaking of new ones, can't wait for them.

Also, the flexotubes I was refering to were from

 

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I just found that the resource transfer station connection does not transfer ore.  This may be either a bug, something not done, or a feature.  If the former, please add to the list.  If it's simply not added yet, please add to the list.  If Feature, I'm sure you have your reasons.  

Thanks for all your hard work!  This mod makes KSP better and will probably soon be assimilated into the main game as DLC

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@CaptainPyke You should be able to transfer ore just fine using an RTS <==> JS 1 connection.

I just tested by adding radial holding tanks to a couple of stock crater crawlers and driving them just off the runway before linking them up and doing a transfer. It worked just fine.

NOTE: make sure that the link mode on the pipe is set to Docked. Also if you have the obey transfer rules option enabled in difficulty settings then make sure there are no blocking parts (like heat shields or decouplers) between the tanks and the RTS/JS connection points.

Spoiler

A2c6ttV.jpg

 

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12 hours ago, feluxution said:

can you pls add the rosseta better said philae landing legs again. i liked them so much

I cannot remember any leg part in KAS. Why do you believe you've got it from KAS?

3 hours ago, CaptainPyke said:

I just found that the resource transfer station connection does not transfer ore.  This may be either a bug, something not done, or a feature.  If the former, please add to the list.  If it's simply not added yet, please add to the list.  If Feature, I'm sure you have your reasons.

The `Ore` is not different from any other resource. It must be flowing thru RTS part as all other resources. However, keep in mind that RTS part obeys the game's rules. It means, that it ensures does it best to ensure if both the source and target parts have access to the resources within the vessels. I'd recommend verifying if you're playing in the "obey resources transfer" mode, and the ore related parts are not blocked by the no-pass parts.

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21 hours ago, IgorZ said:

The `Ore` is not different from any other resource. It must be flowing thru RTS part as all other resources. However, keep in mind that RTS part obeys the game's rules. It means, that it ensures does it best to ensure if both the source and target parts have access to the resources within the vessels. I'd recommend verifying if you're playing in the "obey resources transfer" mode, and the ore related parts are not blocked by the no-pass parts.

obey resources transfer was off. The RTS line Was connected a good dozen parts from the ICRU...  I will try a closer connection.

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On 12/11/2019 at 10:47 PM, Aelfhe1m said:

@CaptainPyke You should be able to transfer ore just fine using an RTS <==> JS 1 connection.

I just tested by adding radial holding tanks to a couple of stock crater crawlers and driving them just off the runway before linking them up and doing a transfer. It worked just fine.

NOTE: make sure that the link mode on the pipe is set to Docked. Also if you have the obey transfer rules option enabled in difficulty settings then make sure there are no blocking parts (like heat shields or decouplers) between the tanks and the RTS/JS connection points.

  Reveal hidden contents

A2c6ttV.jpg

 

OK so I confirm that in docked mode I Can transfer the ore.  But it made my rover go crazy.  (Sas off, brakes on.)  Looked like the cable might have been retracting.  Dock mode initiated from port, not station.

 

***edit***
I see now that this is meant to go from RTS to RTS.  I had assumed, wrongly as it turns out, that I could go from RTS to a JS-1.

Edited by CaptainPyke
Forum brevity
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On 10/29/2019 at 1:39 AM, IgorZ said:

Technically, you can. But it's just a question of time when it turn into something weird. Today's KSP doesn't like vessels, attached to the ground.

Today I Learned...

*swears* Is there another way of stopping bases? The darn things just won't hold still.

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On 12/12/2019 at 9:10 PM, CaptainPyke said:

OK so I confirm that in docked mode I Can transfer the ore.  But it made my rover go crazy.  (Sas off, brakes on.)  Looked like the cable might have been retracting.  Dock mode initiated from port, not station.

In the docked mode you transfer resources without KAS. It's a built-in ability in KSP to move resources between the parts: when the vessels are docked, any two parts belong to the same vessel. Could you please make a video to demonstrate the issue? And keep in mind that when you move resources within one vessel (from the KSP standpoint), the CoM is changing as it's a one big rigid vessel. Even though, the RTS link is not rigid. The behavior may not be what you'd expect to see. KAS is out control here, the best thing it can do is telling the game that there is a non-fixed link between the two parts.

On 12/14/2019 at 1:56 PM, Laie said:

Is there another way of stopping bases? The darn things just won't hold still.

There were mentions in this thread about some MKS (?) module that adds insane inertia to the part. It's essentially the same as an fixed anchor, except it's not fixed (and has its own side effects). Didn't find it thru a quick search though.

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On 12/13/2019 at 6:10 AM, CaptainPyke said:

OK so I confirm that in docked mode I Can transfer the ore.  But it made my rover go crazy.  (Sas off, brakes on.)  Looked like the cable might have been retracting. 

I have seen something similar when attaching a pipe between a rover and a heavy tank. The rover jumped up and was pulled towards the tank.

It's probably the rover wheels' autostruts forcefully detaching from the rover body and attaching to the tank some distance away. "Docked" mode is tricky if there are wheels or legs on either side of the pipe.

Edited by HansAcker
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8 hours ago, HansAcker said:

It's probably the rover wheels' autostruts forcefully detaching from the rover body and attaching to the tank some distance away. "Docked" mode is tricky if there are wheels or legs on either side of the pipe.

Yes, this happens. Turn on visualize autostruts in the Alt-F12 menu to see. This is why before I dock/join ships, I go the the Alt-F12 menu first to "visualize autostruts" to make sure that each vessel obeys the following rules.

#1 Root part must be set to "autostrut disabled".

