Ziv

Hm, I think using Kethane would make it too easy. I love the Kethane mod but it's for an other style of gameplay. This challenge is about a traditional deep-space expedition-style mission. But if countless refueling missions are allowed then it's like letting the usage of Kethane... maybe I should open new categories? What do you think guys?

Bothersome, which MechJeb do you use exactly?

Okay, I was looking for the solution for the missing Kethane hexagonal layout. I have KSP 0.23 without any mods. 1, I installed Kethane 0.8.2 and it worked fine. 2, installed KAS 0.4.5 and they worked fine. 3, installed SCANSat and all the three worked fine. 4. installed MechJeb2-2.1.0.0 and the Kethane layout is gone! ... downloaded the #144 built for the MechJeb and Kethane works with that well! 5. installed KerbalAlarmClock 2.6.2 and it works fine. 6. installed Chatterer 0.5 and it works fine. 7. installed the Romfarer LazorDockingCam v31 and the Kethane layout is gone! So I removed this mod... 8. installed 2013_10_NovaPunch2_03a and it works fine. 9. installed 2013_10_Protractor-v-2.4.31 and it works fire.

Hehe, that's not good! Hm, I'm not sure how to decide because only refueling supply missions are allowed but that sucks if I say: no, sorry, you can't, you should start to redesign your mission from zero and start again... if you can manage that with a low-weight and simple, one launch solution from Kerbin then it may be accepted (but I will add this rescue mission to the informations about your mission)... By the way I checked your videos but they are too long to watch them normally and it was hard to find the crucial points in the long streams. Maybe you should do a "general public's cut".

First, please read the challenge again (?)... going to other bodies may be a bonus but not necessary. Second, please re-read what you write and correct it before sending anything to the forum.

Thank you! Hm, the planning was about 3 hours, and maybe 6 hours for the whole mission... I made it in 4 days.

chlue: Congratulations, you successfully done the hardest thing in KSP: leaving Eve surface! Also congratulation for the pinpoint landing! And I'm impressed with the complex refueling solution at the Base, too! I know this is a very hard mission but I love to give (myself) hard stuff and be happy when I finally can do it! Thank you for participating and I hope you enjoyed it - at least a little! (By the way I have to tell you that there are much more easier and more simple solutions too for this mission. ) Oh, and I hope you wiped out Jebediah's smile with the bill for the Rescue Mission!

I visited all the Mun's Biomes in one mission and brought back the data to Kerbin for a Science Points record. I collected 10039.6 Science Points. Here are the details: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/62192-Collecting-scince-from-ALL-the-Mun-s-biome-in-one-big-mission-and-return-to-Kerbin!?p=848439&viewfull=1#post848439

I have made a big mission: I went to all the Mun's 15 Biome in one mission, I collected all kind of Science data from all of them and Returned to Kerbin with them. So there was no radio transmitting. I collected 10039.6 Science Points! I used this Science Pack for every Biome: - Mystery Goo - Material Lab SC-9001 - 2HOT Thermometer - GRAVMAX (4x) - Seismic Accelerometer (4x) I used four GravMax and Seismic to make more points. I used one GravMax for High Above, one GravMax and two Seismic at "Just Above" the surface, everything else just on the surface. There was 16 of this pack, sorted in four Science Module. I wanted to make the mission with four landings and filling the four Packs at four different Biome. There is "only" 15 Biomes so I had one Pack remaining for "High Above" science. In the itinerary I wanted to "jump" from one X to another, but I was not able to make the Green and Red X-X-X-X in one so I had to go back to the ship for fuel: So I had multiple landings, and a lot of rearranging the ship. I also had to write on a paper what was done and what science was used because there was about 16x11 readings plus 15x3 (LowSpace/Surface EVA + Surface Sample). About 221 data at the end. This is how the main ship looked like: The lander was like this (note the changeable Science Module part!) I made some mistake for the main ship that it didn't have RCS or SAS so I had to send a supply ship with RCS/SAS parts and which also refueled it. And here's a picture about the science points, 10039.6... It may have been more with more science parts but it was already close to lagging. And all the pictures are here:

Mesklin: Wow, beautiful minimalistic solution and great mission planning, congratulations! I love these minimalistic ships. - How many dV does the lander have? (I guess at least ~2400+600 because of ascent and redocking from Tylo). - And with the Tylo module on? - I see you used a little RCS Space Tug for docking... when I was on my mission with Jeb only then I was able to dock without RCS because that little ship was agile enough, or I put them in lines and pushed the main ship a littlebit forward (left/right) with RCS and that was enough. Very little RCS fuel is needed this way (if any). Hm, but a Space Tug is a must for the lander reconfiguration, that's true... -Your Tylo orbit with 8700m was low enough I guess. And I liked your lander solution for Laythe too. What did you do with those two fuel under the parachutes? Deorbiting only? Congratulation, you are in the Hall of Fame, Again!

