RATO (Rocket Assisted Take-Off): give your spaceplanes the boost they deserve.

[Cirocco]

Hi guys,

So I was messing around with space planes today and as is often the case with my space planes is that the heavy duty ones can become rather ... well... heavy... and only take off at the very end of the runway as the ground drops away. I know for a fact that many other players experience the same thing. Personally I don't mind this much as I know that once I hit the end of the runway and can tilt the nose up, the plane will take off no problem. But there's something about that that just doesn't feel right, you know?

So I figured "hey, RATO is a thing. Why not put some decouplers under the wings, strap on two small SRB's and gain some additional speed that way?"

Turns out, it works. It really does. The plane suddenly took off at half the runway and the SRB's can even boost you a few hundred if not thousand or more meters up. If you put a parachute on the SRB's they even make it down to the ground unscathed. My goal with space planes was always to have a fully re-usable spaceship that would be cheap to lift fuel, kerbals or payload into space once the economy system is realeased. Everything that goes up comes down intact (minus the fuel) right? Well that actually still holds true if you use RATO and strap a parachute on each SRB. And with that extra boost for take-off, you can suddenly build bigger and heavier planes that normally would never get off the runway.

And really, it just looks. so. freaking. cool.

So yeah. Space planes with solid rocket boosters.

Come to think of it, why stop there? I could try my hand at multi-stage spaceplanes that have all parts come down intact. That seems really hard to do and really cool should you pull it off...

TO THE SPACE PLANE HANGAR!

P.S.: I use vanilla KSP, so I have no idea what FAR does to RATO if anything.

[r4pt0r]

yeah thats really cool stuff in real life too! at 1:10 is the shortest takeoff ive ever seen a plane that size do. and at 1.30 you can see how not to do a rocket assisted landing with a c-130 lol

[Pecan]

...And really, it just looks. so. freaking. cool...

And? You tease! Where are the pics, we want to see?! You can't leave it like that, surely :-(

[astropapi1]

yeah thats really cool stuff in real life too! at 1:10 is the shortest takeoff ive ever seen a plane that size do. and at 1.30 you can see how not to do a rocket assisted landing with a c-130 lol

I had seen somepictures of that operation before, but this video...

It looks like it came straight out of a 007 movie.

[XOIIO]

yeah thats really cool stuff in real life too! at 1:10 is the shortest takeoff ive ever seen a plane that size do. and at 1.30 you can see how not to do a rocket assisted landing with a c-130 lol

holy crap lol! So they just thought of everything it would need to do, and added rockets XD

[Red Iron Crown]

As I recall, one of the goals for the C-130 RATO system was to be able to takeoff and land on a soccer field. This was actually planned as part of a hostage rescue mission (can't recall if it was Americans in Iran or Israelis in Uganda) but was dropped in favor of a more sane mission profile.

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

Originally named JATO (Jet Assisted Take Off) due to the military not trusted ANYTHING with the word 'Rocket' attached, it was invented by a guy called John Whiteside Parsons - possibly the most prominent of the forgotten forefathers of modern rocketry, he and his team were the ones to help set up the GALCIT Rocket Reaearch Group, and the JPL (Jet Propulsion Laboratory) which helped Theodore Von Karman (as Parsons' superior) set up a whole load of other organisations and to teach rocketry as a scinece at CalTech (California Technology College).

Source: "Strange Angel; the Story of John Whitside Parsons" - by George Pendle. Possibly the most awesome book I have ever found in a £1 shop!!!

[stupid mobile 'net... snip!]

[Tortoise]

Because most people like spaceplanes to be SSTOs. And as you said, a decoupler.

[[email protected]]

As I recall, one of the goals for the C-130 RATO system was to be able to takeoff and land on a soccer field. This was actually planned as part of a hostage rescue mission (can't recall if it was Americans in Iran or Israelis in Uganda) but was dropped in favor of a more sane mission profile.

This is correct, I can't remember what mission it was either but I remember a lecture about the proposed mission profile in 1A3X1 3 level school, but that was like 10 years ago so my memory is pretty foggy. Of course now we could just use an Osprey for that kind of mission.

[Cirocco]

And? You tease! Where are the pics, we want to see?! You can't leave it like that, surely :-(

You ask, we deliver:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

And yes, I know that the chutes don't really matter as the game stops rendering once those SRB's are a few kilometers away and will assume a crash, but if that wasn't the case it would work dammit!

