mcirish3

Well, that is what I get for not going beyond a BS in Astrophysics. Very informative, I assumed a numeric solution but indeed I thought it would be prohibitive due to the number of calculations and was really amazed that any sort of practical solution could be arrived at. This concept may be a bit advanced for KSP, I fear, at least beyond its use as a mod. BUT for KSP2 in about 10 years it should be perfect. By the way how will this work with the current game mechanics in regards to nodes and the complexities of transfers. Edit: By advanced, I mean beyond the scope of what Squad will be willing to implement.

SO I know Principia is WIP but has been any discussion on this in relation to RO? http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/68502-WIP-Principia-N-Body-Gravitation-and-Better-Integrators-for-Kerbal-Space-Program

Wow! I had no Idea this was in the works. So very cool! I really hope you are able to finish this at some point and release. Truly impressive, especially since based on what I am reading this will actually improve game performance. Tell me though, since there is no known solution for the 3 body problem how do you deal with three or more body interactions? (sorry if you already answered this, if you did just link the post, don't mean to make you chew your cabbage twice.)

Not sure if you want to wade into this but issue on your sticky but I made a tutorial for win64 users. I think it would go here: Mod-Related (Creating, Installing, Using, Modded Ship Designs) here is a link, if you like, feel free to share. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/99485-General-tutorial-for-removing-WIN64-KSP-Denial-of-access-code-from-mods

You are absolutely right, and at that point unless you can trace the codes logic back to see what it is doing you are SOL. It is not like there is much you can do if a mod maker really wants to keep their mod from running on Winx64 KSP. Luckily most mod makers just wanted to raise the entry bar. I personally think educating the community would be more effective at this point thus the Tutorial.

Remember when I said this^ Well I did this:http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/99485-General-tutorial-for-removing-WIN64-KSP-Denial-of-access-code-from-mods

So I was as good as my word and created a tutorial for this you can find it here.

