N70

[1.5.0 <-> 1.8.1] Kerbalism v3.2

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On 4/15/2019 at 9:55 PM, N70 said:

NEEDED: Playtesters for 3.0

Just join the discord at: https://discord.gg/zWdCgx9

and ping @steamport#2763 (that's me!) to be given the playtester role.

I don't know how I missed this reading through. I've been away from ksp since 1.7 update. IL come on the discord when I can

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Guys, I love kerbalism and can't wait for the update. My question is: Will the Nehemia KEES experiments work in the upcoming science system? If not, is it something easy to edit in the mod (in Nehemia, that is).

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2 hours ago, lodiped said:

Guys, I love kerbalism and can't wait for the update. My question is: Will the Nehemia KEES experiments work in the upcoming science system? If not, is it something easy to edit in the mod (in Nehemia, that is).

I have no idea, I haven't looked at KEES yet. I have other more important stuff to patch on my plate. 

When I get some breathing room i'll look into patching it. As a general rule, experiments should work, depending on if we can replicate the functionality.

If not, 2 things will happen:

1: If too much stuff breaks that relies on them working as they are provided (such as contracts, all sorts of UIs, etc), they'll be left untouched. That means you'll still get science at a click of a button.  The trade-off would be breaking that functionality, which may or may not be a good idea. We hope that if this picks up, modders will provide their own support for this system, or at least give me the green light to adapt the experiments to what we can replicate.

2: If only minor functionality is lost, and we can compensate with something else (e.g. making them more fun/challenging in a different way), they'll get changed accordingly at my discretion.

Unpatched mods/experiments will retain their default behavior, till I get around to patching them.

Exceptions are antennas and pods/probe cores. Antennas are hit by a global nerf (I have to do it, stock data rates are way too overpowered in this new environment), and unpatched pods/probe cores will get the smallest hard drive available until patched, for the same reason as with antennas - unlimited drives break all sorts of balance (or attempt at it)

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I noticed the inflatable habitats I have from other mods (SSPEX and Tokamak) don't seem to contribute to the total available volume, making them somewhat useless. So I went to have a look at the config files and, to no surprise, they lack the appropriate module... to my understanding, that is.

A typical Habitat module from those fixed-size parts looks like this (excluding the other stuff like resources and shielding):

@MODULE[Habitat]
	{
		volume = 22.08
		surface = 23.56
	}

Inflatable habitats, however, look like this:

MODULE
	{
		name = Habitat
		inflate = InflatoFlatInflate
		state = disabled
		animBackwards = False
		toggle = true
	}

Are these different? Since volume/surface area is calculated by Kerbalism, could I just add this

@MODULE[Habitat]
	{}

to the inflatable habitat config files?

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17 hours ago, Tonas1997 said:

I noticed the inflatable habitats I have from other mods (SSPEX and Tokamak) don't seem to contribute to the total available volume, making them somewhat useless. So I went to have a look at the config files and, to no surprise, they lack the appropriate module... to my understanding, that is.

A typical Habitat module from those fixed-size parts looks like this (excluding the other stuff like resources and shielding):


@MODULE[Habitat]
	{
		volume = 22.08
		surface = 23.56
	}

Inflatable habitats, however, look like this:


MODULE
	{
		name = Habitat
		inflate = InflatoFlatInflate
		state = disabled
		animBackwards = False
		toggle = true
	}

Are these different? Since volume/surface area is calculated by Kerbalism, could I just add this


@MODULE[Habitat]
	{}

to the inflatable habitat config files?

Nope, Kerbalism doesn't calculate volume or surface, it uses whatever values you provide in your config. You should be able to just merge these two into one:

MODULE {
  name = Habitat
  inflate =
  ...all the others...
  volume =
  surface =
}

 

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2 hours ago, Sir Mortimer said:

Kerbalism doesn't calculate volume or surface

Incorrect. Kerbalism calculates volume/surface based on part model. For more intricate parts, the calculations are way off, that's when it needs custom volume/surface cdefinitions, thus the custom values. If there are no custom values, it applies whatever it thinks the part should have.. But it most definitely calculates habitat volume and surface based on part model.

20 hours ago, Tonas1997 said:

Are these different? Since volume/surface area is calculated by Kerbalism, could I just add this


@MODULE[Habitat]
	{}

to the inflatable habitat config files?

