Career Mode: Mun or Minmus?

[Poryy]

I have started a new career save and I am wondering whether I should land on the Mun or Minmus first. I have done flybys of both. I have Fuel Systems and the Solar panel node, and all nodes before that.

So should I land on the Mun or Minmus? I have a pretty good landed design with 1100 dV.

[Bobnova]

I'd go for Minmus, 1100 won't get you to the surface of Mun and back unless you land at a very high spot and do a very very good job of that and of liftoff. Even then you won't be headed back to kerbin.

It'll do it for Minmus just fine though, and most likely make it back to Kerbin for bonus points.

Now that Minmus has biomes you can get a ton of science there.

[Superfluous J]

If you want more science for cheaper, go to Minmus. You can land on Minmus for what it takes to orbit Mun.

Just for perspective:

From the surface of Mun, 1100 dV will get you back to Kerbin with a decent margin for error.

From Low Mun Orbit, 1100 dV will get you down to Mun and back to orbit, but only just and there's no margin for error.

From Low Mun Orbit, 1100 dV could take you all the way to Minmus, land there, launch again, and then back to Kerbin with a decent margin for error.

So yeah, Minmus is easier than Mun

[regex]

Minmus is far easier but you'll eventually want to spam the Mun too.

[morph113]

I personally always go to and land on the mun first for roleplaying purposes, but in terms of difficulty, Minimus is of course way easier as already mentioned, because you need less delta-v and thus fuel. Only the landing is a bit more difficult than on the mun, due to the low gravity and mostly uneven surface. Getting back to Kerbin is especially easy, as you need only 200 delta V or so (can't remember exactly) to leave the SOI of Minimus and because you are pretty far away from Kerbin then, you need only a few delta v to get back. If you use deadly reentry you may need a bit more to get a better angle, but still piece of cake.

[Kasuha]

Mun:

- no inclination change needed

- closer to Kerbin, i.e. less in-game time needed to go there and return

Minmus:

- lower gravity = easier landing/liftoff and lower general dv requirements

- more science points

[KSK]

Unless you have any self-imposed restrictions or roleplaying reasons to pick one over the other, I'd say Minmus. Easier landing and easier science. If you pick the right landing spots, you can visit two to three biomes in a single landing (with patience) just by going on EVA, picking up a sample and an EVA report from each one. If you have enough fuel for multiple landings you could probably sample all the biomes in a single mission.

[morph113]

If I remember correctly you can only get 1 surface sample into the pod, but of course as much eva's as you want. I am not entirely sure, but I think I remember me trying to get several (different) surface samples of Kerbin into my pod and it sayd that there is already a surface sample. But maybe I just picked up the same sample twice by mistake.

[magnemoe]

I always do mun flyby first, then minmus landing, then an second minmus mission who lands multiple places. Next is an mum mission with an rover who samples 5 biomes

[Dave Kerbin]

If you want more science for cheaper, go to Minmus. You can land on Minmus for what it takes to orbit Mun.

Just for perspective:

From the surface of Mun, 1100 dV will get you back to Kerbin with a decent margin for error.

From Low Mun Orbit, 1100 dV will get you down to Mun and back to orbit, but only just and there's no margin for error.

From Low Mun Orbit, 1100 dV could take you all the way to Minmus, land there, launch again, and then back to Kerbin with a decent margin for error.

So yeah, Minmus is easier than Mun

I'd put an asterix beside this. When you say 'no margin for error' what you mean is that if you have to ask a question about landing on the Mun then there is no possible way you will do it and return to orbit on 1100 dV. Doing it with 1100 dV is crossing over from the realm of expert piloting into the realm of crazy party trick. You are basically doing this but 10 times harder because you don't have an atmosphere to hit terminal velocity in.

[Padishar]

Only the landing is a bit more difficult than on the mun, due to the low gravity and mostly uneven surface.

Errr, surely you mean the low gravity makes the landing easier (assuming you have designed your lander with a sensible amount of thrust so that a single notch of throttle doesn't shoot you back up into orbit). Also, Minmus has large, totally flat areas that are very easy to hit by setting up a retrograde node that shows you coming down to slightly overshoot a flat. Then, when you are definitely above the flat, kill all your horizontal speed and just let it drop, braking as necessary. It isn't the most efficient way but the difference won't be very much and you'll still need far less deltaV than you would for Mun. To do multiple biome hits from a single landing you should try to land as close to the edge of a flat as possible so you can climb into the surrounding hills. After a few landings you should get the hang of it and try landing on less flat areas. Minmus is better for this as the lower gravity is more likely to allow you to right your ship just using the reaction wheels and/or rcs if you happen to fall over on the landing.

[Kasuha]

If I remember correctly you can only get 1 surface sample into the pod, but of course as much eva's as you want. I am not entirely sure, but I think I remember me trying to get several (different) surface samples of Kerbin into my pod and it sayd that there is already a surface sample. But maybe I just picked up the same sample twice by mistake.

I am pretty sure you can have as many different surface samples as you want in a single pod. So I guess it was the latter case.

[Kerba Fett]

If I remember correctly you can only get 1 surface sample into the pod, but of course as much eva's as you want. I am not entirely sure, but I think I remember me trying to get several (different) surface samples of Kerbin into my pod and it sayd that there is already a surface sample. But maybe I just picked up the same sample twice by mistake.

