Whatever happened to recources?

[Amphiprion]

As I swaid before, as long as we can live without them too, I'll be glad to have the resources.

P.S. don't double post

Different game Modes perhaps, one more realistic with resource procurement, the other without.

PS: First time I've double posted since I joined the forum.. hang me...

[stupid_chris]

Why make it so complicated. Making resources available without being necessary is easy enough, I don't see why we would need different game modes. And relax, I was just saying for the double post, don't get mad.

[Tom K.]

Why make it so complicated. Making resources available without being necessary is easy enough, I don't see why we would need different game modes. And relax, I was just saying for the double post, don't get mad.

I think IMO that resources will be as game-changing as 0.18's docking, now we can assemble big interplanetary crafts in orbit which completly changed the play-style of many people including me.

[stupid_chris]

I think IMO that resources will be as game-changing as 0.18's docking, now we can assemble big interplanetary crafts in orbit which completly changed the play-style of many people including me.

True but if you decide to not use docking, you can still do missions just fine with enough of planning, and that's what I'm trying to say.

[Rocketeer Hopeful]

This disappoints me. I honestly wanted it to get more complicated (adding ore, metal, fabrication parts) so things like Extraplanetary launchpads would go stock. Damnit. So much for the SSI Kerbol empire.

I will definitely be waiting for an extensive mod pack for added resources.

[Tom K.]

True but if you decide to not use docking, you can still do missions just fine with enough of planning, and that's what I'm trying to say.

Off cours I can still do these missions, but I don't and I've never done, cause I didn't saw the point in flying over to Jool's moons without any serious reason.

I can imagine that veteran players don't really see getting into orbit around Kerbin as a BIG challenge, it doesn't give that real adrenaline-kick like the first timed, but when we got probes and scientific instruments I felt accomplished getting that probe just around LKO, because I imagined that it served a real scientifique purpose...

And that is the reason why I haven't even bothered doing any Duna-rover stuff, I want to place some sort of ground-scanner on the thing and make progress!

[Rocketeer Hopeful]

As I swaid before, as long as we can live without them too, I'll be glad to have the resources.

P.S. don't double post

You filthy casual! Just kidding. But I feel like if you aren't going to be doing mining, you would probably have quite the amount of difficulty getting far out or maintaining a base.

[Rocketeer Hopeful]

So it seems that this thread has boiled down to what people think about how the future career mode and resources should work together. My idea is this: Whenever you start sending Kerbals farther out than Minmus or start making a base on either of the moons and farther out, then resource gathering will become a major concern. By mining or drilling once you get to a new planet, you can have resources such as fuel and water (if they add such life support systems) and then return to said planet. If a base is secured on either of the moons orbiting Kerbin, then mining should also be a smaller priority considering keeping a bunch of Kerbals supplied should require some work.

I hope that in the future we can have something that tells us the current status of a mission, such as a base on the Mun, and give us information on resource supplies. If it was low, you could jump to that mission and go out in a small scout vehicle and bring back the needed supplies. Maybe it could be a mod. I don't know. My last opinion on the matter would be that Kerbals should only need to run on water so as to make such resource gathering and life support systems simpler.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Rocketeer Hopeful

[Skyrunner27]

Even if you do gain a part from resource mining it should not force you use that part. Such as you are not forced to use the LV-N now.

[allmhuran]

Whether it's resources, experiments, or something else, what the game desperately needs right now is a set of goals.

When I first saw the demo for this game I bought it within five minutes. I raved about it at work, "best game ever", etc etc. I've built everything, from high performance aircraft (back before intakes were a thing), to absolute gargantuans and grand tour ships. I have spent hours and hours making and editing

despite being utterly unknown and getting virtually no views. I spent a week building as near a perfect replica of a tie fighter as I think is possible

But I have not played the game in several months, because I have nothing left to accomplish. I need goals. I need a reason to use a SSTO spaceplane that can lift two orange tanks into orbit (yes I have one). I need a reason to build more gargantuans. I need something to do other than simply go to other celestial bodies, because I've already been to all of them several times over.

[stupid_chris]

Even if you do gain a part from resource mining it should not force you use that part. Such as you are not forced to use the LV-N now.

I'm trying to say the opposite, I don't want to be forced to use resource mining to gain access to the LV-N.