Hi KSP WIN64 users. This is a general tutorial on how to remove the WIN64 block for your favorite mod. As mod makers may have various methods to prevent KSP WIN64 from running their mod I will try and make this a general as possible without leaving out any pertinent details. However, just as with many of life’s tasks there is always more than one way to do things. SO the method I show you here may not be the best, the fastest or most efficient. Also mod makers may use various methods to block KSP WIN 64 from running. I will here cover the most common method, and cannot immediately solve other variations, and I WILL NOT be giving particular information on how to unlock any particular mod unless I receive EXPRESS WRITTEN consent from that mod maker. IF any consent is given that consent will be posted in this thread either by the mod maker or myself prior to the submission of particular directions. What this thread is NOT: It is not a place to find someone to do the work for you. It is not a place to bash the mod makers or to complain about the WIN64 block. It is not a place to in anyway denigrate members of the KSP community. It is not a place to denigrate Squad, moderators, any other representative of Squad. It is not a place to debate whether users should be able to circumvent the WIN64 block. It is not a place to debate whether Squad should have released KSP WIN64. IT IS NOT A PLACE TO POST PARTICULAR DIRECTIONS FOR A MOD WITHOUT EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT OF THE MOD MAKER. What this thread IS: A place to learn how to remove, FOR YOUR OWN PERSONAL USE, the most common block used to prevent KSP WIN64 from running a mod. A place to seek general help in modifying and compiling source code. A place to increase your knowledge and better yourself. What I am NOT: I am not a programmer. I am not a coder. I am not your mother. I am not your enabler. What I am: I am trying to help you DO IT YOURSELF. I am willing to help if I can. I am a newb at this too. How NOT to get help from me, or any programmers, mod creators, or good Samaritans: Be rude. Be Vague. Be lazy. How to get help from me, or any programmers, mod creators, or good Samaritans: READ everything. Be polite. Be detailed. Demonstrate you have already tried to follow directions. Notice: Mod makers are not at this time taking any support questions in regards to WIN64 KSP. SO either post your questions here in this thread or on Senshi's thread found here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/98707-0-25-Win64-Enabled-NEAR-1-3-10-FAR-0-14-3-2-Real-Fuels-8-1-MFT-5-2-3 OK now that we have some ground rules let us begin. First off what do we need? 1. Patience and lots of it. Coding is challenging even for the experienced programmers that is why they get the big bucks. One small mistake and nothing works. My experience is the smaller the mistake the harder it is to find. So go slow and check and double check. 2. You are going to need Visual Studio Express 2013 for web. This is a rather large program (4GB) sorry about that. This is a free program from Microsoft. Follow the direction on web site to download and install. Skip the Azure installation! I am sure Visual Studio Express 2013 for Windows and Visual Studio Express 2013 for Windows Desktop would do the job as well I just happened to grab the first one I saw and it did the job for me so if you want the screenshot to match up use that one. You can grab the program here. 3. You will need a Hotmail account to sign in to Visual Studio 2013 for Web. Sorry, no way around it. The website will walk you through all of the setup. 4. You will need to download the source code for mode you want to remove the Win64 block from. Unzip the code into a folder. If you want to modify more than one mode perhaps a set up like the pic below will work for you. I am using widows7 x64 so if you have different windows things may not look the same. You can find a link to the source code on the thread of whichever mod you are trying to modify. Here is a link to a program for unzipping the files if you don’t already have one. Once you have gone through the initial setup your program should look like this: Next click FILE and select open project. Use the navigation pain to navigate to the location of where you unzipped the source code to. It should look something like this. You are looking for a (your_mod_name).sln or if there is no (your_mod_name).sln look for a (your_mod_name).csproj file like the one in the picture above. These can be located in a sub folder so you may have to look around a bit. Click on the file and then click open. Note: as best as I can tell .sln files can govern multiple .csproj files and usually give preference to the .sln file unless your experience informs you otherwise. At this point your screen should look something like this. ( it may not however, click the "debug" menu at the top of the screen to and select modname properties, and then select "Application" from the list on the right.) (Note: Needs a pic) On the right is a list of all the different modules that go into making up the mod. Each mod is going to look different. But the names should at least give you a clue as to what they do. In the pic above I circled the Target framework drop down menu. You will need to change this from .NET Framework 4.5 to .NET Framework 3.5. This is the structure KSP is built on. You will get a pop up like this: Click yes. Next we need to add couple references. To add them right click on the C# (Your_Mod’s_Name) at the top of the module list on the right. Select add. This will bring up a sub menu. Select references. This will bring up the following screen. Select the Browse button on the bottom and navigate to your KSP install folder. If you use steam this will probably be under C:\ program files. Otherwise it will be wherever you chose to install it to. Once there you will need to navigate to the following sub folder. C:\(KSP install folder)\KSP_win64\KSP_x64_Data\Managed WARNING FROM THIS POINT ON THINGS CAN VARY A LOT. I am sorry nothing can be done about this. It is just the way things are. Every mod maker does things his own way and there is really no way I can standardize that for you. The two most common files needed for reference are Assembly-CSharp.dll and UnityEngine.dll. But as you see in the pic below they are not the only ones that could be used but they should for the most part be in this folder: (C:\(your_KSP_install_folder)\ KSP_win64\KSP_x64_Data\Managed, Senshi/Mcirish3 will explain some other possibilities at the end of this tutorial. You will have to click the Browse button for each .dll reference you need to add or you can select multiple .dll files by holding the CTRL+ left click of each file you want to reference. And will look like this: After clicking add, make sure the check box for each .dll that you want to reference is checked like this: Click OK. Great! Now you are all set up and ready to find the code you want to modify. So the first thing we need to do is know what we are looking for and how to look for it. What you will first need to do is click on a module on the right hand window box. They look like this: The code we need to modify could be in any one of them or all of them or just some of them but the process is the same. We are looking for a reference to Win64 and most probably IsWin64() the easiest way to find these is to press CTRL+F this will bring up a search box that looks like the pick below in the top right for the main text box: Type in win64 like I did in the example and hit ENTER. This will highlight every place Win64 occurs in that module’s code. Now the code segment we are looking for is as follows: public static bool IsWin64() { return (IntPtr.Size == 8) && (Environment.OSVersion.Platform == PlatformID.Win32NT); } Well need to change this. The easiest way to do this is to delete (IntPtr.Size == 8) && (Environment.OSVersion.Platform == PlatformID.Win32NT) and replace it with the word false Your final code segment should look like this: public static bool IsWin64() { return false; } Now this may not be the only method used to block the mod from running on Win64 but as of now it is the only one I know. (I told you I am a newb at this). You will need to check through everyone of the .cs modules for this string to make sure you got them all. Congratulations you are nearly finished! Now to build your KSP WIN64 enabled mod. That is easy just press CTRL+SHIFT+B. If everything went as planned you will have an output that looks somewhat like this on the output tab. 1>------ Build started: Project: (your_mod’s_name), Configuration: Debug Any CPU ------ 1> NEAR -> C:\KSP project\Mod 1\(your_mod’s_name)\bin\Debug\(your_mod’s_name).dll ========== Build: 1 succeeded, 0 failed, 0 up-to-date, 0 skipped ========== If not you may have a list of errors, sometimes they may help you solve what went wrong yourself and sometimes you may need to post on this thread for help. (NEVER POST ON THE MODS THREAD ABOUT THIS). That is what THIS thread is for. Sometime the moder will have the full Gamedata folder as an output and sometimes only the (your_mod’s_name).dll will be made. If only the (your_mod’s_name).dll is made you will have to install the unmodified mod from the KSP form link and then over right the (your_mod’s_name).dll. In either case the location of your newly complied mod is listed in the last line of the output tab. like in the example above, the new (your_mod’s_name).dll would be found at: C:\KSP project\Mod 1\(your_mod’s_name)\bin\Debug\(your_mod’s_name).dll Final thoughts Senshi? Can you give an example Senshi? Final thoughts Senshi? Thanks Senshi for the comments, and good luck to all you new budding programmers .

