Cupcake's Dropship Dealership...

Cupcake... · January 24, 2014

Good lord! :0.0: You weren't planning on visiting the next galaxy over were you?

Cupcake...

team.leit · January 25, 2014

Good lord! You weren't planning on visiting the next galaxy over were you?
Cupcake...

Nahh, I think that ship only has about 5-6 KM/s of delta-v and a TWR of ~0.5? Thats just guessing though

Ghostshark27 · January 26, 2014

Quick questions, Cupcake... First, I'm big into mods, and am debating on running a hard mode career with a bunch of the difficulty mods. I've got Remotech and Life support right now, question is, have your designs been tested for FAR or deadly reentry? I'm not too keen on using them anyway, so it won't hurt my feelings if you say your designs would crumble to pieces upon reentry.

Also, you got any tips on setting up a flight stick in KSP? I'm probably going to work on that tonight, but if you've got any good little tricks, I'm all ears.

Cupcake... · January 26, 2014

Quick questions, Cupcake... First, I'm big into mods, and am debating on running a hard mode career with a bunch of the difficulty mods. I've got Remotech and Life support right now, question is, have your designs been tested for FAR or deadly reentry? I'm not too keen on using them anyway, so it won't hurt my feelings if you say your designs would crumble to pieces upon reentry.
Also, you got any tips on setting up a flight stick in KSP? I'm probably going to work on that tonight, but if you've got any good little tricks, I'm all ears.

Hi there,

All my designs are pretty tightly tuned for the stock aerodynamic model so I'm not sure how they'll get on with FAR, I'm guessing not too well. They are pretty robust though, the Equinox surviving a trip into Kerbins athmosphere at 19,000m/s, so I imagine deadly re-entry wouldn't be overly hard on them (providing you keep the intakes closed!). So yeah, sorry I couldn't be more help, this is my current joystick setup BTW.

Cupcake...

January 26, 2014

I really like the Scythe Mk3, very nice design gz!

Check out these planes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFvjOE15-2w&list=PL0yqvU9hjXK78YO5E0zivEv8nx3XZnAW3

Edited January 26, 2014 by RevanCorana

Cupcake... · January 26, 2014

I really like the Scythe Mk3, very nice design gz!
Check out these planes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFvjOE15-2w&list=PL0yqvU9hjXK78YO5E0zivEv8nx3XZnAW3

Thankyou! Now tell me, how did you get your Tabula Rasa II to be so agile?

Cupcake...

team.leit · January 26, 2014

Quick questions, Cupcake... First, I'm big into mods, and am debating on running a hard mode career with a bunch of the difficulty mods. I've got Remotech and Life support right now, question is, have your designs been tested for FAR or deadly reentry? I'm not too keen on using them anyway, so it won't hurt my feelings if you say your designs would crumble to pieces upon reentry.
Also, you got any tips on setting up a flight stick in KSP? I'm probably going to work on that tonight, but if you've got any good little tricks, I'm all ears.

A KSP version or two back, I tried the scythe and I think one or two others with FAR. They worked, with mechjeb holding the course for me so I am not sure how they will handle in the latest version of FAR or with manual control

Sgt. Cookie · January 26, 2014

Seeing this thread convinced me to try my hand at creating my own dropship:

I don't have a name for it yet, sadly. I'm thinking, Ant, because:

It's a pretty light little craft, coming in at about 18 tonnes, but don't underestimate her, she's powerful enough to lift a half Rockomax (Which is itself 18 tonnes!) and remain agile:

It's only good for atmospheric usage, but that's not a major issue right now.

Craft File

I'm not a very good VTOL pilot, but here's my flight advice for this thing:

Preflight, make sure that the SAS is switched on. If it isn't all sorts of out-of-control-spinning will occur.

During flight keep an eye on the throttle, unloaded it only needs 1/3 throttle and even when loaded, full throttle is only needed to get it off the ground, after that you can fly at just over 2/3's and still be good to go.

When coming in for a landing, she needs height, she can't accelerate quickly so make sure you've got enough height to slow down.

Cupcake... · January 26, 2014

Seeing this thread convinced me to try my hand at creating my own dropship:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FowNX4JS3cw/UuUV2FY4xaI/AAAAAAAAAPo/b76rP8gMnt4/w729-h547-no/screenshot13.png
I don't have a name for it yet, sadly. I'm thinking, Ant, because:
It's a pretty light little craft, coming in at about 18 tonnes, but don't underestimate her, she's powerful enough to lift a half Rockomax (Which is itself 18 tonnes!) and remain agile:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-e55JEpa9o54/UuUVz4uf-6I/AAAAAAAAAPg/bTNHkEfxhMQ/w729-h547-no/screenshot0.png
It's only good for atmospheric usage, but that's not a major issue right now.
Craft File
I'm not a very good VTOL pilot, but here's my flight advice for this thing:
Preflight, make sure that the SAS is switched on. If it isn't all sorts of out-of-control-spinning will occur.
During flight keep an eye on the throttle, unloaded it only needs 1/3 throttle and even when loaded, full throttle is only needed to get it off the ground, after that you can fly at just over 2/3's and still be good to go.
When coming in for a landing, she needs height, she can't accelerate quickly so make sure you've got enough height to slow down.

