Is it just me or is the Stayputnik useless now?

[Signo]

I haven't tried it yet, but do those contracts accept the data even if it has zero science left in it?

They do.

10 char+

Edit: ninja'd

[Meecrob]

I have one in orbit around Mun and Minmus. The First one was a wild ride - a 37 second burn to Mun but it inadvertently taught me a tip for using it. Spin stabilization makes it so much easier. Try (struggle) to get it pointed where you want and tap q or e. It will still be totally out of control, but it creates a small circular area of un-controlledness it stays within that you can easily correct when you get to your burn.

[Signo]

I have one in orbit around Mun and Minmus. The First one was a wild ride - a 37 second burn to Mun but it inadvertently taught me a tip for using it. Spin stabilization makes it so much easier. Try (struggle) to get it pointed where you want and tap q or e. It will still be totally out of control, but it creates a small circular area of un-controlledness it stays within that you can easily correct when you get to your burn.

Rolling gives u more stability in any situation.

[Meecrob]

well, yes, that's why we have rifles. Although, try it with a plane one day and see how well it works. I might be interpreting your post incorrectly, but I don't see the purpose of echoing my statement without adding anything other than "well duh of course it works". I only mentioned it because nobody else in the thread so far did.

[chrisc16]

Maybe the idea is to more accurately recreate Sputnik. Had no control once it left the rocket. The only features *afaik* were to adjust the internal temperature, and the change the radio signal based on that temperature.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=ifCUVLKtCo_foASx1oDYAg&url=http://www.russianspaceweb.com/sputnik_design.html&ved=0CBsQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGsAu4zxBpnpNzzE3H1sjCm_DOGCQ&sig2=9cTF4k60OaubRQsp7kcE1w

[passinglurker]

Maybe the idea is to more accurately recreate Sputnik. Had no control once it left the rocket. The only features *afaik* were to adjust the internal temperature, and the change the radio signal based on that temperature.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=ifCUVLKtCo_foASx1oDYAg&url=http://www.russianspaceweb.com/sputnik_design.html&ved=0CBsQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGsAu4zxBpnpNzzE3H1sjCm_DOGCQ&sig2=9cTF4k60OaubRQsp7kcE1w

The issue is ram is a precious resource. historical recreations of sputnik is too small a niche to justify the ram the art assets consume

[Vanamonde]

The utility of the Stayputnik is that it becomes available before the more sophisticated probe cores. It's supposed to be an earlier model, and less capable, and harder to use. But it's still quite useful. You just have to actively steer the ship yourself.

[Yemo]

I propose cloning and adjusting one of the ugly cores for level 0 and give the Stayputnik SAS back.

And while on it, make the new level 0 core available earlier, like Basic rocketry or Stability. Since without SAS it basically would just be a remote control, which were available in the late 40s.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Yemo

[MKI]

Its the first one to be used and least complicated. I also believe its the cheapest, and the most affordable to use if you just need a probe core for a Satellite mission.

Early game, its the first one you get. Its totally possible to fly them, i used mine to get to the moon to upgrade the VAB.

Late game, its still cheap and useful for when you just need i super basic probe for something you just need to control. (I made a rover using it)

[ProStasisX]

Do you think maybe the whole point of the stayputnik is just for recovery of stages now? Since it falls out of the 2.5K limit, you can still switch to it and recover it.

[Renegrade]

Here's a very low tech probe that gets crew reports from orbit using stayputnik:

It's actually unmanned, but the 'crew report' function still works, and the reaction wheels provide attitude control. At that tech level, I didn't have thermometers so there was no way of getting science repeatedly short of the crew report, and I didn't want to strand one of my three kerbals up there long term.

This same design can be used for crew recovery missions if equipped with parachutes (say, slap on a pair of the radial chutes in the empty spots on the side).

You don't need SAS. It's just a convenience.

I do like the concept of moving the lowest probe into an early tier, I'd go with start or basic rocketry personally.

