Norcalplanner

Be careful - I've had conflicts between color coded canisters and R&D in the past. It adds different color options to the stock tanks as well as loadout switching, which (in the past) meant that R&D is no longer able to upgrade the tanks. FTP is great, but none of those tanks can be upgraded.

It's funny - you've decided not to use R&D until you're done with the tech tree, while one of my personal quirks is to never use hyperedit. I love how KSP can accommodate all sorts of play styles and house rules.

Thanks for explaining your upgrade philosophy. Science relay should help - I'm using it as well. You might want to consider adding a few more ore tanks to your lander. You only need a vacuum TWR of 4 (local to Iota) for a really efficient ascent, which works out to a Gael TWR of 0.34. Adding two or four more ore tanks will make things even more efficient, albeit with slightly thinner delta v margins. This might help too when ascending from the surface:

@eddiew As one of the few other players running GPP at 3.2x with Kerbal R&D, I'm available to talk and brainstorm, either here or via PM. One thing that jumps out at me is that your science return setting is down at 10%, iirc. I don't think anyone would think any less of you if you bumped it up to 20 or 25%, and it would provide additional science to start upgrading the vacuum Isp on a few engines to help out your landing/mining efforts.

Chapter 12 - Hermes Space Program Shaking off the setback of the Hermes III lander failure at Icarus, new plans are drawn up for the further exploration of Gael's neighbors. The Hermes III probe is modified a number of times, eventually yielding the Hermes IIIf, IIIg, IIIi, and IIIh. Some versions have less delta V, some have radiators, and all get retrofitted with RTGs for power. There's definitely a nuclear slant to the space program now with the copious RTGs and LV-Ns. Another Icarus transfer window is approaching, and the Hermes IIIf is sent aloft. This revised version of the probe is retrofitted with radiators, RTGs, and Karbonite / Karborundum scanning equipment. Since there's already an orbital scanning/science satellite around Icarus, that portion is omitted from the design. The Illustrious I lander attached to Thunderer Station is dispatched to Ceti's north pole to grab some additional science which hadn't been retrieved to that point. It also allows one of the new crew members to gain some additional experience by planting a flag. Pilot Caranne Kerman plants his flag and makes his mark near the pole. His ascent and rendezvous with Thunderer Station is uneventful and undocumented. The Bluebird XLR craft returns from its expedition outside of Gael's SOI, and docks to Thunderer station to drop off additional copies of their crew reports and EVA reports for further processing. KABOOM's PR department likes this shot - with three different craft docked to Thunderer Station, it looks like the program actually knows what it's doing. This also makes Thunderer Station into the largest Kerballed craft outside of LGO with the most Kerbals on board (eight aboard and capacity for 29), albeit briefly. The Bluebird XLR then casts off and heads for Iota, where they complete a landing in one of Iota's canyon-ey parts (still classified as the Midlands). A flag is planted to mark what could be an interesting surface base location. After Iota, the four trainees make an uneventful return and reentry back to Gael. However, we now have four Kerbals, including two veterans, which are now three stars. We'll have to transfer them to a station later where the more experienced scientists can make a difference. The Hermes IIIc arrives at Thalia and begins its orbital insertion burn. This intermediate design has only one radiator on the lander, as it was launched after the GPP1.1 storm but before the Icarus lander disaster. Subsequent versions intended for inner planets have two radiators on the lander. Hopefully it will be enough. The burn is completed, and a highly elliptical orbit results in an efficient transfer to Eta. The decision is made to fully scan Eta and explore it before tackling Thalia proper and risk losing the lander. The Hermes IIIg is launched to take advantage of a transfer