#2 Any part attached to root must have "autostrut disabled".

#3 Change any "autostrut to heaviest part" to "autostrut to grandparent" (without violating the 1st and 2nd rule).

That way, when they dock, and the combined vessel gets re-rooted, there are no surprises. Of course, for new ships, I already apply those rules in the VAB/SPH. But I still have ships in-game from before I learned those rules.

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On 12/24/2019 at 8:36 PM, bcink said:

I've tried turning the winch and the connector into docking ports, but it doesn't seem to work unless joined together in the VAB first. Any idea if this type of functionality is possible?

Winches and docking ports are conceptually incompatible. In the editor the checking logic is limited (there are reasons), so you technically you can attach anything to anything. But in flight there are constraints. No way a winch can be attached to a docking port. The only allowed counterpart for winch is JS-1.

 

Edited by IgorZ
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On 12/27/2019 at 5:54 PM, EdwardB3020 said:

The joint pipes don't work

If you want us to sympathize, this statement is enough. However, if you need the problem to be solved, we need steps to reproduce and the logs (please, follow the link and read how to get the right log). A short video would be very welcomed too.

On 12/27/2019 at 8:19 PM, jmbailey2000 said:

First, AWESOME mods!!! Love KIS, KAS, etc. 

Second.....I can get any part to be stackable (StackableItemOverride) within the Inventory except KAS parts (i.e. JS1, pylons, etc.). Is this a known issue or maybe cannot be done any more under the latest version?

Thanks!

Every module that is whitelisted will be allowed to stack. KIS doesn't treat KAS modules anyhow special. What may have happen in your setup is that some other mod applied new modules to the KAS parts.

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8 hours ago, IgorZ said:

If you want us to sympathize, this statement is enough. However, if you need the problem to be solved, we need steps to reproduce and the logs (please, follow the link and read how to get the right log). A short video would be very welcomed too.

Every module that is whitelisted will be allowed to stack. KIS doesn't treat KAS modules anyhow special. What may have happen in your setup is that some other mod applied new modules to the KAS parts.

I made a clean install and it is the same. 

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14 hours ago, EdwardB3020 said:

I made a clean install and it is the same. 

I did it too, and it works just fine to me. In fact, that's how I test my mods: I do a clean install. If the mod doesn't work, I'd never publish it the first place. That's why we need your reproduce steps. No reproduce steps, no fix. Sorry.

Edited by IgorZ
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 12/18/2019 at 9:13 AM, IgorZ said:

@HansAcker @bcqJC , guys, can you please make a repo case for me using only the stock parts? So that I could easily reproduce it on the launch pad.

This is the effect I meant:

https://imgur.com/Teguj15 (Edit: Here's one with autostrut visualization: https://imgur.com/P1LAzqK - the wheel autostrut lines do not change. maybe "forced" autostruts work different to what I expected)

Example savegame: https://hastebin.com/raw/orelozoleh (alternate: https://pastebin.com/XfLYywbk )

Set the connector to "docked" and the rover jumps. The ore tanks move very little.

Edited by HansAcker
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On 12/30/2019 at 11:00 PM, IgorZ said:

I did it too, and it works just fine to me. In fact, that's how I test my mods: I do a clean install. If the mod doesn't work, I'd never publish it the first place. That's why we need your reproduce steps. No reproduce steps, no fix. Sorry.

Environment:
    Win10
    KSP 1.8.1 with all DLCs
    KAS
        CommunityCategoryKit (included with KAS)
    ModuleManager 4.1.3
    
Steps:
    Start a Sandbox Game.
    Go to SPH.
    Turn on "visualize autostruts".
    Create a "Rover" vehicle with the following parts:
        Mk2 Lander Can; variant=Rover; controlPoint=Forward; orient so that the cab/windshield is facing forward.
        Add 2 pairs of TR-2L Ruggedized Vehicular Wheels at the front and back of the vehicle.
        Add a JS-1 joint socket at the rear of the vehicle. Make sure that it sticks out so a Kerbal can attach a pipe to it later.
        Add a some batteries to the rover.
    Launch the rover and park it to the side of the runway where it won't trigger an error message since you're going to launch another vehicle.
    Don't forget to put the Rover in "park" so that it doesn't move around.
    Exit to Space Center.
    Go to SPH and create an ore tank "Cluster" with the following parts:
        PPD-12 Cupola Module. Point it upwards.
        Add a Large Holding Tank to the bottom of the cupola. Set the Ore to maximum.
        Copy the Large Holding Tank and create a cluster of 6 around the Large Holding Tank attached to the cupola.
        Place at least 1 RTS-1 Resource Transfer Station at any of the outside tanks.
        You should end up with a bunch of ore tanks all filled to the max. If they're not, make sure they're filled with ore.
    Launch the "Cluster".
    Switch to the "Rover".
    Release the brakes and move the rover beside the cluster.
    Set the brakes to park the rover.
    EVA a Kerbal.
    Switch to the Kerbal.
    Get the Kerbal to lay pipe from the RTS-1 to the rover's JS-1 socket.
    While still controlling the Kerbal, select the JS-1 socket, if the PAW for the JS-1 is not up.
        You should see that Link Mode=UNDOCKED.
    Toggle the Link Mode to DOCKED.
    See the rover jump.

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On 1/16/2020 at 11:05 PM, bcqJC said:

Add 2 pairs of TR-2L Ruggedized Vehicular Wheels at the front and back of the vehicle.

Now that you write that - I never tested it with any other wheels, either. The TR-2L with Kerbal Motion's patented Kraken Suspension are notoriously bouncy under heavy vehicles.

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