Sure, you do the landings as you want. Only rule is that your mission from Kerbin has to go to Jool as one ship with all the stuff (crew, landers, fuel, etc). Then it's up to you if you have one lander, some lander parts and you put together the ideal lander for each moon, or five different lander. And one advice: optimize (lower) your part count as much as you can because no lag makes it more fun!

Speeding Mullet: nice, welcome aboard! I'm happy to see somebody who wants to go on the aesthetic/ki-fi side! This way you might need some more fuel but will be fun to watch definitely! SSSPutnik: sounds good, good luck! I never used hyperedit, only deltaV stats... and before my first mission I have never been and never zoomed to any moons, and this way it was more thrill to get there and see them live for the first time!

There is a great challenge what I attempted: Kethane Laythe Rescue Challenge.... This is about a mission to Laythe where Jeb, Bill and Bob get stranded. There are Kethane under them and their empty ship has a fuel connection plug so it can be refueled. I have sent an automatic Kethane mining rover... and the guys went so stupid there what I had to share! Sample picture: (click on the picture or here to go to the imgur album for the full story... don't forget to read the conversations too!)

Cool, thank you! I enjoyed the stupidity of the guys so much that I didn't mind that the miner was broken... I guess it turned out so well that I will put this into a Mission Report post too, which will promote this challenge too. And I manage the JOOL-5 Challenge, maybe I will mention this challenge there too, this would be a great practice for those who are still planning the mission. I hope you are okay with that.

I have sorted out and uploaded the images and wrote description under them. I had this ship on the launchpad. 82.03 tons, the Lander/Rover/Miner is 3.06 tons. I used NovaPunch rocket parts because I'm bored with the stock parts and this mod is well balanced to the stock: First Stage Main Engine: 4X-800 Liquid Fuel Engine Power: 1850 Isp: 275/320 Mass: 6.5 tons Main Fuel tank: HH 250-C (almost as big as an orange tank, little bit shorter) Liquid Fuel: 2304 Oxidizer: 2816 Mass: 3.2 tons (Empty) / 28.8 tons (Full) Second Stage Engine: SLS-250 Bearcat Power: 1400 Isp: 290/335 Mass: 5.25 Second Stage fuel tank (two parts): HH-250B fuel tank + HH series interstage adapter (with some fuel inside) Liquid Fuel:1152 + 288 = 1440 Oxidizer: 1408 + 352 = 1760 Mass (Full): 14.4 + 3.8 = 18.2 (same fuel as Rockomax X200-32 but 0.2 tons heavier) All the others are stock/Kethane parts... The landing was close to the sea but was on the land finally. Two little Ant Engines slowed it a little more, just for sure. They Kerbals went crazy with the lander... check the full story here (read the conversations too!): http://imgur.com/a/ov8PA#0

Lions: do you want just one launch from Kerbin but docking a lot at Jool is okay, or do you want to avoid docking at all? If the second then you will need a ship with about 4500+26000 m/s altogether... and you should start with Laythe/Tylo and dropping the heavy empty fuel tanks after these landing, and continue to Vall, Bop and Pol with the already smaller lander. At the end you should have something similar as my one-Kerbal mission Mk1 can with fuel+engines on it's side (it had 2960 m/s!) to go back to Kerbin... Maybe the best to start with Laythe because you can aerobrake/parachute down and you just have to go back to orbit (~3000m/s) while at Tylo you need 6000+ m/s for the landing from a very low orbit too. But this doesn't really make sense in terms of space travel... If you have a given amount of fuel/weight for Tylo landing then why do you want to put that weight down to Laythe and back again? That needs a lot of additional fuel/weight to do that, so your ship becomes bigger. And the same apply to all the landing except the last one... so your ship would be HUGE, even if you would use a command seat only! This is why I designed my first ship already in three steps: 1. Mothership with a lot of fuel: this needs to be moved to Jool only, and once putting from a Laythe/Vall orbit to a very elliptic Tylo+ orbit... and that's all. No more moving of the huge amount of weight! All the fuel in the big orange tanks can be used for the landings and refueling so this is like a refueling space station. 2. Moon-orbit Module for bringing the lander from the Mothership to orbit around the moons. Why should I bring all the fuel+tanks to the surface and back to orbit what is needed to get to a moon's orbit from the mothership and back? And it can use nukes for better fuel savings. 3. One universal lander with Jets for the first landing (Laythe) what were dropped after ascend. I also used an other lander body for Tylo where the universal lander would not be enough (but the mk1 can was the same from the universal lander). 4. After all the landings the crew and the science modules have to go back to Kerbin... but the big orange tanks were almost empty and I didn't need the lander neither so why should I bring them back? I left them around Jool and brought back the Crew and the science modules with the Moon-orbit Module... So, this was a sample of fuel/weight optimization which made the mission possible. And after this and my second mission I see some more opportunity to make this kind of mission plan more effective... Or you can use something similar what Vaebn did with one really universal lander what was the main engine too. This is a really simple and elegant design with a lander and the huge amount of fuel, and that's all! But he used multiple launches and docking too... It's up to you if you want to go with one giant ship and try landing everywhere without mothership/docking or making it in the optimized way... by the way you made me curious if it is possible with one ship only? This way the planning would be in the opposite way: what little ship do I need to get back from Pol? And what do I have to add for landing at Bop and Vall? And what do I have to add to land and get back from Tylo (that would be huge!)? And how can I put this huge ship down to Laythe and lift back... it will be already a huge ship here. How can you bring that to Jool and finally, how can you launch from Kerbin? I think it's possible (with a command seat used only) and this sounds like an engineering challenge....! Hm, maybe I'm interested in this "sub-challenge"....!

