KSP and VR

[halbert5150]

I think KSP would make a fantastic VR game. Just need to add a few things in the cockpit like a screen to show the map view etc. What do you guys think.

[Rocket In My Pocket]

I'm not against the idea but...

How much of your actual game time do you spend in IVA?

I can't see how VR would be helpful or comfortable for the long periods of time you are going to spend in the VAB designing rockets or on the map screen doing maneuvers.

[halbert5150]

If the game was VR I would spend all my time in IVA. I also think building in the VAB would be amazing if you could walk around the ship your building.

[Rocket In My Pocket]

I'd say Raster Prop Monitor would be a required mod for your idea.

So you could actually pilot it adequately from IVA.

[halbert5150]

Yes I use Raster Prop. I have also used stock KSP to go from launch to orbit, to the mun and back to kerbin. All in IVA but I did have to use the map view once to set up the ejection burn so that I would encounter the mun correctly. So I like IVA as it is but it would just be amazing as VR.

[cubinator]

I think all the VAB/SPH mechanics could be made to work quite comfortably with hand controllers like those on the Vive. Imagine picking up a command pod and physically reaching to place it on top of your rocket! That along with interactive RPM buttons would make for a very cool experience. One could have an exterior "control panel" for controlling the craft while in external view as well. All this is quite a lot to ask, and so while I'd be really excited for it I think we'd have to wait a good while for it, and there's no problem with that. It would also be very taxing on the computer, so I suspect something of this scale would require some major overhauls and/or pulling some sliders all the way to the left in the main menu. All in all, I support VR integration in KSP! 

[Curveball Anders]

3 hours ago, cubinator said:

All in all, I support VR integration in KSP! 

After having to go through several bad experiences of first 3D and lately VR to software _not_ designed for it I have to cast my vote in the opposite direction.

Adding VR support to a game not designed for VR from scratch is an painful exercise in the futile.

IM(nv)HO

 

 

[cubinator]

@Curveball Anders true, it would require a tremendous amount of rework. What do you think would happen if KSP was made a VR game? Would it be too hard to play comfortably, too taxing on the computers, some other problem that would make it a bad game to put on a headset for?

[Curveball Anders]

23 hours ago, cubinator said:

@Curveball Anders true, it would require a tremendous amount of rework. What do you think would happen if KSP was made a VR game? Would it be too hard to play comfortably, too taxing on the computers, some other problem that would make it a bad game to put on a headset for?

I'd say that most of the game would be unplayable.

VR requires a game centred on an FPS view, and in KSP that is just a tiny little (and not even necessary) bit (IVA).

Everything else is third person.

While it would be possible to force all or at least most of that rest into an FPS view it would be a complete and utter disaster.

Tacking on VR to games never intended for it the biggest threat to the emergence of good VR games.

Because people will try them, and decide that it's just another stupid fad and move on.

While games like EvE Valkyrie and others designed for VR might be just what's needed.

 

 

[blorgon]

16 minutes ago, Curveball Anders said:

I'd say that most of the game would be unplayable.

VR requires a game centred on an FPS view, and in KSP that is just a tiny little (and not even necessary) bit (IVA).

Everything else is third person.

While it would be possible to force all or at least most of that rest into an FPS view it would be a complete and utter disaster.

Tacking on VR to games never intended for it the biggest threat to the emergence of good VR games.

Because people will try them, and decide that it's just another stupid fad and move on.

While games like EvE Valkyrie and others designed for VR might be just what's needed.

Having never played anything in VR, I don't see how a third person view of your craft wouldn't be sufficiently comfortable. Instead of the 'camera' being centered on your spacecraft, it could be where the traditional camera is—and being able to switch to a different perspective, like a hullcam view, would be nice too. You'd be able to look around and zoom in/out just like you can now, but with the added immersion of a seamless game world. The real meat of the VR experience would, of course, be in IVA, and in EVA if the devs felt like adding a first-kerbal view. I would do some questionable things if it meant I could fly the ALCOR in VR.

[juanml82]

I think KSP would first need a graphics overhaul. Then it needs a manned pods overhaul - most of them have awkward placed windows, so what's the point in playing in IVA if you can't really see outside? So the first second thing would be to remake the pods into something with larger, better positioned windows.

 

And then scene changes should be remade so they make sense and don't break immersion in a VR enviroment. So, for instance, the map view should "teleport" you to mission control, were you see a monitor with the map view in front of you (and you can zoom into it) but if you turn left, you see a kerbal watching, I don't know, the resource overlay, the tracking station, some KAC/KER/MJ styled info panels, etc. So you feel like you are at an actual alien mission control facility following the mission in real time.