window to Otho. The fairing looks tall and goofy (that's a technical term) because this new version of the Hermes probe mounts the lander and scanning satellite in line with each other. This results in fewer control problems compared to the side-mounted lander design of earlier Hermes probes, and allows a a narrower (but taller) fairing. Overall size and cost of the Hermes is reduced by simplifying the launcher and reducing some redundant expensive science gear on the craft (such as the Dmagic compact versions of the materials bay and goo cannister). KABOOM's efforts to find more Karbonite and Karborundum result in the Cornelius V sensor probe, sent aloft aboard a relatively simple 2.5m Mainsail-powered launcher. Kerbal R&D is really helping out now - the upper stage LV-N now has an Isp of 1040, and a weight of 1.5 tons. The liquid fuel tanks have had their capacity increased and weight lowered several times. The plan is to hit Niven for a gravity assist, then try to get into low Ciro orbit and/or Icarus to see what's what. The Icarus transfer window arrives, and the Hermes IIIf with its double-radiator lander is sent on its way. The improved engines are really helping out now, as shown in the delta V figures and the Isp of the Penguin vacuum engine. The Hermes IIIh is sent to Niven aboard a new SRB-only lifter. The lower delta V requirements of a Niven trip, combined with the improved capability of the LV-N powered upper stage, make this possible. Because of the possibilities of long-term Kerballed exploration and colonization of Niven, the decision is made to send some comm satellites for constant communications. The Monarch III, an upgraded variant of the Monarch class which previously put commsats around Iota and Ceti, is tapped for the job. We have the beginnings of a flotilla heading to Niven. A decision is made to add another ship to the Niven flotilla in the form of the Courageous II. An upgraded version of the craft which dropped unpowered microprobes on Tellumo, this should ensure that we hit at least three different biomes at Niven. A different SRB-only lifter configuration is tried - KABOOM's engineers are clearly experimenting a bit with these uncrewed launches. The incredibly tall and slender Pegasus III reconnaissance satellite joins the Niven flotilla. Close review of our orbital survey contracts indicated that the parts for the two recon science experiments were accidentally omitted from the standard scanning satellite, so this one is sent up as well. Hopefully we'll still be able to complete the contracts. The Pegasus III with large dish antenna deployed and heading to Niven. Since this version is fitted with RTGs, it's no longer critical to keep the craft oriented so that the dish doesn't block the solar panels. With all the craft heading to various planets, KABOOM's comm planners decide to launch the Inquisitor III satellite, to be parked somewhere below Thalia in the Ciro system. Hopefully it will help provide an alternative communications path for all the craft zipping around to various destinations. The Inquisitor III, with dishes deployed, is heading out. Using only chemical rockets, its range is much smaller than some other recent designs. Future variants will have LV-Ns for greater range. All the attention given to the inner planets is temporarily interrupted by the launch of the Hermes IIIi, which heads to Gauss. We're really getting a lot of mileage out of this Hermes III craft design, although no two are quite the same. Maybe we'll come up with a different design for the upcoming Gratian transfer window... in the next chapter. [editorial mode on] I was able to finally hit KSP hard for both days over the weekend, resulting in many craft heading in many different directions. Because of the large number of craft on their way, including four(!) heading to Niven, I've decided that, apart from a probe heading to Gauss, no new craft are going to be launched until we've finished with at least some of what is currently in transit. The master plan at this point is to do as much unmanned scanning and exploration as possible, then send Kerbals interplanetary in two or three years once some of these unmanned missions are done. [editorial mode off]

