GregroxMun

The v1.2 Hype Train Thread - Prerelease is Out

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1 minute ago, Andem said:

Exactly. I was under the impression that there were certain areas in an equatorial LKO where you would temporarily lose communication. The tier two setup would patch the holes in the system and add some comms for polar orbit, and the tier three would patch all of the holes in the ground system.

That would render you unable to achieve orbit until after you've upgraded the tracking station. Wouldn't that break the game pretty severely?

Best,
-Slashy

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1 minute ago, GoSlash27 said:

That would render you unable to achieve orbit until after you've upgraded the tracking station. Wouldn't that break the game pretty severely?

Not if it's a manned flight.

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4 minutes ago, Andem said:

Also, no. @RoverDude has stated that you still have control, just limited abilities (binary throttle control, no ASAS, etc.)

For the early career probes, there is no SAS or at best stability assist. Not enough to circularize when out of communication range.

 

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Just now, GoSlash27 said:

That would render you unable to achieve orbit until after you've upgraded the tracking station. Wouldn't that break the game pretty severely?

Best,
-Slashy

As far as I can tell it wouldn't do that. You do still have some control of probes (and full control of manned craft) when not in range.

And is it confirmed that there is no upgrade sequence or is that speculation? Real life has kept me from the streams since yesterday afternoon and will until tomorrow morning.

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17 minutes ago, Iamsodarncool said:

Not if it's a manned flight.

True, but base facilities basically allow for 3 tonnes to orbit. Not much science available that way until you upgrade tracking. Less- skilled players will bog down trying to scrounge cash for the upgrade.

 Well... actually they won't, because ground tracking stations.

Best,
-Slashy

17 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

And is it confirmed that there is no upgrade sequence or is that speculation? Real life has kept me from the streams since yesterday afternoon and will until tomorrow morning.

From the career streams I saw yesterday, early career probes don't lose contact at any point during their flights in LKO. If you try to go to the Mun without a 5k antenna, you will lose contact.
I heard (but did not see demonstrated) that the relay stations are less powerful than KSC. KSC upgrades for sure (5G, 50G, 100G), but I don't know if the relays also upgrade..

 I'm personally kinda hoping that they don't. That'd give me an excuse to use the Mk3 cargo plane parts and engines to deliver more powerful relays out to the boonies.

Best,
-Slashy

Edited by GoSlash27

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15 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

That would render you unable to achieve orbit until after you've upgraded the tracking station. Wouldn't that break the game pretty severely?

Best,
-Slashy

Um, no. not at all. if you have a probe that early you also should have a gimballing engine that you can thrust limit, not including the fact that you already have a manned capsule in the first place. What it does mean is that you need a reliable satellite launcher so that you can build a LKO network so that you can go beyond Kerbin Orbit. So, it's actually holding players back until they learn how to make a good and reliable launch vehicle, which is something already needed to progress farther anyway. Besides, RT only has one tracking station in it. They don't seem to have horribly broken, downright impossible games, do they?

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From all the discussion here, I'm more getting the impression this update will be a save-game breaker.

This whole bit about comms; I have probes out on missions to Eve, Duna, and Dres ... am I going to lose them? Should I put up a polar satellite array in orbit now? Likewise for my deep space missions; should I start building a deep space relay network? Are there any preliminary specifications available for the new antennas (if there are any) or changes to old?

I have no confidence what-so-ever that these developers know what "backward compatibility" means. I've a very strong inclination that I'll be starting my Science game over for a 5th time now. :/

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7 minutes ago, Andem said:

Um, no. not at all. if you have a probe that early you also should have a gimballing engine that you can thrust limit, not including the fact that you already have a manned capsule in the first place. What it does mean is that you need a reliable satellite launcher so that you can build a LKO network so that you can go beyond Kerbin Orbit. So, it's actually holding players back until they learn how to make a good and reliable launch vehicle, which is something already needed to progress farther anyway. Besides, RT only has one tracking station in it. They don't seem to have horribly broken, downright impossible games, do they?

Andem,
 Ya know... I simply don't have the energy to debate all of this with you. 1.2 has ground tracking stations, period, end of sentence, full stop. If that disappoints you, my condolences. They do have the option of disabling it if you wish to use some other system for networks... or none at all.

Best,
-Slashy

/ Let the hype train roll!

Edited by GoSlash27

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3 minutes ago, LordFerret said:

From all the discussion here, I'm more getting the impression this update will be a save-game breaker.

This whole bit about comms; I have probes out on missions to Eve, Duna, and Dres ... am I going to lose them? Should I put up a polar satellite array in orbit now? Likewise for my deep space missions; should I start building a deep space relay network? Are there any preliminary specifications available for the new antennas (if there are any) or changes to old?

I have no confidence what-so-ever that these developers know what "backward compatibility" means.

The comms system can be turned on or off.  You don't have to play with it.  I'd call that backward compatibility.

3 minutes ago, LordFerret said:

I've a very strong inclination that I'll be starting my Science game over for a 5th time now. :/

You could do what I do and not update. :wink:

I'm pretty hype to finally leave my current install, though.  It's reaching retirement age.