[skyace65]

I'm trying to say the opposite, I don't want to be forced to use resource mining to gain access to the LV-N.

completely agree. the only part that I would ever want to be restricted to by resources is a hyper drive or whatever device could take ships between solar systems. the way I see it, resources should be used for R and D, but the R and D shouldn't be for more parts it should be for improving efficiency, speed, strength, that kind of stuff.

[KerbMav]

Ultimately mining has to have some kind of advantage, and considering the expected work it has to be not to unsignificant of an advantage - else: why bother programming and implementing it?

[chaos_forge]

I think resources will change the game in much the same way docking did in 0.18: sure you can still play the game in exactly the same way and pretend docking never happened, but why would you ever want to?

Resources will let you increase your effective delta-v by only having to pack enough fuel for a one-way trip, but I don't think they should affect how parts are unlocked/built.

[sojourner]

completely agree. the only part that I would ever want to be restricted to by resources is a hyper drive or whatever device could take ships between solar systems. the way I see it, resources should be used for R and D, but the R and D shouldn't be for more parts it should be for improving efficiency, speed, strength, that kind of stuff.

That would be a career mode/tech tree thing. Not for sandbox play.

[skyace65]

That would be a career mode/tech tree thing. Not for sandbox play.

and restricting things based on resources, is also a career mode/tech tree thing.

[stupid_chris]

I think resources will change the game in much the same way docking did in 0.18: sure you can still play the game in exactly the same way and pretend docking never happened, but why would you ever want to?

Resources will let you increase your effective delta-v by only having to pack enough fuel for a one-way trip, but I don't think they should affect how parts are unlocked/built.

For the same reason I don't use Kethane much. Too much management. Really, sustaining a Kethane mining operation and getting all of that stuff together and getting the base in place, the refinery in place, doing the refueling flights and all this stuff is extremely boring (to me.) I don't want to be stuck forced to do it if I don't feel like it.

Ultimately mining has to have some kind of advantage, and considering the expected work it has to be not to unsignificant of an advantage - else: why bother programming and implementing it?

The only advantage it should have is allowing you to process fuel and refuel your interplanetary crafts. Scientific research should allow you to unlock thing and boost your career.

[Tom K.]

I'm trying to say the opposite, I don't want to be forced to use resource mining to gain access to the LV-N.

I don't see how mining resources would somehow unlock acces to the LV-N, it's a part that you have from start, though finding Blutonium should be harder then regular fuel...

[Kimberly]

For the same reason I don't use Kethane much. Too much management. Really, sustaining a Kethane mining operation and getting all of that stuff together and getting the base in place, the refinery in place, doing the refueling flights and all this stuff is extremely boring (to me.) I don't want to be stuck forced to do it if I don't feel like it.

You might want to look at an add-on in the add-on development forum. Somebody's working on a part that you can put on a station, and once you activate it, you need to fill it up with a large quantity of fuel. After you've "proved" you can make fuel deliveries, you can use the part to order new fuel at any time. The fuel delivery has a time delay depending on the distance from Kerbin, and you can fill up as much as the station has capacity. The mod's still rough around the edges, but it essentially means you can use kethane without the boring routine missions: set up a mining operation and use it to fill up the station, and the station will now provide fuel continuously, abstracting away routine refueling missions.

[Son of Hicks]

The ultimate truth of the matter is that transporting a liter of fuel extracted from Duna to LKO uses less fuel than lifting a liter of fuel from KSC to LKO, the trade off is that it is a hassle and can only be done every launch window. Resource extraction will open up new and exciting gameplay, giving us reasons other than "LOL Roleplays!" To have a manned presence anywhere in the game. I look forward to the build where I can extract Blutonium, Fuel, and steel to manufacture and launch nuclear rockets from Leythe. Without sending everything there first.

KSC and Kerbin should always have the advantage of buying parts and snapping them together in the VAB, becquse a full fledged economy and aerospace manufacturing industry already exists. As long as money is present (and it will always be needed to pay and train astronauts) KSC will always be integral and relevant after resources are introduced.

[KerbMav]

After you've "proved" you can make fuel deliveries, you can use the part to order new fuel at any time.

Cute!