Chapter 11 - Back in the Saddle, and an Icarus Encounter With the upgrade storm in the rear view mirror, it's time to resume KABOOM's exploration of the system. Another Bluebird XLR is launched to take a new crew to Thunderer station in orbit around Ceti. We're mixing up the crews a bit, trying to make sure everyone gets as much experience as possible from LGO, Iota, and Ceti. Docked to Conqueror station around Iota. Everything appears to still be in working order. Another Bluebird XLR takes a crew to Thunderer station around Ceti. To grab a bit more science and make sure everyone is getting as much experience as possible, select Kerbals are sent down to Iota to grab those science experiments which were previously missed, and earn some more XP. Speaking of XP, the decision is made to undertake a specific training program. Four Kerbals in need of additional experience are launched aboard a Bluebird XLR II, with two more SRBs and large food canisters for extended space operations. First stop for our training craft is Sustainer station, in high Ceti orbit. Isane Kerman was the lone Kerbal to remain aboard a station during the storm, and she seems none the worse for wear. Our training crew drops off some of the food to resupply Sustainer station, tops off their tanks, then sets off to be the first Kerballed ship to briefly depart from Gael's SOI. Another Bluebird variant is wheeled to the pad. This one carries a crew destined for Vanguard Station, our massive 200-Kerbal capacity station which is intended to replace Pioneer station. Although a bit difficult to make out in this image, a small science/comms module is carried on the front of this Bluebird. By adding science experiments and antennas to Vanguard Station (in the background), it finally becomes fully operational. This is also one of the first times I docked to a large station without rotating the station - Vanguard stayed oriented to the normal vector the whole time, with all maneuvering being done by the smaller craft. KABOOM's engineers decide it's finally time to start working on aircraft again, in part with an eye towards exploring Tellumo when we finally get there with some Kerbals. Impressed with the UHB turbofan supplied by the Karbonite mod, a few overpowered planes are built. This one worked fairly well, but had far too much control authority. Pilot blackouts were commonplace, and Val actually received a commendation from Final Frontier for enduring 14 Gs for more than 3 seconds. This plane was faster than blazes, but had insufficient control authority. Landing was a bit of a challenge... Hmmm. Back to the drawing board on that one. At long last, the Hermes III probe arrives at Icarus. The orbital insertion burn is just over 12 km/s. It's a good thing the probe has upgraded liquid fuel tanks and LV-Ns. Success! We're in an elliptical suborbital trajectory, but it still counts. A small burn at Ap raises the Pe above the surface and changes inclination to a polar orbit. The satellite portion of the Hermes III casts off, and enters an orbit suitable for scanning terrain, biomes, and resources. A few weeks pass while it completes its scans, as Icarus rotates very slowly. With biome and terrain data in hand, the lander mothership portion of the probe enters into a low polar orbit, and the lander casts off. A location near the intersection of three biomes is chosen, and hopes are running high. As the lander approaches the surface, a plethora of temperature bars suddenly appear. Vague recollections about the GPP 1.1 storm changing the heat characteristics of certain planets suddenly come flooding back. Temperatures critical! Abort! Abort! Full power is applied to the engines. Downward velocity is arrested, and the lander starts heading back up. Maybe, just maybe we can pull out of this... Nope. Crap. The lander is already dead, it just doesn't know it yet. The probe core was one of the first parts to go. However, just like a chicken with its head cut off, the engines are stuck on full throttle and keep burning. The induced gravity keeps the formerly-connected portions of the lander together as it enters a slow somersault. The fuel tank finally goes, and the remnants of the lander all head back down to the surface of Icarus for the final time. Small consolation is taken in that some parts of the lander did actually touch Icarus. Sigh. Time to do this again, only with radiators... in a future chapter.