Edited by klgraham1013

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1 minute ago, GoSlash27 said:

Andem,
 Ya know... I simply don't have the energy to debate all of this with you. 1.2 has ground tracking stations, so all of this is moot. If you don't like that, my condolences. They do have the option of disabling it if you wish to use some other system for networks... or none at all.

Best,
-Slashy

/ Let the hype train roll!

You completely 100% misinterpret. But agreed, not worth the effort of debating what is basically already decided.

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Any idea if there will be contracts in career mode to help you establish the network?

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4 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

You could do what I do and not update.

Yes, and if I don't update I'll not be getting any fixed rover wheels either (among other things v1.1.3 is lacking). :/

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12 minutes ago, Andem said:

You completely 100% misinterpret.

*Shrug* If you say so, I probably do. :wink:

I'll tell you what you are 100% misinterpreting: The meaning of the word "hype".

 Not saying you shouldn't complain about everything you disapprove of, disagree with, or find disappointing, but *really*... must you do it here? This is the Hype Train, not the disappointment wagon. Nobody here cares, and that fact really shouldn't surprise or aggravate you.

Sorry,

-Slashy

 

Edited by GoSlash27

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Since there seems to be some confusion in this thread.

Kerbin has a planet wide DSN.  Heck, we had a planet wide network in time for Mercury.  Losing comms with our vessels (other than things like occlusion by other planetary bodies) simply is not a thing in real life, and it's not a thing for our Kerbals.

There are sufficient built in tracking centers to ensure a probe will never lose contact with Kerbin if they can see Kerbin (i.e. are not occluded by another planetary body).  The power of these tracking centers upgrades with your KSC TC level.  

For those that forgot that planet-wide networks were a thing even in the early days of manned spaceflight, observe the MSFN in all of it's glory.

Mercury_Tracking_Network_2.png

Edited by RoverDude

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The tracking stations are perfectly realistic.  As for having some more unique designs, would have been nice, but not really necessary and I am just grateful @RoverDude and the team re-evaluated having them at all.  Maybe sometime in the future when they have more time.

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8 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

The power of these tracking centers upgrades with your KSC TC level.  

RoverDude,

 Do you know off the top of your head (and can you share) what the ranges of the remote relays are at the upgrade levels? It's my understanding that the KSC tracking center goes 5G/50G/100G. Is that correct?

Thanks,
-Slashy

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Just now, GoSlash27 said:

RoverDude,

 Do you know off the top of your head (and can you share) what the ranges of the remote relays are at the upgrade levels? It's my understanding that the KSC tracking center goes 5G/50G/100G. Is that correct?

Thanks,
-Slashy

That's correct.

A 5G antenna talking to another 5G antenna would be able to communicate at a range of 5Gm.

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5 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

That's correct.

A 5G antenna talking to another 5G antenna would be able to communicate at a range of 5Gm.

RoverDude,

 Sorry, what I mean to say is if the KSC tracking station is at level 2 (50Gm), what range would the Harvester-Massif tracking station be? Also 50G? 5G? Something else?

Thanks,
-Slashy

Edited by GoSlash27

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1 minute ago, GoSlash27 said:

RoverDude,

 Sorry, what I mean to say is if the KSC tracking station is at level 2 (50Gm), what range would the Harvester-Massif tracking station be at? Also 50G? 5G? Something else?

Thanks,
-Slashy

I think they said the ground stations scale with the tracking center.

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Ah sorry.  All tracking stations on Kerbin will have the same range.  So everything ties to your TC upgrade.

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22 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

*Shrug* If you say so, I probably do. :wink:

I'll tell you what you are 100% misinterpreting: The meaning of the word "hype".

 Not saying you shouldn't complain about everything you disapprove of, disagree with, or find disappointing, but *really*... must you do it here? This is the Hype Train, not the disappointment wagon. Nobody here cares, and that fact really shouldn't surprise or aggravate you.

Sorry,

-Slashy

 

Do you suggest I go make a "Like All Updates it's a Mixed Bag But I'm Still Excited Train" thread? :sticktongue: Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely still very hyped for this update, but I was also pretty hyped for No Man's Sky Lie, and I think everyone knows how that turned out.

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1 minute ago, RoverDude said:

Ah sorry.  All tracking stations on Kerbin will have the same range.  So everything ties to your TC upgrade.

Thanks!

 So just so I'm 100% clear on this, the remote antennas have the same range as the KSC tracking station? When KSC is at 5G, the remote sites are also 5G and so- on?

 

 

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1 minute ago, GoSlash27 said:

Thanks!

 So just so I'm 100% clear on this, the remote antennas have the same range as the KSC tracking station? When KSC is at 5G, the remote sites are also 5G and so- on?

 

 

Yes.

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Just now, RoverDude said:

Yes.

RoverDude,

 Thanks and I appreciate your time and attention!

This is gonna rawk,

-Slashy

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Since the question came up from go slash and seemed to get a bit lost, do we lose contanct on launching rockets?

I remember that being a real issue with remotesat. Of course, you still alway had manual control at least over your orientation, because the mod couldn't cut that control. Think it also cheated a bit by giving you full connection until the first staging event, but I might be wrong about that.

Of course nothing of that makes realistic sense, since rockets follow automated programs, no matter if they got connection or not.

Edited by Temeter

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