If there's a Habitat module on the part, Kerbalism automatically calculates volume/surface. as stated above, if the part has an intricate model, most of the time the values will be calculated wrong. This is where you'd have to do your own calculations (plain old math) and set those values. If you set a value for surface/volume, Kerbalism will use these instead of what it calculates. The other stuff is related to animations/default state of the habitat, if relevant. all of these are inside the same module, make sure there aren;t multiple Habitat modules on a single part, otherwise it gets weird.

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1 hour ago, SilverState said:

Incorrect. Kerbalism calculates volume/surface based on part model. For more intricate parts, the calculations are way off, that's when it needs custom volume/surface cdefinitions, thus the custom values. If there are no custom values, it applies whatever it thinks the part should have.. But it most definitely calculates habitat volume and surface based on part model.

If there's a Habitat module on the part, Kerbalism automatically calculates volume/surface. as stated above, if the part has an intricate model, most of the time the values will be calculated wrong. This is where you'd have to do your own calculations (plain old math) and set those values. If you set a value for surface/volume, Kerbalism will use these instead of what it calculates. The other stuff is related to animations/default state of the habitat, if relevant. all of these are inside the same module, make sure there aren;t multiple Habitat modules on a single part, otherwise it gets weird.

The thing is, inflatable habitats with a Habitat module of this "type"

MODULE
	{
		name = Habitat
		inflate = InflatoFlatInflate
		state = disabled
		animBackwards = False
		toggle = true
	}

have volume/surface area values of 0, meaning they're not being calculated by Kerbalism. Since other habitats (from Tokamak, Squad, SSPEX and so on) with explicitely defined volume/surface values DO contribute to the vessel's total, I thought it might have something to do with the way the Habitat module is being implemented by Tokamak.

In hindsight, I understood why the two pieces of code on my OP look different - as in one is a part definition and the other is a MM patch - but I still don't understand why Kerbalism is being prevented from assigning those values to a part which does feature a Habitat module. It should be done automatically, right?

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10 hours ago, Tonas1997 said:

In hindsight, I understood why the two pieces of code on my OP look different - as in one is a part definition and the other is a MM patch - but I still don't understand why Kerbalism is being prevented from assigning those values to a part which does feature a Habitat module. It should be done automatically, right?

Kerbalism does indeed calculate a value for surface and volume, but that value is based on the bounding box of the part, assuming that your part is cylindrical. It is a rough estimate at best, and wildly inaccurate for anything else, especially inflatable parts. Eyeball it and you'll have a more accurate value than that.

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Just now, tonimark said:

there is an incompatibility issue with ksp 1.7!

Would you like to mention what this issue actually is?

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@lordcirth the kerbalism doesn't load this means that life support is disabled along with many modules like (scrubber) this is a major incompatibility issue with ksp 1.7

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19 minutes ago, tonimark said:

@lordcirth the kerbalism doesn't load this means that life support is disabled along with many modules like (scrubber) this is a major incompatibility issue with ksp 1.7

Other people are running Kerbalism 2.1.2 on KSP 1.7 just fine, I believe. Is this the version you have installed? Do you have MM and CRP?

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2 minutes ago, tonimark said:

i have mm ver 1.4.2 and what is crp @lordcirth

Community Resource Pack. Kerbalism requires it.

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 I got mm 4.0.2 and CRP I think the latest versions but I don't actually know the correct versions

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@lordcirthI got mm 4.0.2 and CRP I think the latest versions but I don't actually know the correct versions

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Another shenanigan concerning inflatable habitats: for some reason, the enabled/disabled states are inverted (tested on the SSPX inflatables):
 

Spoiler

 

 QpHHfg2.jpg

38sZMIW.jpg

 

Notice both the Habitat: enabled/disabled flags on the part submenu and the volume/surface values. This might be a problem on the part's side, so what should I fix?

EDIT: is it just a matter of changing the state to "enabled"?

MODULE
  {
    name = Habitat
    inflate = Expand
    state = disabled
    animBackwards = True
    crewCapacity = #$../MODULE[ModuleDeployableHabitat]/DeployedCrewCapacity$
  }

(this is from Kerbalism's own SSPX compatibility patch file).