What did he do? Hey guys, please link these things to let everybody check what the question is about!

HEY! I have also wanted to steal my MechJeb from my lander but it didn't give me the inventory for "Grab". So I had to come back without it. Okay, now I really should sort and upload my pictures!

Lions: Check the successful contender's pictures and mission logs on the first page here. There are informations about how many launches they used, did they refuel during the trip, what mods were used, etc... you can build your ship in orbit, send refuel missions and use MechJeb (I used MechJeb too but mostly for informations or sometimes maneuver planning, that's all). I have done this mission twice, first with multiple launches and put the ship together in LKO, and refueled twice during the trip (once when arriving to Jool, and once before Tylo). I was optimizing the mission and the plans for days while building and before going so it wasn't as big as some other participant's ship here but was too big to go without refueling. And I almost didn't make it back from Laythe (I had to use the Moon-orbit Module to catch it in suborbital trajectory) Here are the pictures for the whole trip: http://imgur.com/a/ZCaAu#0 Making a spaceship better is not just about adding more fuel, it's about making it smaller, more simple and most importantly: lighter too. On my second mission I used only one launch and no refueling... but I used an ultralight lander with a command seat only and with 4600+ m/s deltaV which used a very little amount of fuel! So the main ship stayed in orbit between Vall and Tylo and the little lander was more than capable to go to the moons, land and come back for a refuel... (for Laythe and Tylo I used additional specific modules attached to the Lander) and on the way back I was able to land on Dres, Duna, Ike and the Mun too! Without refueling! I didn't cheat, check the pictures : http://imgur.com/a/1EWoP#0 That's why it's cool to go small. I can share the .craft file if somebody wants it but I think one half of the fun is to design your mission and ship before you go. I also left fuel, deltaV and Vessel stats on the screens for all the time so everybody can see the progress and what are the deltaV cost of the different maneuvers.

Kerolyov: What would be the changes in 0.23? If there's no new moon or something similar then maybe it can be okay too... I want to keep this challenge.

Jebediah's big journey continues! Jebediah: Look guys! I could go to Duna too, on the way home! It would be a really high-speed collision course, but with a low enough aerobrake... KSC: NO WAY JEB! It would be too dangerous, you could be burnt up or sling away from the Solar System! Going to Duna is prohibited! Jebediah: look guys, I was calculating and it turned out that it is possible. I have to make the aerobrake at 6000m.... KSC: What? NO! COME HOME NOW! Jebediah: wait... I'm already on my way into the atmosphere! YEEEHAAAAHHH! Look, I'm on 2690m above the surface going at 2614 m/s! And MORE THAN 15G FORCE! AHH MY EYES!!! (Bob in the background: This guy is more than crazy....) ...After the very hard aerobraking Jeb went into a highly elliptic orbit, detached with the lander, went into the atmosphere and let it brake him a while, and put down the ultralight lander with ease. Jebediah: I love this beautiful desolation.... Jebediah: Okay, I'm back in orbit again around Duna. Hey guys, look, I still have 2172 m/s left! Hmm... what if I try a landing on Ike too? KSC: no comment... Jebediah: Yep, and here we are! Hello Ike! ...aand touchdown! Jebediah faces the same problem as on Pol after Bop landing without going back to the Mk1 can: he cannot plant a flag, neither get a sample or do a new EVA report... Okay, time to go back to the ship... Leaving Ike orbit to match the ship's orbit as much as possible The fuel tanks of the main ship engines and the lander too are almost empty. So rearranging the ship... Jebediah: Hey, look guys what my lead engineer Ziv designed for me! My Mk1 has it's own engines and it has 2960 m/s on its own! More than enough to get back home! I'm coming! Jebediah: Byebye main ship and lander... you were awesome! Laythe, Vall, Tylo, Bop, Pol, Dres, Duna, Ike... unbelievable! Take care, stay in orbit, and one day I will come back for you! Jebediah: Hey guys! After the aerobraking at Kerbin I found out that if I stay in this high elliptic orbit the Mun will come and catch me! So I can land there too. Okay, this mk1 can doesn't have landing gears... but who needs them anyway!?! Jebediah: This is just beautiful. And I still have 940 m/s to go back. That's a pity that's not more because that way I could go for a Minmus landing... but anyway, let's go home. I hope it will be enough... ALERT!!! Going to Kerbin would cost at least 348 m/s but the ship has only 292 left! Now what!?!? Jeb was very excited and was thinking about the solution a lot... which is: multiple gravity assist with the Mun! Look at the progress at these pictures: http://imgur.com/a/1EWoP#117 ...and at last he managed to return safely. A true hero after landing on 9 worlds, in one launch and without refueling: 1. Laythe, 2. Vall, 3. Tylo, 4. Bop, 5. Pol, 6. Dres, 7. Duna, 8. Ike, 9. Mun! There are 14 bodies in the system. It was almost a Grand Tour! Maybe this ship design needs only a small modification to make all the 14 in one go. Hmmm.... The full story: http://imgur.com/a/1EWoP#0