I was content with the power-to-fuel mod - if there is water on the planet (Kerbin) I reason, that it might be safer to haul it up into space, because it is less volatile than the actual fuel - and given the stronger, not atmosphere-filtered UV-radiation from the sun, there is more free power to split the water in to H and O.

But delegating supply runs to privateers (so to speak if we assume KSC is run at least somehow by the Kerbal government) sounds quite nice.

Back to topic: Seems like we need three game modes:

- sandbox, like it is now

- career, added limited funds and research

- career + resources, some tech might only be available after mining turned up new elements for construction or propulsion and they have to be continuosly resupplied by the players mining facilities

[lazarus1024]

My hope is also that whenever resources are implemented they can be done in a manner that is automated. I don't mind having to ferry refined fuel somewhere to use it, but I don't want to have to sit there and manage it being extracted, moved to a refiner and then refine it. Even utilizing time warp it isn't something I want to do (oh, maybe once or twice for the fun of it). Now if I can drop/place/drive a base/miner on top of a "deposite" and select "extract" and the thing can have both an extractor bit and a refiner bit and it'll then go to town, including working while my focus is on a different ship, we are good. Later I can pickup the refined fuel (taking however long is needed based on deposite richness, power available, basic maximum rate of the parts).

I do not want to have to extract resources for life support. Not in any real way. If this can be automated on a base, great. Sit it on an ice deposite and it'll feed itself. Or maybe occasionally have to deliver a supply of okygen or something VERY RARELY to my base or space station, fine. Constant maintenance is not a thing I am in to. I don't want to have half a dozen space stations and a few bases going on and then I launch a mission to Jool, and oh hey look, I am half way there in time warp and lets not forget to stop and cycle through all of my sations and bases for 20 minutes and deliver life support gases to them. Don't forget to do that in another 3 months of time warp! Or you'll be sorry!

At a minimum you'd need to be able to setup in game reminders to alert you when you need to do something with a base/station/ship.

At a better minimum, ship/base/station resources just plain don't get used when you aren't focused on them AND resource extraction and refining can be automated when you aren't focused on them. I don't mind a 3 month life support supply on a station if it isn't getting used up when I am not focused on it. For the times I am, keep it in mind and if I've been using the station a lot, maybe I need to deliver some more life support gases. Maybe from the Minimum base below where I have an ice miner making me life support gases and rocket fuel.

I do want resource extraction at some point. If nothing else, it kind of makes bases and to a lesser degree stations more useful and serve a real purpose (or a better purpose). It can also make some missions easier, as mentioned, you just have to build for a 1 way mission (within reason) and resupply at your eventual destination. It could also add the ability to make parts/ships at your destination depending on how it was implemented.

I kind of like the changed focus to Career mode. In part because I think it is needed for career mode, but also because I'd like it in sandbox mode is being able to "do more". By "do" I mean lets have the science instruments work a bit more realsitically, lets add more of them and lets also give more things to do. Flag planting seems minor, but I still feel like it was a semi-big thing. It would be nice to be able to do things like pickup a rock sample (by EVA or by a probe arm) and analyze it (start with each heavenly body having just one type of "rock", but then you could either go semi-random, or do a rock coverage map for each planet, or base it on the coloration of the map texture to make some correlation or something). Also doing things like being able to map a planet would be cool. A couple of options on that are a straight visual map, an elevation/radar map, an IR/UV map, a "resource" map (once resources are added), that sort of thing. Atmospheric gas samplers would be cool. Magnometers, gieger counters, etc.

I have no doubt a lot of that would be a lot of work, but I also feel like it is very needed for career mode and it would also add a great way to spice up sandbox mode.

[draeath]

I'd like to set up "processes" to do this. In that I have to get everything in place, find the resources, position them etc - but I don't want to have to do every step myself.

Perfect example: the kethane mod. I have to babysit a satellite while it scans - I can't just put it in orbit and start the scanner, then go do something else - effectively I'm stuck watching it go round-n-round until I'm satisfied with the scan.

What I would prefer is to put it in orbit, and then be able to go attend another mission while the scanning job is still proceeding. As it stands now, crew or unmanned "pods" are just baggage and don't do anything, because you are doing everything yourself. They are just along for the ride.

[-RanZ-]

resources were something I was really looking forward to.