You can carry 1 surface sample from each biome, but there's no restriction on how many surface samples in total a pod can carry. I think you can only carry 1 surface sample on EVA so if you use the jetpack to visit other biomes, you'll need to go back to the lander and drop it off after each one.

[blizzy78]

Mun:

- no inclination change needed

The inclination change necessary to get to Minmus is essentially a non-issue.

- Put your apoapsis right on top of the ascending or descending node on Minmus's orbit (while keeping periapsis down at Kerbin.)

- Change your inclination to match Minmus. This can be done with about 30-40 m/s.

- Timewarp until you get an encounter with Minmus.

- Adjust orbit as necessary.

I know it may not be the most fuel-efficient way to get to Minmus, but it's ridiculously easy.

Also, post #1337.

[Kasuha]

The inclination change necessary to get to Minmus is essentially a non-issue.

None of it is an issue if you know how to deal with it. But if you need to ask which of the two is better, potentially any of it may actually be an issue for you.

[Poryy]

I have already gone to Minmus on a flyby.

The process I used was:

Established a perfectly circular orbit

Change inclination to 6 degrees

Did a normal transfer with a free return trajectory (Periapsis about 170000)

[cantab]

I'm also considering a Minmus flyby, and am wondering if this is the lowest delta-v approach:

Reach LKO. Set Minmus as target.

Burn prograde at ascending/descending node to put apoapsis out as far as Minmus's orbit. The other node should then be at apoapsis.

Make the inclination change at apoapsis, so it's cheap.

Wait for encounter, making another prograde burn around periapsis if need be.

My only doubt is that a big inclination change (which I may need because the rocket I plan to use is barely controllable on the ascent to LKO) will throw the periapsis out and may make the adjustments to get the encounter more expensive.

Edited March 5, 2014 by cantab

[Dave Kerbin]

I'm also considering a Minmus flyby, and am wondering if this is the lowest delta-v approach:

Reach LKO. Set Minmus as target.

Burn prograde at ascending/descending node to put apoapsis out as far as Minmus's orbit. The other node should then be at apoapsis.

Make the inclination change at apoapsis, so it's cheap.

Wait for encounter, making another prograde burn around periapsis if need be.

My only doubt is that a big inclination change (which I may need because the rocket I plan to use is barely controllable on the ascent to LKO) will throw the periapsis out and may make the adjustments to get the encounter more expensive.

Click on Minmus and select it as your target. From there you can use a maneuver node (make it prograde about 900 m/s) figure out where in your LKO you need to burn in order to intersect Minmus's orbit at the same time Minmus itself is reaching that point. You'll know you are close to an encounter when you see some arrows showing the positive of the ship and body at closest approach, followed by getting an actual encounter.

[cantab]

So just one burn from LKO to set up the encounter and never mind matching inclinations?

[Dave Kerbin]

So just one burn from LKO to set up the encounter and never mind matching inclinations?

It depends on what orbit (if any) of Minmus you want and how bad your inclination is after launching into LKO.

If you want to enter an equatorial orbit around Minmus (passing over the same areas on every orbit) then you'll need to do an inclination change. You can do this in LKO and unless you really messed up the launch it doesn't cost that much - correct your inclination first then plan the prograde burn so you'll intercept Minmus on the way out/in.

If you just want to get into any Minmus orbit or just do a flyby then as long as your launch was fairly east-west (you can check your kerbal inclination by targeting the Mun since it has a 0 degree inclination itself) to within a degree or two you should be fine to get an intercept. For reference my inclination was 1.2 degrees off an equatorial kerbin orbit in the screenshots.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Dave Kerbin

[EuSouONumero345]

Mun is easier to return/go to, cause it's inclination is almost 0 in relation to Kerbin's orbital plane.

Minmus is easier to land, cause it got lower gravity, but the plane inclination is pretty high, so you'll have to change inclinations.

So, you'll probably learn more stuff going to Minmus first, also most Mun rockets can reach Minmus.

[Javster]

I'd put an asterix beside this. When you say 'no margin for error' what you mean is that if you have to ask a question about landing on the Mun then there is no possible way you will do it and return to orbit on 1100 dV. Doing it with 1100 dV is crossing over from the realm of expert piloting into the realm of crazy party trick. You are basically doing this but 10 times harder because you don't have an atmosphere to hit terminal velocity in.

It's an asterisk. Asterix is a comic character.

Back on topic, I'd recommend using more efficient engines everywhere you can, and maybe clustering them, to increase dV

[AlexisBV]

From Low Mun Orbit, 1100 dV will get you down to Mun and back to orbit, but only just and there's no margin for error.

I'd put an asterix beside this.

Sorry couldn't resist. I wonder how much delta-V is imparted on the average roman. Probably depends on the dose of magic potion. Hmm, interesting idea for a mod...

[Jouni]

Sorry couldn't resist. I wonder how much delta-V is imparted on the average roman. Probably depends on the dose of magic potion. Hmm, interesting idea for a mod...

I have a vague recollection that Obelix was able to throw a javelin into orbit.

[Pecan]

It must be a hell of a lot since that Roman has started a really tight gravity turn.