Edited May 25, 2014 by Cirocco

[Red Iron Crown]

This is correct, I can't remember what mission it was either but I remember a lecture about the proposed mission profile in 1A3X1 3 level school, but that was like 10 years ago so my memory is pretty foggy. Of course now we could just use an Osprey for that kind of mission.

I had to google it, it was the planned second attempt to rescue the American hostages in Iran.

[HafCoJoe]

yeah thats really cool stuff in real life too! at 1:10 is the shortest takeoff ive ever seen a plane that size do. and at 1.30 you can see how not to do a rocket assisted landing with a c-130 lol

That's probably tied for lead for the coolest plane vid - Other than the fact it exploded D:. - I bet I could do that with a coupla seperatrons...

[davieholgate]

moar boosters?

[astropapi1]

Here's Scott Manley talking about both RATO(L) and the operation it was to take place in.

[Killerdude8]

I use usually 6-8 Seperatrons near the nose to give the plane that extra kick off the ground, It works most of the time..

[TimePeriod]

I use usually 6-8 Seperatrons near the nose to give the plane that extra kick off the ground, It works most of the time..

I found adding canards(?) to be a much more viable option when you need to take off on short runways.

[xcorps]

As I recall, one of the goals for the C-130 RATO system was to be able to takeoff and land on a soccer field. This was actually planned as part of a hostage rescue mission (can't recall if it was Americans in Iran or Israelis in Uganda) but was dropped in favor of a more sane mission profile.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Credible_Sport

Failed test after Eagle Claw.

[Cirocco]

Here's Scott Manley talking about both RATO(L) and the operation it was to take place in.

Oh. Oh dear. Now I need to go make moar space planes... May need to install FAR too...

[Odielthen]

I use usually 6-8 Seperatrons near the nose to give the plane that extra kick off the ground, It works most of the time..

What about the new escape tower? I haven't played with it too much, but I think that it could help!

[Cirocco]

What about the new escape tower? I haven't played with it too much, but I think that it could help!

I've been considering this as well. I've seen someone use a pair in a near vertical powered lift-off. They might be able to be used for a more standard (albeit rocket powered) take-off if positioned correctly. I worry that the angled thrust may be too big though. will look into this tomorrow.

[mellojoe]

I've started launching my spaceplanes vertical, anyway. Strap a couple of SRB's to the thing, stand it on its butt, and fire away. Get a ton of speed vertically and plenty of distance from the ground, then point horizontal. Most of your lateral speed is gained above 15km anyway.

[Cirocco]

What about the new escape tower? I haven't played with it too much, but I think that it could help!

Tested it in a few configurations, but I can't make it work. Mostly because it just burns for such a short time. Yes it has a LOT of TWR, but on heavy craft it just doesn't do much other than just lift the nose briefly. On light craft it can catapult you upwards, but then light craft don't really need RATO.

[Cirocco]

I've started launching my spaceplanes vertical, anyway. Strap a couple of SRB's to the thing, stand it on its butt, and fire away. Get a ton of speed vertically and plenty of distance from the ground, then point horizontal. Most of your lateral speed is gained above 15km anyway.

That is of course an option, but I just like the challenge of keeping that plane under control as I pull up to near vertical

Vertical lift-off just seems... weird... when launching a plane.

[PlonioFludrasco]

It's not RATO, but the C-27 is able to perform very nice short conventional takeoff and landing:

The older version, the G-222, was intended to be cargo STOVL

Very Kerbalish anyway!!

[Hodo]

P.S.: I use vanilla KSP, so I have no idea what FAR does to RATO if anything.

Sorry for your loss.

But I have never had a problem with my space plane SSTOs getting off the runway, even my largest which can haul 108 tons into an orbit of 100km x 100km, I still don't need a RATO system to get it off the ground. I have toyed with the RATO system before but find them useless for most of the things I do.

FAR helps with the aerodynamic model in KSP. The stock KSP aerodynamic model is much like flying a submersible through split pea soup. While FAR fixes this it makes it so that air reacts like air on an aircraft, thus making planes, space planes and anything that flies through the atmosphere act like it should in real life. So pancake rockets don't work well in FAR, if at all.