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Vl3d

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    Automation integrated systems

    in Prelaunch KSP2 Suggestions & Development Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Vl3d

    I know how controversial this subject is, I have read some long threads about it. I think we can have a constructive discussion if we stick to a few principles:

    1. Clearly state the specific problem we are trying to solve.

    2. Talk about ways (paradigms) to implement the automation solution.

    I will make a list of identified problems and ways to solve them through automation in this OP. I will centralize ideas (new and existing) and update regularly.

    I am not concerned about the learning process and how the levels of automation are unlocked according to experience, knowledge and skill levels. This is for the devs to decide. I am more concerned about paradigms to implement automation, using:

    A. Parts

    B. Interface tools

    C. Scripting

    D. Recording

     

    Guiding principles:

    1. Do everything manually at least once.

    2. If it gets repetitive, automate it.

    3. Everything is a part (module) with an associated cost.

    4. Centralize command and control.

    5. Record only what you can automate.

    6. Plan anything you can record.

    7. All interfaces have a unified look.

     

    My suggestions:

    I think that every automation process should have a corresponding part that gets added (or upgraded) on the craft, as it's tradition. So A is closely related to B, C and D.

    This is why I think we should have a integrated system, a central Command & Control Core (CCC) part, where we could add automation modules (as parts). So everything related to automation would become a module (like installing software on a PC). And each module would then have it's GUI representation - up to the devs / modders.

    - So we know that stock KSP1 already has automation baked in mainly through action groups, SAS, RCS and KAL-1000. I feel like all of these should be modules for the CCC.

    - Unfortunately one significant thing that's missing is conditional triggers. This is fixed by the SmartParts mod, which I feel should be stock as modules for the CCC.

    - We should have a telemetry module that centralized all information regarding craft sensors and components state.

    - We should also have a science module for the CCC, where we can have an overview of all instruments, experiments and sensors.

    - All MechJeb features related to automation I think should be stock as CCC modules parts in a simplified, easy to use format (like SAS). You decide what to use if you can afford the parts and if you unlocked them. It should be a construction decision, not an interface decision. If you want to be able to hover, add a hover module. If you want to automate ascent / rendezvous / docking / landing / maneuver nodes execution - add the appropriate modules.

    - KOS should also be a module you could add to the Command & Control Core. It would interact with all other modules and with craft state information. This way we could easily create abstraction layers for scripting (interact with MechJeb, SAS, SmartParts, action groups, telemetry etc).

    - Journey recorder should be a module and it should only be able to record and re-do flying and rover driving if you have all the other necessary modules on-board (you can't record docking / landing / maneuver execution without MechJeb docking / landing / maneuver automation modules etc.). It should be linked to the journey planner for a clear overview of logistics.

    - There should also be a colony CCC building and modules for base related automation.

    - Future mods regarding automation should be integrated as modules for the CCC, not direct game interface add-ons (they would have module GUIs with a unified look). I don't know how it would work exactly, but it would look more streamlined and everything would be managed by the CCC.

    - Fuel distribution automation for center of mass control.

    - Thrust / vectoring / RCS control - modules (if engine parts support them). It would allow us to control VTOL and transformer craft.

    - Aerodynamic surfaces control - centralized as a module.

    - Have a CCC progression (mechanical -> electric -> electronic -> computer -> machine learning / AI). And then you can also upgrade the CCC hardware for any type of pod/probe and also update the software (with modules).

    - Initially on primitive craft replace modules like hardware components, but later be able to wirelessly update modules. But CCC hardware upgrades could only be done physically.

    Other automation ideas:

    - Manufacturing planner: build N craft of type X, economics overview etc.

    - Logistics planner: similar to journey planner, related to manufacturing planner. Would manage automated resources transportation routes.

    - Science planner: automate experiments, have overview of available science parts per craft, check realtime sensors - R&D extension.

    I will add more ideas...

    Kerbal Space Program 2 to be released in 2022 [Discussion Thread]

    in Prelaunch KSP2 Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Vl3d

    Clearly what happened is that the devs tried to release according to the announced date in 2020 and they started a marketing campaign, doing interviews on podcasts and for magazines, releasing nicely put together videos, complex and well written show and tell articles. Then everyone realized the game needs more work (best decision from my pov), marketing and communication budget got cut. And now we're ~5 months in the dark and counting.

    Look, I don't care if the game comes out in 2022/23/24 etc. It's going to be epic because I 100% trust the people involved. They love the game, they understand it, it's a passion project. But what I do care about is not going crazy thinking about the N different ways KSP could fulfill it's potential of being the best game ever made, all while playing KSP1 and thinking "I wish they improved this, I wish they added this, I wish I could do this, go there, find X".

    KSP1 mods don't really scratch the itch for me because I believe in creative vision. I don't want to "write the book for the author", I want to live in that world. But now I'm just building a resource colony on  Minimus to have cheap fuel to go.. where? I've explored everything. It's all empty! And I want to find flags planted by other players with funny messages, the valley of ships that wrecked on the Mun, the derelicts with little kerbal skeletons that could got stranded with 0 fuel on their way back to Kerbin, the first colony next to the alien ruins... we can't have that in KSP1.

    Forgive me, I'm a dreamer..

    KSP: "Not Planning to be at PAX East this year"

    in Prelaunch KSP2 Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Vl3d

    I think the bigger issue is the lack of NEW information about the game.

