Ziv

Nice job, yeah, the LLL mod make it look pretty different and cool. Looks like a clever design but I'm sure you won't be able to land on Tylo because all of these steps needs deltaV's: 1. Ascending from an other moon fully loaded (probably Pol/Bop, it's about 200-300m/s) 2. changing the orbit to a Tylo-catch (100 m/s ?) 3. Going on low orbit around Tylo (~1000 m/s) 4. Landing on Tylo (~3500 m/s) so it would need at least ~4900 m/s. Other solution if you bring a little refueling ship which refuels the main ship until it's low Tylo orbit but this time you will need the refueling ship at least has this 4900 m/s plus for going back too (1000 m/s leaving Tylo orbit, then orbit change and landing back to the Kethane source too), AND for bringing the weight of the refueling fuel because if you used them too until you arrive then it's not refueling just visiting... or if you run out of fuel and cannot go back to the Kethane source... and you would need a lot of this small missions until your main ship is fully loaded so I don't recommend this. Hint: you don't have to land your main ship on every moon. Only landing is needed on every moon, not refueling.

Hi, pretty nice looking ship! But for Jebediah's Level you need to bring five Kerbals for the mission required by this rule: - "There's not enough time left for training one crew for all the moon landings, so (at least) five Kerbonauts are needed for the mission and each are trained to land on one moon. There can be more Kerbals as passengers, of course." So if you want to go for the Jeb's Level with the Science Stuff too then you need to bring five Kerbals, because all of them are trained to pilot and to do science for one particular moon. If you add a Hitch-hiker Unit and four additional Kerbal, all of them landing on different moons, then it would be good for Jeb's Level. Otherwise it would be a Level 1 (one Kerbal lands on all moon) with additional science stuff which is not required at Level 1. Your choice!

Yeah, looks pretty difficult! I can wait... but if you post this as a Challenge then let us know here! And good luck with the finals!

Hell yeah! A Challenge between us!?

Thank you, I'm really happy about the success of this Challenge! I'm in England, Isle of Wight, so GMT. On the other side of the Earth than Perth, Australia... but with a good rocket it's just some minutes!

Sure! Collecting some stuff from Laythe's ocean sounds impressive for me too! I wish I could have some debris laying around there...

Ok, I have recomposed the rules for Jebediah's level, I hope they are more clear now. Please check them and if you find anything unclear then let me know!

Yeah, with 0.23 I allowed the Mobile Lab and thought it will be needed to bring back all the stuff but it turned out the science can be transferred now, making it more easier... but I want Jeb's Level to remain hard as hell , so if one doesn't bring back all the science stuff, at least bring back the Mobile Lab! LOL, you should bring back the Lab only. But if you want to collect al the stuff, well... you will definitely impress the decision makers back at KSC and the public too! Especially if you collect the parts from Laythe's ocean, as they were there for a long time. Maybe they will find living cells on it, who knows!? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reports_of_Streptococcus_mitis_on_the_Moon

Thank you! Yeah, when I was finishing all the possible missions with the stock I've got this idea before being to JOOL at all. I thought it will be my last and most complex mission in the game and decided it would worth to share/challange, especially that I didn't find any source on the internet about this kind of mission, if it's possible at all... So my intention with this challenge was to make a good resource for others, too, and I'm glad it worked out well! And now you have put your part into it too! BTW my first JOOL-5 mission planning (at Jeb's Level) was without any resource from the net and took several days on paper before I even started to build the ship in the game. And then I did a proof of concept mission to Mun and Minmus before going out to Jool. Now it looks a really basic mission with a lot of unoptimized parts but I didn't know a lot of stuff back then. But it went pretty well (except at Laythe) and it was very exciting to see the moons and land at first!! Oh, I don't consider KER, KAC and Enhanced Navball as 'mods' because I think they should be in the stock already, they are very basic stuff. MechJeb and new parts what counts here.

