Opinions on "Kerbal Experience"

[r4pt0r]

Mike (Mu): Well, the experience system has come on in leaps and bounds. The back end is finished and has some nice little features which modders should enjoy. The Kerbal experience traits boost the ship/part they’re on and can have some very funky effects. Currently these include boosting thrust, reducing heat generation, increasing fuel efficiency and boosting science output. Obviously, the performance boosting effects have to be quite subtle to not make things too easy but will still provide a solid boost should you care for your Kerbals.

Do you like this concept, as its described by Mu?? I think that kerbals should not effect part stats myself. Science maybe, but Jeb isnt going to magically squeeze more isp out of an engine, or keep it cooler at full throttle.

EDIT:SQUAD HAS SINCE CANCELED THE IDEA

More details to come im sure

Edited October 23, 2014 by r4pt0r
lol trying to edit poll for I_Killed_Jeb

[I_Killed_Jeb]

I actually was thinking how I'm a bit worried about game balance and craft exchange issues.. I hope it's something you can turn off?

I would also like a "Let's wait and see" option in the poll.

[r4pt0r]

Wait and see might be indifferent? cant edit it unless a mod is lurking this thread.

[Wallygator]

Say it isn't so...

Are we to be granted a physics based game where kerbal a can break the laws of physics?

I'll wait and see, but I'm not impressed with the recap.

[Alguien]

Honestly, it sounds like is part of the "kerbals are able to fly your ships" but Squad for some reason only gods know why, decided to add the bonus first and then they will add the piloting "eventually"

Is honestly the only way i can see it making some sort of sense, sort of

[I_Killed_Jeb]

Wait and see might be indifferent? cant edit it unless a mod is lurking this thread.

But on the contrary I'm very... er... different about this game

[Vallius]

It really depends on how this plays out. The science boost is perfect. The thrust and fuel efficiency--depends. Are we talking about main thrusters having more ISP, or just less wasted RCS when I try to lock my orientation with SAS? The latter possibility actually makes sense, and the former breaks immersion for me.

[Stratzenblitz75]

NO WAY. I don't care if this is supposed to be a game-play feature, Kerbals should NOT be able to boost a craft's efficiency, or thrust or whatever simply by piloting it, that's just ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as turbojets or ions or stock aero in general.

[Draft]

I've been yelling about kerbals influencing craft dV elsewhere, and I'll yell about it here. No bueno.

[BudgetHedgehog]

"So here's my craft which will work perfectly in any save.. provided you have a kerbal of X experience so the thrust is boosted and a kerbal of experience Y which maximises the Isp".

This basically is completely opposite to Squads argument against procedural universes - every player should have the same experience every time. A big part of KSP is the sharing of info, vessels and knowledge and to be able to create a vessel that only works provided you have certain XP (for want of a better word) goes against that.

"Oh hey newbie, you're looking for help getting to orbit? I'm afraid I can't help you - all my kerbals are sufficiently experienced to be able to cope with a vessel that won't work with your kerbals."

Not to mention that this gives no reason to use any other kerbals than the most experienced - "sorry Ferfel, you're not coming. You haven't been on enough mission to be able to make the LV-909 give 75 thrust instead of 50". Given that the game defaults to the first 3 kerbonauts upon launch, the vessel you build might be different to the vessel you launch, depending on how experienced the default 3 are (or however many fit in the pod etc).

Read any topic about being able to upgrade parts via Science or procedural planets/universes and then read Mu's devnotes. This is basically a complete 180 and I really hope Squad reconsiders. Sure, boost science, rep or funds gain or whatever but please don't change the way my ship actually works. It'd basically throw away anyone who uses standardised launchers as subassemblies as well as there's no guarantee they'd work the same across missions.

Please reconsider this, Squad.

Edited October 22, 2014 by ObsessedWithKSP

[PDCWolf]

No. The only thing that sounds reasonable is science gain (although it is already big, even on hard difficulty). One way to call this, in my opinion, would be "too arcade". It feels like a hasty, "glued on" feature in which no time was spent thinking about it and how it'll affect the game and the overall user experience but rather thought out with the "how cool would it be" mentality.

[JimmyAgent007]

Science boost, maybe refuelling boost of some sort once they do something with that. comms range if thats ever an issue. sanity vs time in space. the problem with ship boosts is that they wouldnt just fix up one ship just because that pilot is on it and not everyone else.

maybe they will restrict who can preform the science experiments and you need to have a skilled kerbal to run the materials lab or whatever. not saying thats a good thing.

Edited October 22, 2014 by JimmyAgent007

[I_Killed_Jeb]

One thing that could make sense is for there to be a strong incentive for a more advanced mission to include at least one Kerbal who has been on a simpler type of flight, much in the way Apollo commanders were Mercury/Gemini 'nauts.

[Vanamonde]

This isn't strange at all if you keep in mind that it's an abstraction. A better pilot might need to make fewer corrections, thus using less fuel to make the same maneuver, and creating what is the functional equivalent of getting better ISP out of the engines. It's only implausible if you assume that it's an attempt to duplicate reality in a literal way.

[I_Killed_Jeb]

This isn't strange at all if you keep in mind that it's an abstraction. A better pilot might need to make fewer corrections, thus using less fuel to make the same maneuver, and creating what is the functional equivalent of getting better ISP out of the engines. It's only implausible if you assume that it's an attempt to duplicate reality in a literal way.