Hi Senshi, any chance you would be ok with me using the above quote in a tutorial I am putting together on this? (I plan on cutting this up a bit)

Thank You Senshi, I am sure that I will be coming back to reread your post a few times considering all the new info in it.

Ah, ok perhaps I was thinking the need to change 3.5 was out dated is this still necessary? I got the mod I was testing this on to build by directly referencing the correct .dll files rather than setting up a separate project. ( sorry, if I sound like a newb at this, it is because I am). Edit: I also use 2013 express not 2012 as is stated in the wiki page.

Thank you trying again I do think those wiki pages need some updating, some old info in them.

Ah come on guys... why are you still debating whether what was done is illegal, both sides of the argument agree that it is. RoverDude is right, to say that is not really the issue. Further debate on the legality of what was done only serves to obfuscate the real issue and make everyone's temper flare.

I agree with the sentiment expressed by both you and RoverDude. (not to mention, I am huge fan of you mods). But then the question remains at the heart of this; Is what Senshi did a violation of this common courtesy? I of course argue no it is not. Since he attempted to be polite and continues to be polite, and even to draw some of the umplelsenatness away from main mega threads for the mods involved. Secondly the lock out by the mod makers is not exactly a purpose of the mod, but rather a denial of service, for a particular platform. Senshi is simply removing that denial of service in a way, that, to me at least, should keep the headache from coming back to the mod maker. If that works, I am not really sure why there should be an objection to that. Is his fork in competition to the original? Again, no, since the only people being served are those expressly excluded by the original. ( and most of them did nothing to deserve exclusion). I suggested an alternative, which obviously Senshi had provided before I suggested it, (again face palm), which I only support as an alternative because I hope that perhaps it will bring everyone's temperature down a couple notches, not because I think what Senshi did was in any way inappropriate.

Hmm yep, totally missed that. (face to palm) Doesn't really negate anything I have said but I will have to give it a try since I think I can follow those instructions. If I don't think it is hard( after trying) then there may be some hope that it will work as a solution. I think some refinement and some screen shots might add something to it if it was made into a sticky, and all that... I may even give it a go in a separate thread if I can find the time. ( I have four children under 5, they tend to make you feel like you have ADD and ADHD at all times

Wait what???? I thought I read his post carefully. If I missed that my bad... If it is new thanks for the info Ferram4.

This is exactly what I suspected the real situation concerning self removal of the winx64 KSP block was. I made my previous suggestion operating under the assumption that those who claimed that doing so was relatively trivial were not coming at the problem with an already advance understanding of coding and coding methods. Basically the way I see it, a tutorial may help some one like myself who though not experience coder I do understand the basics. This will still however lock out every one who has a good reason to run winx64 but have absolutely no programing skills. Now probably at least some of them belong to the crowd that was/is giving the mode makers so much trouble but my guess that there are even more who fall into the we get "don't bug the mod maker its not their fault" but don't have the time, inclination or even the remotest understanding of coding to even attempt a removal of the block. Thank you Senshi for the clarification. This doesn't mean however that I think we should not give it the old college try, it probably won't work but hey can't knock it till you've tried it, right!? and I would love to be proven wrong on this. I would also like to say something about the use of winx64 KSP. Not every user of 64bit KSP is doing so because they want to run 5000 mods on their super duper fast PC. Some of us just want to run 3 or 4 mods on our 8 year old AMD (if you really need to, look up the AMD-INTEL 64bit vs. 32bit war from that time frame) that happens to perform a lot better with x64. We just want to play the game the way it was meant to be played i.e. with the graphics all the way up, on a 300-600 part ship. By the way, Yes the game glitches and crashes 1 out of 10 times I play but it is worth it for the performance boost. So being without that one mod we usually play with (NEAR in my case) means a lot to the playability of the game, especially coupled with atmospheric trajectories which only work correctly with NEAR or FAR.