[foamyesque]

I don't get all the complaints about not being able to control the Stayputnik. It flies fine, if a little-overresponsively because I've usually got it on something that has more torque than it really should for its mass. Sure, you can't just hit T and forget about stuff, but it's not hard.

[cantab]

In career it's the early tech probe core. It's sensible that it's limited.

And yet in sandbox it's still not entirely outclassed either. In sandbox all probes have all the SAS functions. If you don't need torque the Stayputnik is 50 kg, while any probe with a reaction wheel is 100 kg or more. If you do, Stayputnik+small reaction wheel is also 100 kg but gives masses more thrust.

The OKTO2 and QBE, while both lighter than the Stayputnik, have much smaller batteries, and the OKTO2 also needs more power. It's a bit situational, but if for some reason you don't want to add a battery the Stayputnik thus might be the better choice.

[Nuke]

its useful for unmanned test flight contracts. i usually build those to the bare minimum needed to accomplish the mission goals, then i just return to the space center when it destroys itself. its not really useful for any space manuvers at all. it has its place, but its a very small niche.

[Troubletcat]

I've got stayputnik's in orbit around Kerbin, Mun, and Minmus and have landed them on Mun and Minmus as well. I actually thought it was a fun challenge. SAS was already in the game in the first version I played so I never really had the experience of flying without it. It's very doable, but much harder. I really like that the first probe core you unlock is so basic and hope they don't change it.

However, I do think it'd be good if it was earlier in the tech tree considering how basic it is. Survivability maybe (after all, it's the ultimate solution).

[Rusty6899]

I used them a fair bit for satellites and to complete the explore mun and minmus missions. You need a reaction wheel, and to be able to fly reasonably well, the landings on Mun and Minmus were pretty sketchy. My craft fell over both times, but I managed to get the minmus one back into orbit.

[Laie]

The name is STAYPUTnik, and it can't stay put when it comes to attitude.

The stayputnik has a good shape for covering it in ox-stat panels and leaving it behind in orbit. Add thermometer and antenna and it may serve a real purpose. But that's the only proper use I can think of.

Other than that, it can provide for failed launches, teaching the new player the difference between (and importance of) control / SAS / reaction wheels. People have to learn this some way or another, and I can think of far more infuriating circumstances than your first satellite launch.

Finally, I want to remind you of its' namesake.

[KerrMü]

In early career I completed my very first satellite contract, rescue mission and explore the Mun mission with the Stayputnik. It's challenging. I like that . Definitely not useless.

[thyriel]

Useless ? It's great now. Perfect for satellite contracts... It needs the reaction wheel that was pretty useless before (never used a small one once i had bigger ones)... And you have the choice, fly it yourself (which isn't too hard) or build a manned mission to deliver the satellite

[ghpstage]

I find it quite useful, and like others I also like it for aesthetic reasons.

With 0.9s limited weight and parts count its pretty hard to get an early Mun landing, and with the limited contracts we don't really want that contract blocking others ones for the mid term. To make matters worse the much easier Minmus exploration contract doesn't come up until you've started the Mun one....

A probe using the Stayputnik is a good solution to this as all you need to do to clear the contract is the ability to land and send some science back. The exact same rocket-probe set up can be used to clear the Minmus contract too, and if your probe carries a thermometer its likely got enough fuel to take a big chunk out of, if not complete a Minmus temp scan contract.

Then there's the satellite and orbital science contracts.

It does have a few issues, but I think the real issues lie with the tech tree.

If the Stayputnik was a starter part, with a poor quality battery and reaction wheel available to go on it then I think it would be appreciated a lot more.

[kanelives]

How can you make probes then? Does the octagonal shaped one work as a standalone? I have a contract for getting three temperature samples from minimus surface and I was going to just hop around the planet and leave the probe there but I guess I can't do that? At least unmanned anyway.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Personally I think it's useful for crew retrieval missions where you need an unmanned capsule.

[Bill Phil]

I just think that all probes should upgrade when you get the new one. Like a software upgrade or something. But that's just me...