You tricky, clever designers... Now I have to relaunch my Icarus probe mission with a better lander that will survive long enough to touch down!

I think you've inadvertently recreated the destruction of Freeport 7 from the intro of Freelancer.

Chapter 10 - Evacuate and Begin Anew KABOOM's scientists discover a monstrous space storm approaching Gael. Dubbed the "KSP 1.2.2 / GPP 1.1 Vortex", indications are that the storm could be no big deal, or it could have catastrophic consequences to all missions currently underway. With an arrival time one month in the future, the word is swiftly sent out - evacuate all Kerbals from spacecraft and stations and return them to Gael. Unmanned probes will have to simply hope for the best. First to evacuate is the crew of Pioneer Station in LGO. Here we see the Martlet I craft pushing back. One crew down, two to go. You can see in this shot that funds are not currently a problem. Next to push back is the crew of Thunderer station in a Bluebird. In 3.2x, it can take almost a month to transfer to or from Ceti, so the crew burns a little extra fuel to speed the trip home. Many more medals are given out, courtesy of Final Frontier. Valentina is the current record holder for duration, having spent over 300 days in space in a single mission. The crew of Conqueror Station is the last to depart for Gael. A glitch made the clouds disappear for awhile. A shot of the last Bluebird heading through the atmosphere for all you data hounds. The heat tolerance on the heat shield has been improved with Kerbal R&D by one level. Makes a huge difference when reentering in an upscaled system, since all heat is still at 100%. All the Kerbals are now safe back home, albeit with heavier left lapels on their dress uniforms. Everyone heads for the shelter beneath the astronaut complex as the storm approaches... In a sudden burst of static, a lone cryptic image is received by the comms array, labeled "Dakar 2017 entry". Everyone scratches their heads. The comms array is trained at Tellumo to see if the probes there still exist. Happily, the Courageous I answers that all is at the ready. To test things out and test the atmosphere (which seems to have changed a bit), one of the atmospheric probes is detached and sent to the surface. Pretty. And we're down in a previously unsampled biome - the Midlands. With KAC indicating that a Thalia transfer window is fast approaching, KABOOM's engineers modify the Hermes III probe again, this time adding some radiators. (One of the KABOOM scientists swore up and down that Thalia seemed to be hotter now.) With an unmanned launch working fine, a real Bluebird in classic configuration is wheeled out to the pad. It's time to put personnel back in those stations and keep churning out the science. Yep. We're back, and better than ever. The crew transfers uneventfully to Conqueror station and resumes the work of their predecessors. More launches, and the Hermes IIIa probe's arrival at Icarus... in the next chapter. [editorial mode on] So I tried to migrate my GPP career save to KSP 1.2.2 a few weeks ago, but it rapidly devolved into a glitchy mess. Ragequitting and playing Fallout 4 for a few weeks, I was inspired to pick my GPP career up again when GPP 1.1 dropped. This time, things went much better - the only thing I had trouble with the included 3.2x scale settings for Sigma Dimensions (many errors), so I simply manually recreated most of my previous 3.2x settings, although I increased the atmosphere height slightly and used the new top atmosphere variable (which worked with no errors). I don't know if the evacuation was strictly needed, but it certainly gave me more piece of mind knowing that every single craft could disappear and I'd be OK. I've invested a lot of time in this save, particularly with all the R&D upgrades, so that was the most important thing to me. Thankfully, everything seems to have come through just fine, and the solar system now looks even better. I look forward to exploring the new mysteries which await. Much thanks to Galileo and Co. for their fantastic work. [editorial mode off]

IIRC, that was one of the considerations which led me to keep the atmosphere as-is at 70 km and deal with the heating issues for returns. Now I just look at the text of the contract - if it says low orbit, I'll pass.

Who believes in Antarctica? I think that it's all a conspiracy using footage shot in Norway featuring a bunch of animatronic penguins.

In the past I've been very boring and descriptive - think " Mun polar scansat I" and similar. In my current career, I am drawing names shamelessly from the ranks of British naval ships and aircraft, with the odd "in joke" and a Roman numeral. Lifters tend to be named after ships whose names are inspirational adjectives, such as Glorious I, Illustrious II, and Courageous III. Stations tend to be named after ships whose names are descriptive nouns such as Pioneer, Conqueror, and Thunderer. Specific spacecraft tend to be named after ships and planes with bird names such as Eagle II or Martlet I. Interplanetary craft are named after gods and heroes, such as Hermes and Hercules. And all of my commonly used upper stages have some sort of Centaur connection, such as Ajax and Achilles.

The great thing with SMURFF is that it's adjustable using the "lever" variables in the config. You can separately tweak how much the mass is reduced for each class of part. Full lever, or 1.0 value for the variables, is intended for 10x, while you can use 0.5 for 6.4x or 0.2 for 3.2x. Just like the rest of KSP, SMURFF allows you to tweak the difficulty so it's fun for you particular playstyle. If anyone does choose to go 10x with SMURFF, I'd recommend adding Real Scale Boosters in addition to SpaceY.

Woohoo! Time to upgrade! After an abortive attempt to upgrade my 3.2x GPP career to KSP 1.2.2 a few weeks ago, I'm bringing home all my Kerbals this time first. (They're only as far out as Ceti so far.) Once everyone is safely landed, we'll attempt to upgrade both to KSP 1.2.2 and GPP version 1.1. That way, if there are any glitches which are craft specific, I can just delete the offending craft and hopefully proceed with minimal drama. It will probably be the weekend before I can put in any serious time with this, though.

Agreed, but with some first stage telemetry shown in addition to that coming from the second stage.