Well, I guess i came too late to this discussion for any reasonability to be had, that is what I get for staying off the comment pages for 2 months. It is quite clear that RoverDude is right and no ones views are going to be changed, the issue is far larger than any amount of discussion will solve without the intervention of Squad. For the sake of the community I would suggest that perhaps their is a 3rd solution to this. I have been told repeatedly now that it is not hard to edit and compile the source code for these mods for your own personal use. Now I don't know if this is true because frankly I would not know how to begin. But if it is not hard to do, as so many have claimed and the software to do it is free ( I am guessing there is some truly open source code out there for that) If some knowledgeable programer wrote a handy dandy thread explaining the process in easy to follow steps and squad was kind enough to give it a sticky on the add ons page, I see no reason why Senshi would need to continue his thread. I see no reason why the modders should object since now no one is distributing their mod and ignorance at least to some degree is expelled from the community. Of Course this assumes that all those people saying it is easy to do, didn't mean it is easy to do for a computer programer, as opposed to the average joe who is willing to learn. I think Senshi is only trying to help a disenfranchised group, created by many factors, and truly no one is blameless in this. Not Unity, Not Squad, Not the Mod Makers and especially Not the community. But if a better choice can be found that causes less division in the community lets go with that.

Let us take your analogy a bit further. Let us suppose it was a group of people who were damaging your house. Also let us suppose there was another group who were behaving well but happened to be dressed similarly to those damaging your house. You were unable to distinguish between the two groups due to their similar appearance. You therefore refused to allow both groups to have any beer. A friend realized that there was a group who due to unfortunate circumstances of dress, were being refused beer, although they had done nothing wrong. He then attempted to make them feel welcome by giving them beer without your approval knowing that the initial invitation stated that all would be welcome. He agreed with your right to refuse beer to those that had damaged you, but also wished to amend the injustice of those wrongly associated with the miscreants, and to try and do so in a ways that would cause the least possible disruption to the party by telling those he is helping to stay away from your house. Sure they could run home and change cloths (switch to win32 KSP) but that would mean they would lose out on some of the party. This friend also understood that there was a chance that he would serve by accident some of the miscreants and therefore warned the group to be on their best behavior or else he too would remove access to the beer. This friend also understood however that it is better to let a ruffian go free than to punish the innocent. (founding concept of the US legal system) Would you truly wish to refuse beer to this group, and would you truely be mad at your friend?

I suggested that the moderator remove them not because they violated a form rule per se but because the vagueness of your comment can lead others to jump to conclusions which made your comment rather trollish and violates the spirit of the form rules rather than the letter. If you want people to do what is right rather than what is legal then please consider that when making a comment. Remember talk is cheep leading by example in what you say would be better. You have partially explained yourself which is better. However you still express a certain disdain for a rather vague group. Who do you consider impolite? Only those who you disagree with? A large set? a Smaller set? We all appreciate what you and the other mod makers do, as I have express more than once, and most reasonable people know that you do not owe us anything since you and the other mod makers make for love of the game. But there is a certain fair treatment which we all would at least hope a mod maker would exhibit when dealing with issues even if you are not obliged to do so. Again, leading by example and doing what is right is better that what is required.

Hmm...what do you mean? Do you mean to say you wont provide support for anyone who said something you disagree with in the thread? Do you mean to say that if any one admits that they have at one time used x64 KSP you will refuse to provide support even if they have an issue with win32 KSP? What exactly is the point of these comments? Are you trying to derail a reasonable discussion and turn it into a inflammatory "bash the mod makers" discussion? Or do you indeed buy into the false dichotomy I spoke of earlier? I am not sure what these comments contribute to the discussion and would ask the moderator to remove them.

I agree, (least reading my comment you think I don't) with all you just said except the actual necessity part, but there is a very large hurdle to overcome, as you rightly pointed out, without Senshi's help. One thing that has frustrated many is the assumption if you don't know how to compile the source code you must be one of those who will come running and complaining to the mode makers to fix the problem. This is a false dichotomy, that states if you are not one then you are the other. It leave no room for a middle ground which in this case is where most people actually fall. They know that they should not ask the mod maker for help and don't blame them for not helping but also do not have the experience and skills to edit and compile the source code. Senshi realized this and stepped in to help out. I am not sure why this is so hard to understand, or is it that many vocal members of the community have bought into this false dichotomy, including some of the mod makers.

You just pulled out my one comment that used the common literary device known as Hyperbole. Here educate yourself. If you read my comment you would see I fully understand what the mod makers experienced, and that I also understand that policy they put in place was necessary but also harmed community members not responsible for the mess and did not contribute to it. Senchi was and is trying to solve the problem in a way that will be equitable for all involved. Perhaps it won't work. In which case I will probably try and find a tutorial on how to mod the code myself. But for those of us who are not experience with coding, or have lives outside of gaming is was a godsend and we are very grateful to Senshi for his assistance.