Shpaget Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Wouldn't just lying on the floor be relatively safe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Steve Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 30 minutes ago, Shpaget said: Wouldn't just lying on the floor be relatively safe? I think so, but rather uncomfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegarrison Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Ultimate Steve said: If I was paying a quarter of a million dollars to go into space, I would want to float around a bit. I can almost guarantee that most people agree with that sentiment! Although I agree with you, it is crucially important to inform the passengers of when they should get back in. If one of the seats broke in flight, that would be probably the most important game of musical chairs in the history of the world. Not *that* important. Yes, I'm sure you want to be in your seat during the high g portions of flight, but I bet you would be OK if you just found some space to lie on the floor. (Assuming there is such space on the floor.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Ultimate Steve said: If I was paying a quarter of a million dollars to go into space, I would want to float around a bit. I can almost guarantee that most people agree with that sentiment! Although I agree with you, it is crucially important to inform the passengers of when they should get back in. If one of the seats broke in flight, that would be probably the most important game of musical chairs in the history of the world. Passengers will get several hours of training beforehand, IIRC, I would imagine “get in the damn seat when Alexa says so!” will be drilled into them pretty hard. I would also imagine that anyone who fails to do so will suddenly no longer be covered by BO’s liability insurance, and may face other legal repercussions as well, all of which they will have previously agreed to whilst signing what will surely be mountains of waivers and other paperwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Ultimate Steve said: I think so, but rather uncomfortable. Make sense to pad it a bit anyway, also gravity should return fairly gradually as air resistance increases, so you have some time between floating and getting stuck to the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaverickSawyer Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 On 10/17/2018 at 10:24 AM, Ultimate Steve said: If I was paying a quarter of a million dollars to go into space, I would want to float around a bit. I can almost guarantee that most people agree with that sentiment! Although I agree with you, it is crucially important to inform the passengers of when they should get back in. If one of the seats broke in flight, that would be probably the most important game of musical chairs in the history of the world. Having sat in one of the cabin mockup seats... I highly doubt that you can break them short of a angle grinder or a cutting torch. They're stoutly built. Quite comfortable, though, once they're properly adjusted. 20 hours ago, magnemoe said: Make sense to pad it a bit anyway, also gravity should return fairly gradually as air resistance increases, so you have some time between floating and getting stuck to the floor. You're forgetting the parachute deployment and landing. Yeah, there's a retrothruster system on landing, but it's still a bit of a jolt if you watch the footage from the test flights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shpaget Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 From chute deployment to landing you have plenty of time to strap yourself into a seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 They're not gonna need a bigger boat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotius Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 1 hour ago, CatastrophicFailure said: They're not gonna need a bigger boat... Unless something goes BOOOOOOOMMMM! on the landing deck. Which is always a possibility. Then BO will have a very big, very damaged ship and a huge repair bill. I definitely see the advantages of having a landing platform that is also a proper ship - but a relatively cheap barge is IMO a safer bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Scotius said: Unless something goes BOOOOOOOMMMM! on the landing deck. Which is always a possibility. Then BO will have a very big, very damaged ship and a huge repair bill. I definitely see the advantages of having a landing platform that is also a proper ship - but a relatively cheap barge is IMO a safer bet. I'm still skeptical that they're gonna land a booster that big on a moving(!!!) ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrandedonEarth Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said: I'm still skeptical that they're gonna land a booster that big on a moving(!!!) ship. It is incredible, yes. All part of the oneupmanship between Musk and Bezos.... ”I landed my suborbital booster on solid ground!” ”Yeah, so? I landed my orbital booster, on a barge no less!” ”Hah! I’m going to land my orbital booster on a moving ship!!!” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, StrandedonEarth said: It is incredible, yes. All part of the oneupmanship between Musk and Bezos.... ”I landed my suborbital booster on solid ground!” ”Yeah, so? I landed my orbital booster, on a barge no less!” ”Hah! I’m going to land my orbital booster on a moving ship!!!” "Hold my glass..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotius Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Eh. Helicarrier? Let's take the next logical step: It's a landing ship - that is also a spaceship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 Thats the solution! Skip the trouble-prone space elevator and go straight to a space escalator! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Rocket Scientist Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 A "bigger boat" indeed. The only question is when will rocketlab announce the purchase of a oil tanker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaverickSawyer Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said: A "bigger boat" indeed. The only question is when will rocketlab announce the purchase of a oil tanker. Well, for something the size of an Electron first stage... They'd need, what, a tuna boat? All joking aside, Electron isn't designed for reuse, is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubinator Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 5 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said: I'm still skeptical that they're gonna land a booster that big on a moving(!!!) ship. The moving ship is actually more stable, due to *mumble mumble* aerodynamics *mumble mumble* inertia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Rocket Scientist Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 15 minutes ago, MaverickSawyer said: Well, for something the size of an Electron first stage... They'd need, what, a tuna boat? All joking aside, Electron isn't designed for reuse, is it? I strongly expect Rocketlab will announce a larger rocket soon. I thought I read something about parachute recovery on Electron, but I might be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said: A "bigger boat" indeed. The only question is when will rocketlab announce the purchase of a oil tanker. I know where they can get a good deal on one, low miles, minor cosmetic damage... Spoiler I wanna be one of the jetski mooks... 22 minutes ago, cubinator said: The moving ship is actually more stable, due to *mumble mumble* aerodynamics *mumble mumble* inertia. More stable, but harder to hit. Something the size of a building that weighs nearly nothing (relatively speaking) has got to be hard to translate sideways... 31 minutes ago, MaverickSawyer said: Well, for something the size of an Electron first stage... They'd need, what, a tuna boat? All joking aside, Electron isn't designed for reuse, is it? From everything I’ve ever heard, RocketLab has no plans for reusabilty, it’s kinda the opposite of their business model (mass production of ‘little dumb boosters’). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubinator Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 34 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said: From everything I’ve ever heard, RocketLab has no plans for reusabilty, it’s kinda the opposite of their business model (mass production of ‘little dumb boosters’). No, it's ok, just put a parachute on each and every one of those battery packs. It'll totally work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 12 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said: I know where they can get a good deal on one, low miles, minor cosmetic damage... Hide contents I wanna be one of the jetski mooks... More stable, but harder to hit. Something the size of a building that weighs nearly nothing (relatively speaking) has got to be hard to translate sideways... Harder for us probably not so much more for an computer, you need to add the movement of the ship to the vector, ship will go pretty slow on landing after all and you are coming in fast, here an suicide burn actually makes it easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 4 hours ago, magnemoe said: Harder for us probably not so much more for an computer, you need to add the movement of the ship to the vector, ship will go pretty slow on landing after all and you are coming in fast, here an suicide burn actually makes it easier. You’re forgetting the effect of wind on that great big bottom-heavy sail of a booster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 9 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said: You’re forgetting the effect of wind on that great big bottom-heavy sail of a booster. You will get wind anyway and the ship will just go fast enough to break the waves so the wind speed will often be faster than the ship speed. Its not like carrier operations there you want high speed on the ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibb31 Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I think that reusable launchers would probably benefit from being made wider and shorter than they way they are currently designed. I envision something like the old SASSTO or ROMBUS designs from Phil Bono, or the DC-X. There is a slight tradeoff in terms of empty mass and drag by using a wider cylinder or a conical shape, but I have the feeling that making the design more robust is worth it, and since you aren't aiming for SSTO, the first stage doesn't have to be highly optimized for weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satnet Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 17 hours ago, Nibb31 said: I think that reusable launchers would probably benefit from being made wider and shorter than they way they are currently designed. I envision something like the old SASSTO or ROMBUS designs from Phil Bono, or the DC-X. There is a slight tradeoff in terms of empty mass and drag by using a wider cylinder or a conical shape, but I have the feeling that making the design more robust is worth it, and since you aren't aiming for SSTO, the first stage doesn't have to be highly optimized for weight. In addition to the effects in flight there are the effects on transport. The reason a Falcon 9 is 3.7 meters wide is because that is the widest they could make it and transport it by road. Having said that, Blue Origin is going with wider rockets (7 meters). I don't know how they plan to transport it from the assembly plant to the launch site, though transport by sea seems probable. SpaceX is building the BFR (9 meters) at a port so that it can be transported by sea. Basically the trend seems to agree with you, but it creates some complications in terms of locating assembly facilities and transporting the assembled rocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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