PDCWolf

Do we get a thread for the stuff on the sidebar or do we discuss it here?

I'd say even if you removed every single bug from current KSP2 and make it go 400fps on 4k on the recommended hardware, it's still not worth it, and I don't mean that as in price, but just as a sequel in general. Ignoring everything right now, it's pretty much a graphics remaster, it has nothing to stand on by itself yet.

But... we've known they can't estimate anything for checks notes at least 3 years. We also don't have comms since they skipped last week and the one prior save for the bug status. I agree with the take I've seen fellow forum users post, saying that Science is gonna be pretty dawning in that it'll define their vision, and the level of quality for roadmap features that they intend. If anything, guess that's just how far ya'll have to put up with me... and maybe some others. [snip]

That it's been 6 months and we're still in ifs, maybes, no promises-s, we'll look-s, and we plan-s from the same people that made that list of at the very least, misleading statements up above. I guess whoever is looking might now realize why the arguments look so circular and repetitive. The only "argument" is pointing back to whatever the devs said, yet it's the same devs that haven't been able to hold a word for 3+ years and refuse to make any compromise unless it's 2 weeks in the future.

Ain't that the case for the whole game... also you might've realized by now that confidence in their communication vary wildly from person to person, and by my previous post I dare to say such a variation is well justified.

Now that is bad faith. The answer to that letter is laughable. "We have a foundation to build our internal mod tools, no you can't have them, or see them, and we can't also tell you our plans" and then Dakota goes on for the performance scapegoat when all the performance optimizations have been reducing the quality of the game and removing objects from screen. If anything, the fact that the details from that reply haven't changed in 5 months is worrying.

They never said this, so it's a personal assumption at best. Bug Status 8/11 did not show up, they slowed communications and were missing last week too, plus insulting Reddit... Comms improved and then got bad again. Release being bad is something universally known, the reasons and owning it up is still pending.

From youtube creators, pre-release event, and so on: https://youtu.be/wbZ6M9Whyc4 "Will enter Early Access in a pretty high quality state, completely playable" "How complete will the game be at launch?" "Nate assured me the game on launch won't be in pre-alpha, alpha, or beta, it'll just be released... with some caveats" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XFxyeciMQU "There should be updates on the weeks not months timescales" "We're gonna keep our communication very open so people know what is on the build". https://youtu.be/Jw42iC-mlZM "We fully expect people like you to find the outer [part] limit and we're not putting a hard constraint on the part count. [...] Hopefully that's a much(x3) higher part count than you would've experience in 1" From their stuff on the forums, from pre and post release: https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/212081-kerbal-space-program-2-pre-release-notes/ "Re-entry heating and thermal systems are offline - you'll have a brief window here at the beginning of Early Access during which you can re-enter any atmosphere without a heat shield." (Emphasis mine) https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/216273-patch-two-on-approach/ "We've also begun some investigations into improving the current wobbly rocket situation, and we should have more to discuss on that subject soon." (Emphasis mine, this was April 7th) https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/214806-developer-insights-18-graphics-of-early-access-ksp2/ "In the medium term, my first major project on this team is to design and build a next-generation terrain system" (Some freedom taken to point out "medium term" shouldn't mean more than a year). https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/topic/208209-release-date-update-from-the-ksp2-team/ Literally everything said on the video, which was months before they downgraded to Early Access. I'm sure there's more, but I have time constraints, and googling ability constraints right now as I don't keep their every word in memory. There's also the fact we can always loop back to the release dates for a full product as the quintessential promises they broke. We could also reduce our mental age and said they never mentioned the word "promise" and thus nothing was promised, and there's no point in us being here since KSP2 is not promised to exist or be a product or reach this or that stage in development.

Funnily enough, if you remember, they did hire the mod developers to bring their creations into the game. The only thing you could say they took without doing that is the kerbal inventory.

The biggest city builders do simulate life and death. Cities Skylines, Simcity (even the societies spinoff, though not sure about 5), LiF, Banished, and of course base builders as well. Even transport tycoon games simulate populations shrinking by death and exile.

Just a small correction, autostrut does not add literal invisible struts between parts. It alters the tree structure to include multiple new joints between those parts.

Oh no, a community that was insulted by the CM after having its complaints unanswered for 6+ months is now against the game, unimaginable.

[snip] I'm saying you're free to have your opinion on whether it is justifiable to say what was said. What was said can be no other than what was said. You're still only talking about the very first sentence of the message and not the rest. The message is right there for you to read. If you think people having similar opinions all opposite from yours is "bad faith", then yeah, your time at the forums is not gonna be enjoyable, productive or even fruitful. I'll blame a lot of "feeling the same" to the constant moving of topics or messages to one or another thread. This bit for example was being discussed on a completely different thread but ended up here.

Yeah, a subreddit with 1.5 million followers has a single guy with a "3 to 10" strong "bot farm" not to downvote him but for "vote manipulation", also used to upvote negative comments. He then goes on to call reddit an echo chamber, and that his time spent on that community was, because of this, "futile", which is something after saying that the place is an echo chamber and the feedback is "super positive". He said something dumb, and then he insulted Reddit. Of course, he was promptly proven wrong by what's most of the people still active on that place. https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/15mzyvq/dakota_im_like_95_sure_someone_has_setup_a_few/?sort=top

I'm not a paid professional in a position that's supposed to act as the bridge between community and dev team. It is not my job to be professional or even civil towards people. By the rules of the forum alone (following my example of using them as a yardstick), Dakota's post would qualify as combative, inflammatory, and containing insulting language. Whether you justify, endorse, agree or enjoy the message at a personal level has nothing to do with the content, and said content is clearly insulting.