I've been doing a 3.2x career in GPP with Kerbal R&D, but RL has prevented me from playing much in the last few weeks. (There are definitely pros and cons to being gainfully employed.) I find that this combo works great, but I will say that I'm a rocket guy. I find that using Stage Recovery, combined with certain key part upgrades, results in a very satisfying career with very limited use of disposable stages. Rockets are larger than stock, but not so large as to seem unreasonable. While I'm not the best spaceplane guy, I think that if you embrace the idea that you'll always have to top off in LGO before going anywhere, then it should be possible to continue using them, although it may be a bit more challenging than before. One thing I would suggest is installing Karbonite, as GPP was specifically designed to use it. I've already found an exoatmospheric (sp?) concentration of Karbonite at a particular height around one of Gael's moons, which means that I don't need to land a miner to generate new fuel. Based on some comments and hints dropped by the mod devs, it sounds like some planets or moons may have atmospheric Karbonite concentrations high enough to allow net positive refueling while in flight if the craft has the right sort of scoops and personnel on board.

I watched the whole thing. It was actually fairly coherent - he's going through some RL stuff, and the game isn't very fun for him with all the post 0.90 changes. Listen starting at 7:10, including the epiphany starting at 7:45 and some fairly insightful introspection starting at 8:30, culminating in a decision at 11:00.

Here's my entry, the OTE-1. It completed the rally in 1:39:41. Built around an orange tank, the OTE-1 (Orange Tank Explorer) masses 35 tons and is supported by four of the largest rover wheels. A Wheesley jet engine at the rear provides supplemental thrust for going up steep hills, but was only used about 5% of the time. Most forward momentum was created by using the differential steering trick, which regularly got the rover up to 50 m/s or higher. The third attempt is the one that actually completed the race. The first version didn't have the stylish beams projecting forward and backward (resulting in a RUD and Jeb's death), and the second version still had the oxidizer, which was emptied in the final design (with oxidizer, one of the front wheels broke after a landing). Bone stock, the only adjustment was to increase the spring strength on the wheels to 1.2 times standard. Photos and stage times are in the spoiler.

We choose to go to the Moon complete the Kerbal Dakar 2017 Rally with a 35-ton rover built around an orange tank not because it is easy, but because it is hard ridiculous... Actually completed three stages so far with this thing. I'll make a properly documented post in the entry thread when I'm done.

Thanks!

Possibly, but I think Tellumo should be doable with some ISRU. Galileo and JadeofMaar keep encouraging people to install Karbonite, so I'm looking forward to seeing what the deposits/concentrations are like on and near the planet. I suspect that there may be some way to use it to get a leg up. And yes, the 3.2x scale does really force you to look at where to spend your science points and decide how far to upgrade things. I've put some limits on myself, so I'll never get the crazy powerful LV-Ns that you were getting.

I'm really enjoying my KRnD career in a 3.2x scale version of Galileo's Planet Pack. Seems to be working well so far in 1.2.1. I'm almost done with my 1.2.2 install with all the same mods, so hopefully the save file will make the trip successfully.

A picture will probably help a lot here: Think of the hypotenuse as the thrust vector of the rocket. The adjacent side is the horizontal component of the vector, and the opposite side is the vertical component of the vector. If the right angle were to be unfolded, such that the adjacent side (horizontal component) and opposite side (vertical component) were laid end to end, they would indeed have a total length greater than the hypotenuse. The "new thinking" of the OP, to the extent that there is any "new thinking" to be had in rocketry or trigonometry, is to calculate opposite/(hypotenuse - adjacent) to produce a number that I'm labeling "Efficiency of the Trade". It gives you an idea of how much horizontal thrust you're sacrificing at a particular angle in exchange for vertical thrust needed to avoid smashing into the ground. It's the same concept as combining inclination changes with circularization burns, as you can burn at a diagonal between the two desired vectors to end up where you want to be with a smaller delta V expenditure.

It's certainly possible with 9,500 m/s or less, so long as the TWR is high enough, the rocket is aerodynamic enough, and a good ascent profile is chosen. I think aero may have changed a little bit since 1.1.3 when I did the post below, but not a whole bunch.