    We know KSP1, we know the part mods and the planet packs, we know the gameplay loop for building colonies, mining resources and for going interstellar. It's been done before.

    But everything else is classified: we know next to nothing about KSP2 - multiplayer gameplay, quests and lore, what we can find on the planets, the automation features, life support.

    At this point KSP2 just feels like a modded KSP1 Interstellar.

    And all the speculation is hurting the community.

    what gamemodes would you like in ksp2?

    in Prelaunch KSP2 Discussion

    Posted

    1. Using fewer words for clarity. Strictly my opinion. Forget KSP1 - you are too used to it. Main mode for KSP2:

    Discover -> explore -> do science -> build and grow colony -> mine resources -> build and automate transport infrastructure -> expand with new shipyard / launchpad -> repeat.

    All this motivated by well written quests and intrigue.

    2. Science mode would just be similar but you focus on exploration and discovery of new (default / pre-built) launch locations without us building colonies or mining stuff.

    3. Sandbox mode is a given.

    4. Money can't buy resources that no one has mined. So forget about money. We're building with raw resources and (I hope) time.

    5. We really do not know anything about multiplayer except we're going to have emotes for kerbals. Everything about multiplayer is just speculation.

    6. Stop the speculation! Please devs communicate more about the game!

    VAB interface components

    in Prelaunch KSP2 Discussion

    Posted

    What didn't you like about the old VAB? I like the new feature of designing multiple craft inside a single project - not having to search for saves to merge and not having ghost sub-assemblies. And I hate how hard it is to align centers of mass / thrust / aero sometimes.

    What I would really like would be a better way to manage craft families, to evolve versions of craft, have more incentive to reuse complex projects.

    VAB interface components

    in Prelaunch KSP2 Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Vl3d

    Cargo icon disappeared from lower right (was probably the resource manager and was replaced by fuel idk), also that X / V checklist icon from orange rocket image lower middle.

    There was also a rocket icon on the lower left - last in menu (orange rocket).

    Have no idea where are robotics, smart parts, ISRU, life support, crew assignment.. like @Pthigrivi said.

    Also where are the rotation angle / root tools?

    VAB interface components

    in Prelaunch KSP2 Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Vl3d
    clarified some ideas

    1 : switch VAB / SPH.. seems like we would not switch buildings, only vertical / horizontal orientation

    2 : undo

    3 : redo

    4 : symmetry number

    5 : symmetry type (radial / mirrored)

    6, 7, 8, 9 : subassemblies stacks? select, move, reorder stack.. staging?

    10, 11, 12 : aerodynamic, thrust, weight center points

    13 : radiation / heat center? wow..

    A, B : have no clue

    C : general search for category or part or type of fuel ?

    D, E, F : sort by size, mass, type

    G : filter / more sorting options

    H : favorite parts

    I : command pods, probes here or at S?

    J : tanks

    K : engines

    L : structural (first thoughts: slushing, fuel separators ? does this mean we will have procedural tanks?)

    M : decouplers

    N : payload / cargo

    O : aerodynamics / wings

    P : wheels

    Q : heat related parts

    R : batteries and electrics

    S : communications: antennas, remote control ? maybe probe parts moved here?

    T : science parts

    U : utility / various .. not sure about that symbol

    V : toggle / hide parts menu / back ?

    W : delete / recycle bin to drop part

    ~ : project craft name

    ! : new craft

    @ : save craft

    # : open craft

    $ : check list .. or missions? (or engineers report, vessel stats)

    % : staging view - wow it's separate, where?

    ^ : colors / paint

    & : action groups ?

    + : fuel types and amount

    / : journey planner, delta-v budget? wow

    \ : undo previous version .. of what? go back in time? or alarm clock?

    = : toggle launch button? show / hide options?

    < : select launchpad (multiplayer option?)

    > : LAUNCH

    I see we also have toggles to show/hide part size categories, starting with extra small.

    Also we can select blueprint mode from the XYZ view?

    Where are: command & control, robotics, smart parts?

    Very interesting!

    Show and Tell - Procedural Radiators

    in Show and Tell

    Posted · Edited by Vl3d
    typo

    I appreciate everything the team is doing for the game and I can't wait to buy and play it. But, please allow me to say a few things.

    1. The procedural radiators look shiny, membranous and modern, but also very thin and flat - it's practically invisible when looking at it edge-on. I really liked the KSP1 radiators because of their angled, solid, mechanical look. I hope we get that design also.

    KSP2-procedural-radiators.jpg

    International_Space_Station_radiators_an

    2. The new procedural radiators look like solar panels because of their texture and design. Thus we think about having procedural solar panels. Do we need procedural solar panels?  Probably not. Do we feel like we would be missing out if we did not have them? Yes. Because the procedural radiators look like solar panels.

    3. Please, can we have a more consistent and predictable marketing and communication campaign? Some of us are panicking because we know so little about the game.

    Thank you if anyone on the team reads this. We get so little feedback. :(

    Crazy celestial body ideas

    in Prelaunch KSP2 Suggestions & Development Discussion

    Posted

    I believe in empowering the stock devs and mod devs with wild sources of inspiration so they can decide what should be in the game. Also all your feedback is very welcome and I agree with you that most ideas are unrealistic.

    What do you think about a planet with two perpendicular orbiting debris disks, at different altitudes? From some kind of angled impacts, one equatorial, one polar..

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