You admit neither us know, but you want me to accept your assumptions... And I believe none of those messages were aimed at you, they are posted on official statement threads or feedback threads, right where they belong. The moment you mention your views on development times, someone else will mention theirs [Snip] [Snip]

From what I see in your post, there's a big number of assumptions in favor of the dev team and its work that are no more than just that: assumptions. The level of complexity of KSP2, and your assessment of this seems highly subjective. Again, there's an epidemic of grossly overstating the complexity of rigidbody physics which if they were such, they wouldn't proliferate that hard on almost every indie engineering title. The complexity of the scaled-space planetarium method and integrating patched conics is also grossly overstated, as they're absolutely the easiest solutions to the problems presented by the concept of the game. Somehow KSP2 being almost the same game as KSP1 isn't measured by the same stick as Starfield being built up on its predecessors, even though so far those games have presented the bigger evolutions. Somehow for you, KSP2 had a bigger effort and evolution, whilst actually being so far a discernible devolution of its predecessor save for the assumption that they had to rebuild everything. This assumption is also proven wrong when you see stuff like the PQS topic, where they straight up lifted systems from the previous game. The original studio is no more and was replaced, obviously, but they did announce a full product for 2020. The studio that replaced them also announced full products for 2021, 2022, 2023, and then 5 months before release switched to EA. This cannot be ignored at any stage and will remain a glaring issue until clarified. It is also obvious for anyone that such a full product might have never existed, but even then we'd need explanations of why they chose lie to our faces 4 times. "le greed xd" is not an explanation, much less when coming from a user. COVID lockdowns went on from late 2020 to early 2021. The lie that a full product was coming lasted from early 2019 to late 2023. The videos explaining the disruption and such still promised a full product, and mentioned that progress was allowed to go on during those times, so the official statement is that they did manage to work on the game. Fixing the game is not solving this problem. The state of the game is, for me, a completely disjointed issue from their frustrating and outright false -in some cases- PR statements, and how they both fail to acknowledge reality and continue trying to rope us in with lukewarm statements trying too hard at happy-go-lucky. Lastly, I think a lot of people who share your view forget one thing: Progress has been made. And no, I don't mean the game, I mean getting the upNates to be serious, getting the company to do a small statement about it, getting a public bugtracker, a bi-weekly bug update, and so on, and in those aspects, every bit of progress has ended discussion on those points. People stopped complaining about how dev blogs and updates were given, and how little they talked about bugs, yet you fail to recognize that. In the end, the "20 times a month" debate keeps coming up because it's what no progress, or negligible little progress, has been made on. It's also a matter of perspective, as obviously there's a lot of people who see it as water under the bridge, but you have to accept that even more people, based on reddit, reviews, twitter and so, do not see it as water under the bridge.

I'm still waiting for this to be officially echoed at the forums, and what I believe is an apology owed to the Reddit community. -1 point for blaming the fans. It is you who sets expectations, specially with that price, and it is you still who failed to manage said expectations. It is a good first step in starting to own up to the state of the game and communicating that you know and accept it is not what it should be. Good on setting dates. Creating plans for the future and then following through with them on what you promised is the first step towards adulthood. Yes, that's snarky but I really found no other way to express my feelings on that particular issue.

Knowing in silence is still not owning up to it, it's not explaining why, and it's also not explaining how you expect for the next years to not go the same way. Until that happens, it'll never be "water under the bridge", it's more like water flooding my village and keeping my house under water, the damage is done, they need to face the reality that damage is done, repair it, and then maybe we can talk about how velocity is good and bugs are getting fixed and development is gonna go faster and faster. There's no way I'd believe statements like those whilst the biggest elephant in the room is still there. Heck, it's probably why almost nobody outside the forum believes those statements. If I called you the things Dakota called the reddit community, I'd be out the forums for at least 15 days for insulting language. That's the minimum you get when you insult your community that way.

it seems you accidentally or willfully ignored what's pretty much the first acknowledgement of the state of the game that IG has posted (even if they're blaming fans for it). You also missed the fact that you're not in a position to tell me or anyone what we can or can't post about, the only ones who can say otherwise are the moderation team. Even if we could imagine we've "been heard", until stuff starts to happen that clearly demonstrates we've been heard and those complaints are answered, affirmatively or not, then we're in our entire right to keep asking and assume we actually haven't been heard.

I agree, and said somewhere else, that blaming "fan expectations" is underhanded when it's them setting those expectations and later on failing to manage them. Other than that, they finally grew a pair to give a date and say (in another place) that we should not expect new parts on 1.4 (managing expectations). There's still a lot to solve and improve, but this is a baby step in broadly the right direction.

Not only was that already clarified previously, it's already started to happen:

Love it. As the new owner of an AMD GPU, finding out exactly my series of cards is one of the problem ones was disheartening, glad to know it's being fixed. It's also very good to see that the public bug tracking does have more positives than originally intended, though it seems obvious now (hindsight is 20/20) that by publicly displaying good quality reports, people would actually learn how to do better and better reports.

Then announcing a full release for 2020 makes no sense. It makes much more sense to assume they started the hiring process before the buyout, considering Star Theory already had almost 10 years of "experience" under their belt by the time they got the title. There's also the size of the project, where right now they haven't surpassed the work of a single person in his spare time after work.

Except that's factually wrong.