Edited by Tonas1997
See above

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21 hours ago, Tonas1997 said:

MODULE { name = Habitat inflate = Expand state = disabled animBackwards = True crewCapacity = #$../MODULE[ModuleDeployableHabitat]/DeployedCrewCapacity$ }

change 

animBackwards = True

to 

animBackwards = False

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Anyone else getting stutters again in flight mode with 2.1.2 in Kerbal 1.7??? They were gone prior but they've returned

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Get some errors with KSP 1.6.1:

Quote

[WRN 2019-05-05 11:53:44.349] Cannot find key mass in PART
[ERR 2019-05-05 11:53:44.349] Error - Cannot parse variable search when inserting new key mtbf_nerf = #$/mass$
[WRN 2019-05-05 11:53:44.349] Cannot find key mtbf_nerf in MODULE
[ERR 2019-05-05 11:53:44.349] Error - Cannot parse variable search when editing key mtbf = #$mtbf_nerf$
[WRN 2019-05-05 11:53:44.349] Cannot find key mass in PART
[ERR 2019-05-05 11:53:44.349] Error - Cannot parse variable search when inserting new key mtbf_nerf = #$/mass$
[WRN 2019-05-05 11:53:44.349] Cannot find key mtbf_nerf in MODULE
[ERR 2019-05-05 11:53:44.349] Error - Cannot parse variable search when editing key mtbf = #$mtbf_nerf$
[WRN 2019-05-05 11:53:44.349] Cannot find key mass in PART
[ERR 2019-05-05 11:53:44.349] Error - Cannot parse variable search when inserting new key mtbf_nerf = #$/mass$
[WRN 2019-05-05 11:53:44.349] Cannot find key mtbf_nerf in MODULE
[ERR 2019-05-05 11:53:44.349] Error - Cannot parse variable search when editing key mtbf = #$mtbf_nerf$
[WRN 2019-05-05 11:53:44.349] Cannot find key mass in PART
[ERR 2019-05-05 11:53:44.349] Error - Cannot parse variable search when inserting new key mtbf_nerf = #$/mass$
[WRN 2019-05-05 11:53:44.349] Cannot find key mtbf_nerf in MODULE
[ERR 2019-05-05 11:53:44.349] Error - Cannot parse variable search when editing key mtbf = #$mtbf_nerf$
[WRN 2019-05-05 11:53:44.349] Cannot find key mass in PART
[ERR 2019-05-05 11:53:44.349] Error - Cannot parse variable search when inserting new key mtbf_nerf = #$/mass$
[WRN 2019-05-05 11:53:44.349] Cannot find key mtbf_nerf in MODULE
[ERR 2019-05-05 11:53:44.349] Error - Cannot parse variable search when editing key mtbf = #$mtbf_nerf$
[LOG 2019-05-05 11:53:44.349] Applying update Kerbalism/System/Reliability/@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[Reliability],!MODULE[KerbalEVA]]:AFTER[Kerbalism] to

MRK/Parts/Command/mrk-DMr.cfg/PART

Does anyone know what this causes?

Edited by Cheesecake

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Those are MM errors. we need more info, as in which .cfg causes them.

Could also be a mod conflict, something that messes with the variable being searched for before that patch is being applied.

I get no errors on a stock install + Kerbalism, so it's probably something to do with how that mod's parts are configured.

Edited by SilverState

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I f**king love your mod! This should be in the game, no joking!

 

One question: can you make that work with the following mod: Deep Space Exploration Vessels

In this mod there is a massive rotating habitat (and research) ring (Nautilus Ring). Unfortunately you mod does not see the living space nor can I shield this ring.

 

That would be awesome!

 

Thx for your time and great work!

 

 

 

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On 5/4/2019 at 4:48 PM, SilverState said:

change 


animBackwards = True

to 


animBackwards = False

Sadly, that doesn't seem to have any effect.

Mind you I'm still playing on 1.3.1 and that bug might have been fixed since then, but the config seems to be the same on more recent versions.

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8 hours ago, WolfS said:

I f**king love your mod! This should be in the game, no joking!

 

One question: can you make that work with the following mod: Deep Space Exploration Vessels

In this mod there is a massive rotating habitat (and research) ring (Nautilus Ring). Unfortunately you mod does not see the living space nor can I shield this ring.

 

That would be awesome!

 

Thx for your time and great work!

 

 

 

You could try for the moment Nertea's (i think) Space Station Parts Redux :D it has rotating rings, giant beautifully made centrifuges. 

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