Mesklin: Yeah, awesome attempt, I guess you are the record holder! Lions: What do you mean?

Mesklin: OMG, 12330 Science points???? I never saw more than 9609 points by dawg (actually he didn't post a picture about it) or my 8684 points, so I guess you are the new record holder! (at that time I was checking the forum and the net but didn't find more than 8684)... So I suggest you to link your mission's pictures to those forum topics! And by the way I congratulate you for finishing the mission, with an additional Duna/Ike landing! I knew you had something in your mind with that refueling! In my second mission Jebediah did the same while going home (but without refueling, but given that very little lander that's not so special). I still have to arrange/upload the pictures for the last part.... so the best is still coming, you will see! Hm, for the refuel ship, I like the Jet engines for the first stage... I already knew that's a good idea but I haven't tried it yet! Please tell me which mods did you use? (for the additional information into the hall of fame)

Hm, hard question, because this challenge is about sending ONE mission to Jool and back (because of funding cuts). So this is about somehow optimizing this mission into one big journey. If you send five separate missions to each moon and back then it's not one mission, even if it's done in the same time. Or, for example, if you would launch one big ship with crew and landers but the Tylo lander will be sent later then it's not really one mission, that would be easier and so it wouldn't be correct against the other contenders if I would accept that. So I should say you have to go to Jool as one ship and come back as one (you can drop the landers and unused stuff before returning, of course). But on the other hand I created this challenge to encourage people to do this huge mission and to think about the best solutions (for different levels or with science), plan great ships and see how many ways there are, what are good and what are bad... and, at first, to have fun! So if you want to go this way then do it and I can put your name and infos at the Mixed Solution category. Or... put those ships into one!

Jebediah's JOOL-5 mission continues after the Tylo landing... getting to Bop was easy with this little and ultralight lander: Jeb has decided to skip the redocking to the main ship and went straight to Pol... it takes just 105 m/s: Still 2815 m/s for landing and getting back... it will be too easy! Wohoo, you have to look out on this little moon too! Jeb almost hit a huge rock. Little problem: after landing on Bop with a commander seat and not getting back and putting down the Samples and EVA reports in the Mk1 can, Jebediah's pockets are full so he can't get any more from Pol too... and he doesn't even get a flag to plant! He was a little bit disappointed, but he really enjoyed the view and this special little moon. Jeb started to sneeze more often, so he decided to leave. He has still more than enough fuel to get back home, so he gladly smiles into the darkness of space. Now it's sure that he has done the JOOL-5 mission! The last docking back to the main ship. The lander still has 1545 m/s, and the main fuel tanks has some fuel too. More than enough! Let's go home! Jebediah: hey guys, look what I have found after leaving Jool: it's just 80 m/s to rendezvous with Dres! Hm, I have to visit my old friend on the way home... KSC: No way Jeb, come home! You may have enough fuel but we can't stand the risk to run out of it... Jebediah: Don't worry, I'll check the fuel level every time! KSC: Ahh... Jebediah: Oh yeah, here it is... this little dark, lonely dwarf. I'm going to let my main ship pass Dres while I land there. This way I don't have to put its weight into orbit and back, so saving a lot of fuel. I will catch up with it after the landing! KSC: DON'T DO THAT! Your main ship will go far and you will need to sit in your lander for a while to catch it up! Jebediah: No problem, I will enjoy the stars while getting back! But now, Prepare for the landing! Jebediah: And here I am. At the side of a big crater, on Dres. After landing on all the Jool's moon... I have to say, I love my job! the full story: http://imgur.com/a/1EWoP#0