That's looking cool, it'll be good to see a few more angles of it. I think a couple of things that'll improve it will be adding rockets to work together with the jets to cancel out the throttle lag (and use up the oxidiser). It could also do with horizontal axis control which will make it a lot easier to fly/land, it doesn't need to be anything too fancy just a docking port on the front will do. You could also think about lightening it a bit by replacing two of the T800 tanks with jet fuel, that way I'm confident you'll be able to lift a not just a half Rockomax but a big red!

Cupcake...

Sgt. Cookie · January 26, 2014

Yeah, I was in a slight rush and thought I'd taken a couple more than I had. Here ya go:

Album (Switched to Imgur, can't figure out the damn tags.)

The tanks are actually empty of Oxidiser, they've been tweaked out; all that's in the tanks is Liquid Fuel. That said, I'll replace the upper tanks with jet fuel tanks and see what happens.

[some testing later]

Now, looking over the tanks, I've decided that I'm not going to bother with anything other than the MK1, because the other tanks would force a redesign.

That said, here are my results comparing one Oxidiser-less T800 against two stacked MK1's (They're just about equivalent in length):

T800: 360 units at 2.3 tonnes. Dry mass: 0.5 tonnes

2x MK 1 Fuselage stacked (Same length as a T800), has only 300 units at 2.2 tonnes. Dry mass: 0.7 tonnes

So, as it turns out, an oxidiser-less T800 is actually better than two MK1's for atmospheric purposes.

Now, since I couldn't use lighter tanks, I decided to do the next best thing. I added extra engines:

This bumped the TWR from 1.5 to nearly 6. Now that was enough for an orange tank:

So, with all that concluded, may I present to you, the Ant VTOL Dropship:

Album

Craft file

I hope you enjoy.

Edited January 26, 2014 by Sgt. Cookie

Cupcake... · January 26, 2014

Yeah, I was in a slight rush and thought I'd taken a couple more than I had. Here ya go:
Album (Switched to Imgur, can't figure out the damn tags.)
The tanks are actually empty of Oxidiser, they've been tweaked out; all that's in the tanks is Liquid Fuel. That said, I'll replace the upper tanks with jet fuel tanks and see what happens.
[some testing later]
Now, looking over the tanks, I've decided that I'm not going to bother with anything other than the MK1, because the other tanks would force a redesign.
That said, here are my results comparing one Oxidiser-less T800 against two stacked MK1's (They're just about equivalent in length):
T800: 360 units at 2.3 tonnes. Dry mass: 0.5 tonnes
2x MK 1 Fuselage stacked (Same length as a T800), has only 300 units at 2.2 tonnes. Dry mass: 0.7 tonnes
So, as it turns out, an oxidiser-less T800 is actually better than two MK1's for atmospheric purposes.
Now, since I couldn't use lighter tanks, I decided to do the next best thing. I added extra engines:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8icj2QnEYRA/UuWUN737Y_I/AAAAAAAAAQU/m36QOrjwU5I/w729-h547-no/screenshot3.png
This bumped the TWR from 1.5 to nearly 6. Now that was enough for an orange tank:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HA_F3taS7ZQ/UuWUOOvZtEI/AAAAAAAAAQY/1T0tW2aax7s/w729-h547-no/screenshot4.png
So, with all that concluded, may I present to you, the Ant VTOL Dropship:
Album
Craft file
I hope you enjoy.

Whoops! I was working under the assumption you were using basic jet engines but I now see you've been using turbo jets which are pretty weedy at low altitude.

I think if you replace all your engines with basic jets you'll be able to lift a big red with just the 4 of them. Sorry I didn't pick that up earlier...

Cupcake...

Sgt. Cookie · January 26, 2014

Really?

[Goes testing]

Nope. Four just causes a big ole topple.

[uses all six as BJEs]

Nope. Still just topples. Turns out the current set up is the best.

Cupcake... · January 27, 2014

Really?
[Goes testing]
Nope. Four just causes a big ole topple.
[uses all six as BJEs]
Nope. Still just topples. Turns out the current set up is the best.