The admin building should be an actual meeting room, with the four kerbals in charge of strategies modeled in 3d and bickering with each other as you make your choices, the contract facility should also feel like an office rather than a contract list, and so on.

ETA:

Of course, VR could already work great for a cockpit FPS view while flying at Kerbin. But if you're planning fleet operations in Jool, that's another matter (and then, again, plenty of things in stock KSP don't work well for fleet operations in Jool)

Edited July 9, 2016 by juanml82

[cubinator]

Just now, juanml82 said:

Sounds interesting, but again sounds almost like a totally different game in terms of the amount of rework required. I think it would take too much effort to be feasible. It would have to be a new game made from scratch specifically for VR, as @Curveball Anders said.

[Squeaky]

There's a program on steam called myDream Swift (I think).

From what I understand it's very similar to virtual desktop (as in you play non VR games on a virtual screen that's has a customisable size)

 

With the vives camera it also provides the ability to see your keyboard and mouse.

This mode would be great for VAB/SPH and normal flight.

 

However it also has a First person mode in which it pretty much converts head movement to mouse movement. (Go iva and right click)

I'm not sure but if the FPS mode has a hotkey then I think we may have a fairly decent temporary solution.

 

I'll give it a go tomorrow and let you know if anyone's interested 

 

[THX1138]

On 09/07/2016 at 2:51 AM, Squeaky said:

There's a program on steam called myDream Swift (I think).

From what I understand it's very similar to virtual desktop (as in you play non VR games on a virtual screen that's has a customisable size)

 

With the vives camera it also provides the ability to see your keyboard and mouse.

This mode would be great for VAB/SPH and normal flight.

 

However it also has a First person mode in which it pretty much converts head movement to mouse movement. (Go iva and right click)

I'm not sure but if the FPS mode has a hotkey then I think we may have a fairly decent temporary solution.

 

I'll give it a go tomorrow and let you know if anyone's interested 

 

That sounds perfect.

[purpleivan]

Although VR would probably be an interesting thing to experience within something like KSP, there's a bit problem with it for this particular game; controls.

Even with Raster Prop Monitor allowing the player to remain in IVA throughout the mission, you really need to us the keyboard for sufficiently rapid control of the vehicle. Some controls could be moved to the VR systems' controllers, but these would not be sufficient to handle the number of actions that the player would need to access quickly, in order to control the vehicle sufficiently.

Control is one of the biggest issues that a developer needs to address when working on a VR project (I'm currently in the early stages of one now using the HTC Vive) and that experience tells me that KSP as a whole simply isn't a good fit for VR for that reason.

One part of KSP that probably would work well with however is EVA, as the controls are much simpler.

[Warzouz]

That would be nice, especially in EVA on the ground, or even in space. IVA could be nice too. But windows should be broaden even if it's not realistic.

But KSP is not designed for VR. You couldn't simply plug a device and hope for the best. The commands are numerous and very keyboard oriented and the FOV is quite narrow.

Most of the interface should have to be totally redone (many readings are too small).

It could be interesting, but its for a KSP 2.0 designed for that.

[eddiew]

We had this thread a few weeks ago... my 2p remains that it would be highly disorienting. KSP is mostly world-in-hand perspective, and has no sane way to translate that to the camera-in-world that VR needs. How would you map head-turning-left into a camera movement in the game? You can't look away from your active vessel, so you'd have to spin the player around it, which sounds nauseating 

Much rather have a 48" monitor on my wall that I could dedicated to KSP

[beelzerob]

5 hours ago, eddiew said:

We had this thread a few weeks ago... my 2p remains that it would be highly disorienting. KSP is mostly world-in-hand perspective, and has no sane way to translate that to the camera-in-world that VR needs. How would you map head-turning-left into a camera movement in the game? You can't look away from your active vessel, so you'd have to spin the player around it, which sounds nauseating.

This would work in the same way it works in Lucky's Tale, where your view is always centered on him, but you can look around.  True, you'd have to spin the "camera" (yourself) around the station to see different angles, but that doesn't sicken everyone.  The comfort solution for that is that the view jumps X degrees around instead of continuously. Many VR games offer that as an option. 

I don't really care about IVA since it  lacks gameplay value at this point, but I just want to float along with my ship above the planet, or trail my shuttle as it comes in for landing.  Perspective would be so much better for all landing scenarios....

I suspect adding VR capability to KSP might not be as involved as before, as both Unreal and Unity have touted their engine's seamless support for it.  Shrug