Genesis of this post: Back when I was playing my RSS/SMURFF career in 1.1.3, I made a lunar base with refueling infrastructure. The fully loaded tanker ascending from the surface had a TWR of only 1.57, and my analytical brain wanted to know empirically what angle above the horizon I should point my craft to make it to orbit using the least delta V possible (since the expenditure is so high in RSS). After playing with some trigonometric functions on the calculator, I was able to figure out that 40 degrees above the horizon was a good orientation for the beginning of the ascent. And surprisingly, due to maths, I found out that the craft was only "wasting" less than 1/4 of its thrust to stay aloft and avoid unplanned lithobraking. Because I worked out all the numbers (and just found them again), I thought I would share them here so that others can benefit. Disclaimer: I am not a slide rule jockey like some others are on the forum. However, I do remember some high school math, and know how to use some of the pretty buttons on my calculator. The post: When it comes to getting to orbit, the mantra goes like this - Vertical velocity is temporary, but horizontal velocity is yours to keep. Particularly on airless worlds where atmospheric drag isn't a factor, the corollary becomes - For an efficient ascent, minimize how much delta V you spend on vertical velocity. We all know intuitively and/or from experience that thrusting straight up to orbital height, then turning sideways and burning to gain orbital speed results in a very inefficient launch. It's better to "cut the corner" and ascend at an angle. There's lots of discussion of gravity turns and ascent profiles from Kerbin, but not much for Mun, Minmus, or other airless worlds. But exactly how far over should you tip? That's what this post will let you know. Here's the big chart with all the data. I'll do some explanation below. Degrees above horizon (Alpha) Horizontal Thrust (Percentage of total) Vertical Thrust (Percentage of total) The Trade (Horizontal loss vs. vertical gain) Efficiency of the Trade Min TWR to avoid Lithobraking 5 99.6% 8.7% -0.4% vs. +8.7% 21.8 : 1 11.5 10 98.5% 17.4% -1.5% vs. +17.4% 11.6 : 1 5.75 15 96.9% 25.9% -3.1% vs. +25.9% 8.35 : 1 3.86 20 94.0% 34.2% -6.0% vs. +34.2% 5.7 : 1 2.92 25 90.6% 42.3% -9.4% vs. +42.3% 4.5 : 1 2.36 30 86.6% 50.0% -13.4% vs. +50.0% 3.73 : 1 2.00 35 81.9% 57.4% -18.1% vs. +57.4% 3.17 : 1 1.74 40 76.6% 64.3% -23.4% vs. +64.3% 2.74 : 1 1.55 45 70.7% 70.7% -29.3% vs. +70.7% 2.41 : 1 1.41 Degrees above horizon is simply how far above the horizon the craft should point. This is also the "alpha" angle for the trigonometry. Horizontal Thrust is how much of the total rocket thrust is being converted into sideways velocity. Also known as the cosine of alpha. Vertical Thrust is how much of the total rocket thrust is being converted into vertical velocity (which is temporary and should be gotten as cheaply as possible). Also known as the sine of alpha. The Trade is just how much of the total horizontal velocity is being forsaken in lieu of an increase in upward velocity. Essentially comparing 1-cos(alpha) to sin(alpha). Efficiency of the Trade shows just how cheaply the vertical velocity is being gained because of the way the angles work out. The number is highest when the angle above the horizon is the smallest, and grows smaller the larger the angle above the horizon becomes. Min TWR to avoid Lithobraking is what your craft's TWR needs to be (relative to that particular celestial body) to take advantage of that particular ascent angle. For example, if your craft only has a TWR of 4, then pointing it 10 degrees above the horizon will result in it falling back to the surface and a rapid unplanned disassembly. Discussion: So what the chart shows is that, due to the way the math works out, it is most efficient to gain the required vertical velocity by pointing some certain angle above the horizon when ascending. Yes, the angle will change over time due to changes in mass by burning fuel, and the angle itself will change over time due to the curvature of the body. But as a general rule, these numbers should hold for the first part of an ascent. They're also helpful in any situation where atmospheric drag isn't a factor, such as in helping to decide on an angle for an low-thrust orbital insertion stage. Speaking for myself, it was amazing just how efficient it can be to "cut the corner" when ascending. For example, a Munar lander craft taking off with a low TWR of 3 can instantly crank over to 20 degrees above the horizon, terrain permitting, and dedicate fully 94 percent of its total thrust to gaining sideways velocity. For a TWR of 12, which isn't unheard of on Minmus, the ascending craft can crank it all the way down to 5 degrees above the horizon, expending a mere 0.4% of the total thrust to avoid crashing back into the surface. TL;DR: Look up the TWR of your Munar lander in the rightmost column, then make an efficient ascent by aiming the craft at the corresponding degrees above the horizon in the leftmost column.