Hmmm, okay, that seems odd. :confused:

Cupcake...

CakeNinjaProductions · January 27, 2014

I do realize I'm a broken record but...

Tylo next?

Cupcake... · January 27, 2014

I do realize I'm a broken record but...

Tylo next?

I'll have a think about it, it won't be with a homemade rocket anyway!

It would be a good challenge though as I've never landed there before. :blush:

Normally I stay away from places like Eve and Tylo as I prefer to make general purpose vessels rather then mission specific ones.

Cupcake...

team.leit · January 27, 2014

I'll have a think about it, it won't be with a homemade rocket anyway! It would be a good challenge though as I've never landed there before. Normally I stay away from places like Eve and Tylo as I prefer to make general purpose vessels rather then mission specific ones.
Cupcake...

If it can land and take off from Eve, I am pretty sure I can find a use for it else where. Sometime a ship designed for one mission, can be used for a lot of other stuff. Just look at the RL F-15 for example, it was designed for air to air combat and now it is being used for a lot of stuff, not just air to air combat anymore.

Anyway there's my two cents.

team.leit

Cupcake... · January 28, 2014

If it can land and take off from Eve, I am pretty sure I can find a use for it else where. Sometime a ship designed for one mission, can be used for a lot of other stuff. Just look at the RL F-15 for example, it was designed for air to air combat and now it is being used for a lot of stuff, not just air to air combat anymore.
Anyway there's my two cents.
team.leit

I don't know, I still think an Eve lander is far too specialised a craft to be able to use anywhere else, I mean taking one to the Mun or Duna would just be silly.

Cupcake...

team.leit · January 28, 2014

Who knows, it might just be used as it's own interplanetary stage if not used to land or take off on Eve

Cupcake... · January 28, 2014

I guess so, although I imagine the engine setup would be too "brute force" to make an efficient transfer stage. Generaly speaking I do agree with you about multi mission craft though, and I suppose a measure of a designs success is how many places you can use it.

Cupcake...

team.leit · January 28, 2014

If it has the fuel to lift off of Eve, I think fuel efficiency would not matter when you are doing a transfer

Cupcake... · January 28, 2014

If it has the fuel to lift off of Eve, I think fuel efficiency would not matter when you are doing a transfer

That's true. Anyway, I think I'm gonna have to start doing a bit of homework about Tylo. :wink:

Cupcake...

MockKnizzle · January 28, 2014

The TWR and asparagus requirements for an Eve ascent vehicle make it unsuitable for deep-space travel. You're carrying around so much extra mass in engines and they're most likely Aerospikes to boot, which limits your Isp. While an EAV does have the dV to go pretty much anywhere, it's nowhere near an elegant interplanetary spacecraft.

labtopia · January 30, 2014

hey cupcake, i just figured out how to use MJ translatraon with your shops and made no sense, but now genius. wish there was a way this forum searches were useful, but for me

top control port, no smartass, keep vert, kill h/s.

on kerbin, use rockets too, (i think you actually do mention this)

there's no where on this forum that mentions how to use MJ and translaron and was using your new equinox, super fun ship!

thanks

dave

Edited January 30, 2014 by labtopia

Cupcake... · January 30, 2014

hey cupcake, i just figured out how to use MJ translatraon with your shops and made no sense, but now genius. wish there was a way this forum searches were useful, but for me
top control port, no smartass, keep vert, kill h/s.
on kerbin, use rockets too, (i think you actually do mention this)
there's no where on this forum that mentions how to use MJ and translaron and was using your new equinox, super fun ship!
thanks
dave

Thanks Dave,

I haven't actually used that part of Mechjeb yet, but will give it a try with the settings you suggested. Glad you're enjoying the Equinox!

Cupcake...

CakeNinjaProductions · January 31, 2014

A popular YouTuber like you doesn't need to do homework. That's what fans are for.

Here's the important stuff:

Tylo takes 6500 delta-V to land and take off (if you want to be comfortable, fuel-wise), so I won't be dissapointed if you need two stages. You can get away with close to 6000 if you start at a 50 km orbit (or lower if you have a good TWR, but I didn't) and take off to a 10-15 km orbit. Suicide burns may be necessary, but my craft was so heavy the entire descent was a suicide burn.

Tylo's surface gravity is 7.85 m/s² (or 0.8 kerbal g). It is the same size as Kerbin. Kerbal jet-packs obviously do not work.

Here's a good compilation of information: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Tylo

Also, some more important sources: http://www.kerbalmaps.com/

The latter source will give you the flattest regions, highest elevation, and any easter eggs, if you're feeling insane.

Best of luck!

-Cake

Cupcake's Dropship Dealership...

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