Sure. (... and more characters here becaue the forum doesn't allow short answers. )

zeppelinmage: Congratulation, you have finished the JOOL-5 mission on Jebediah's Level! At first, sorry for forcing the Mobile Lab to be landed back at Kerbin! Your solutions for this was awesome!! I really liked it, looked very cool. Thank you for the cooperation. Yeah, putting different weight on the sides of the main ship can make that unbalanced, but you get over that soon with the separated orbit insertions, well done. And changing the little lander was all fine. Wow, deorbiting the empty refueling ship into Jool only with RCS could take a lot of time! Nice logistics when the landers and the ship were apart. I liked your Crew Return Vehichles too. So, pretty nice mission with a lot of nice solutions. Thanks for participating! And for the patience.

Norcurion: Congratulation, you have finished the JOOL-5 mission! Absolutely epic mission with a lot of nice solutions! I really liked your 8 Kerbals Crew Transfer Vehicle, the changeable landing gears, the refittable lander, and especially the little plane at Laythe flying to the land for samples! Very well planned solutions! By the way for Vall and so you shouldn't have landing legs, the struts would be enough, but it's more elegant like this. And the Ike, Duna and Minmus landing is awesome too. Impressive mission! I see you didn't land the science instruments or the Mobile Lab back to Kerbin. I know you started your mission before the clarification about this rule so I don't want to ruin this awesome mission because of this... I already forced poor zeppelinmage to finish his mission with landing the Mobile Lab (he made an awesome solution for that )... So your mission is absolutely accepted az Jeb's level because of its well-planning, complex and cool solutions but if you want to go for 100% then bring your Mobile Lab back and land it on Kerbin! Otherwise absolutely impressive mission, thanks for participating!

Ahh, I just realized I've made a mistake and didn't notice that you didn't bring back five of each scientific instrument (one per moon) NOR the Lab. But no worries because it was not in the first 0.23 additional rule that it has to be landed back at Kerbin, because it was so soon that I didn't know about science transferring between pods and thought it should be brought back to count for the science points... Anyway, I will rewrite that section soon to be more clear. The main thing: the science lab is needed to be landed back at Kerbin with all the science inside. That's the safest way for the samples, and it will need an intensive cleaning before the next mission too.

zeppelinmage: okay, sounds good! I'm sorry about this fuss, the introduction of the Mobile Lab confused the original challenge... I would just like to keep the difficulty level for Jeb's level. So it's all about the effort needed to achieve it. Putting the main ship into Kerbin orbit and land the crew/lab separately will definitely do it.

OMG you give me a lot of work. Generally speaking for Level 1-2-3-Jeb only those mods are accepted which are balanced with the original stock parts in weight/thrust, thrust/fuel consumption, Isp, size, weight. Kethane is not allowed at all in the original missions. Also, for original and for Kethane versions too, everything has to go from Kerbin to Jool as one big ship. Otherwise it could be an unlimited mission to Jool after each othe, which could be fun, but wouldn't be a challenge anymore. If somebody wants to do this it's possible and I will link it as 'Mixed Solutions' or 'Kethane Freestyle'. It is best to start a new thread for it, or sum the whole expedition in one post here.

If you brought five package of science instruments to all the Jool's moons individually, and if you land them back on Kerbin, then that will do too. If you did not, and you don't land the Lab neither then your mission was much more easier than the general Jeb's Level for all the others who already done it. So what would you do if you were me? The main goal of this challenge is to have fun and I let refueling missions too to help those who run out of fuel. But there's a million way to do this, I couldn't think of everything in advance, and I have to draw a line somewhere which is needed to reach to be in the Hall of Fame, especially for the hardest version. Managing all the Science Modules for the different landings, and changing them on the lander, and bringing them back to Kerbin were the hardest part in Jeb's level, allowing the Lab with 0.23 made it already much more easier. Skipping this step too would be too much far away from the original difficulty, I think. I know you already put a lot of effort into your mission and I don't want to ruin that so let's have a deal: if you land your Mobile Lab in one piece, even with lithobraking and breaking the main ship , your mission will be accepted for Jeb's Level (if all the other rules were met too). What do you think?

Generally I made the rule only for the surface because this needs 5x5 science parts already. Forcing the use of 3 GOO, 3 SC-9001, etc (5 for Laythe) would mean more than 75 parts which could lead to lag for some people. And it was created before 0.23 when there was no Mobile Lab or science stuff transfer. So bringing more Scientific Unit is a way as one can be better than others within the Level, but this is not mandatory. And bringing the Mobile Lab back is important because of the funding cut, too. You know.