Except the Kerbals are not at all piloting the ships. We are. Now, if in the future they were to be able to autonomously fly ships, then sure by all means Jeb should be able to milk more dv out of a boat than say Guscas

[Vanamonde]

Of course the Kerbals are piloting the ships, just like it's your Skyrim character swinging his axe. It's the character's skill that determines whether or not the axe hits, rather than yours.

[hoojiwana]

This isn't strange at all if you keep in mind that it's an abstraction. A better pilot might need to make fewer corrections, thus using less fuel to make the same maneuver, and creating what is the functional equivalent of getting better ISP out of the engines. It's only implausible if you assume that it's an attempt to duplicate reality in a literal way.

The thing is with that, the player is the pilot. The player is the one who may or may not choose the optimal ascent profile, or plans and executes his orbital transfers properly, or whatever. As the players skill and knowledge increases they fly more efficiently, the game doesn't need Jeb wearing Boots of +10 ISP to give that.

[PDCWolf]

This isn't strange at all if you keep in mind that it's an abstraction. A better pilot might need to make fewer corrections, thus using less fuel to make the same maneuver, and creating what is the functional equivalent of getting better ISP out of the engines. It's only implausible if you assume that it's an attempt to duplicate reality in a literal way.

The point is, you can pilot a rocket more efficiently by adjusting ascent paths and using better input overall, but you can't change the way a combustion chamber works or the exhaust particle velocity or the fuel consumption rate just for being in a ship. In the case of adjusting flight paths and control inputs, it is me piloting the ships better, not saving fuel because there's a 5th rank Kerbal on board. It's way too arcade. As I said, I wouldn't mind a smarter kerbal with experience knowing better what experiments to perform or how to perform them or knowing to control a flight computer giving me more/better information in hud or navball, or a very experienced pilot making the SAS stronger/better, those would feel balanced (and more appropriate) and would make a better experience overall than making my ship overly efficient just for having 3 pros on board.

[I_Killed_Jeb]

Of course the Kerbals are piloting the ships, just like it's your Skyrim character swinging his axe. It's the character's skill that determines whether or not the axe hits, rather than yours.

The fact that I didn't personally mathematically optimize the hilt-to-blade ratio of my Dragonborn factors into why this matters more in KSP. And your analogy further breaks down as the entire point of an RPG is that i am playing a role, ergo I am my character in Skyrim. Much in the sense that I am the pilot in KSP

[bigbadben]

This isn't strange at all if you keep in mind that it's an abstraction. A better pilot might need to make fewer corrections, thus using less fuel to make the same maneuver, and creating what is the functional equivalent of getting better ISP out of the engines. It's only implausible if you assume that it's an attempt to duplicate reality in a literal way.

Yeah, except -I- am the pilot. When I watch KSP youtube videos of people doing amazing thing, I know if I get good enough, -I- can do it. When I watch tutorials for difficult maneuvers, I know that -I- can do it too if I learn and understand what's being taught.

With the current exp system being developed, it revolves to leveling up my Kerbal, and then I can attempt some of that stuff. It takes away my piloting skill, and replaces it with an RPGing skill instead, which I think is not meant for this community.

[Draft]

Of course the Kerbals are piloting the ships, just like it's your Skyrim character swinging his axe. It's the character's skill that determines whether or not the axe hits, rather than yours.

KSP isn't Skyrim, nor should it be.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Draft

[bigbadben]

This guy over in the reddit forum has some ideas that I think would be a better fit, in the idea of 'perks' for piloting:

[–]No_MrBond 7 points 41 minutes ago

Not sure if outright boosted science (or ISP) is even ok, maybe things like

Perk; Scientist - Allows results processed in the lab by this Kerbal to return more science by transmission than normal.

Perk; Navigator- Ships piloted by this Kerbal will show an intercept line when a target is selected for rendezvous in the map screen.

Perk; EVA Specialist - Kerbal can repair OX and SP type solar panels whilst on EVA in addition to wheels and landing gear.

[r4pt0r]

Of course the Kerbals are piloting the ships, just like it's your Skyrim character swinging his axe. It's the character's skill that determines whether or not the axe hits, rather than yours.

forgive me, but as I remember skyrim follows certain rules. for example if you are standing ~1 meter away from an NPC and swing, you hit them. you just do, its kind of a law, if i may, in skyrim. KSP follows certain laws too.

[PDCWolf]

Of course the Kerbals are piloting the ships, just like it's your Skyrim character swinging his axe. It's the character's skill that determines whether or not the axe hits, rather than yours.

He/She swings because I click and he/she hits where I aim and when I say so, they fly because I press the keys and decide (or tell them) how to fly my ships. Really, there's no defense to this one in particular other than being arbitrary about it and going "they make the ship more efficient because I programmed it like that", it has no logical background at all.

[Xavven]

I don't like the idea of Kerbals changing thrust, heat, or fuel efficiency, so I voted NO.

Science boost is a good idea.

Hm, how about reputation boost on contract completion? For a real life example, Neil Armstrong being a civilian rather than a military pilot probably helped from a public relations standpoint.

Other than those, I can't think of anything else I would like an experienced Kerbal to offer aside from fluff like getting medals and donning a different colored suit to denote their status (maybe Jeb earns a Gold spacesuit after returning from a body like Moho, Laythe, or Eve).

Anyway, just because it's a feature you can program, doesn't mean it actually improves the game in a material way. There was another thread that asked the community what their priorities were, and it wasn't this (I won't mention what it was for fear of derailing this thread, but I think you know what I am talking about!). Heck, one of the recent announcements touched on the importance on prioritizing features that offer the most improvement to the game per unit of (scarce) development time. Are you SURE you're on the right track with that, Squad?