Hm, nobody used the Mobile Lab version yet who finished the mission... but everybody brought back all the Science Units which is harder to done (more logistics during the mission). Hm, but this rule was not really clear until some days ago and I don't want you to feel bad and end your mission so I suggest you to use KAS and send a ship with a lot of Mk2-R Radial-Mount Parachute on it's side, EVA a Kerbonaut and put them on your ship.

immelman: Congratulation, you lead the low-mass leaderboard now with 37.242 tons! Awesome! And by the way I almost started my 38.5 tons mission (with a Command Seat lander) so you made me rethink it now. I used 4 Jet Engines too, and I see you used normal fuel tanks too without Oxidizer. Really nice job with the gravity assists, the different "fuel stations" and the special order of landings!

Hi, at first for Jeb's Level it was mandatory to bring back all the science instruments to the Kerbin's surface (it was not possible to bring back everything in a pod yet). That required a very well planning of the return ship and needed a lot of parts. It could make some people's machine lagging so when the Lab appeared I gave the chance to change those parts into one Mobile Lab for returning. It still needs some planning but easier already. So if I would let all the science stuff bringing back in a Pod only that wouldn't be fair for those who already did it in the hardest way. And Jeb's Level is about being one of the hardest mission for the (about)stock game which is a big achievement when done. So sorry, at least a Mobile Lab is required bringing back!

I thank you. Yeah, I totally understand, nowadays I'm playing with the Urania planets with Kethane... I'm doing a big expedition, those planets/moons are awesome! (maybe I sent some people there now from here but for experienced players Urania is a big challenge! )

dualmaster: Congratulation for finishing the JOOL-5 mission with a 50.969 tons ship! Pretty nice job, especially that you went to Duna too. I really like your idea about the separate landers. I doubted your Laythe landing a little bit without parachutes and with such a small lander so I simulated it. I had some problem (ship turning upside down during aerobraking even at low altitudes, etc) and with a very optimal ascent path it was hard to ascent+EVA the Kerbal to orbit. But it is possible so great job! Yeah, I had the same problems with the solar panels when going on a minimal mission. Haha, your Duna landing with a lander on the side looks hilarious! Pretty cool, I'm sorry that I rounded the weights in the list, I thought fractions of a ton will not count... BTW I'm working on my minimal mission too, I already interrupted about 2-3 versions. One was almost done with 38 tons... but I run out of fuel before Pol. But I had new ideas since so I'm planning my new version again.

Hi, thanks for the question, that's good that you asked that before going on the mission. I downloaded the FTmN engines and they look good, but they have a lot of advantage against the stock nukes, especially in fuel efficiency (fuel consumed for a given thrust), but their Isps are better too, have lower mass/thrust ratio, and they have 2.5x better vectoring ranges. And yeah, dealing with the number of parts is in the Challenge too, so this would give you too much advantage and wouldn't be fair with those who made it on stocks, so I can't allow it, sorry. But they look pretty cool and if you want to use them anyway then go for it. If you finished the mission I will put your name in the Mixed Solutions! If you will skip these engines the Habitat modules and the new orange tanks are accepted in the challenge.

Hm, you're right, it's not in the rules. When I added it I thought it needs a Lab to bring them back, I'm sorry about that. I added it to the first post. Extreme Eva: Hm, you mean for Bop/Pol? Good question... well yeah, why not? I think the samples fit in the backpack.

Speeding Mullet: Congratulation, you have finished the JOOL-5 mission! I liked the Long-range communication dish! I think you shouldn't start with Tylo because you wasted a lot of fuel to brake and go out from there. It's nice job with the four seats at Tylo... yeah, landing a hitchhiker unit would need a big rocket! Also, respect for the no space debris rule. It's hard to do at some circumstances! And nice memorial for the rescue mission at Bop. And the synchronous jumps on Bop and Pol! And did you really circumnavigated Pol with EVA only? Good job, thank you for participating!