Quality Mods Sharing Niches with Stock Features

[JedTech]

There are several high quality Mods that I love which are beginning to shares niches with stock features. I think it's great that stock KSP has expanded in these directions! The future of some of these mods is uncertain. In some cases, development on these wonderful mods may be slowed or CANCELED all together . But in many cases, I think these mods can still add value to KSP and the KSP community. I am endeavoring to create a list of Mods that are beginning to share niches with stock features. Please let us know how you think these Mods can remain relevant as KSP continues to progress!

Mods sharing a partial to full niche with Stock:

• Anatid Robotics / MuMech - MechJeb (LC)
  
• Ferram Aerospace Research (NT)
  
• Toolbar (VU)
  
• Deadly Reentry (VU)
  
• Procedural Fairings(EN)
  
• Zero-Point Inline Fairings (EN)
  
• Kethane (EN)
  
• DDSLoader (CR)
  
• PartCatalog (EW)
  

Legend (modified from Wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_status)

• Extinct (EX) – No longer available for download
  
• Extinct in the wild (EW) – Known only to be in use in older versions of KSP
  
• Critically endangered (CR) – Extremely high risk of extinction in the wild.
  
• Endangered (EN) – High risk of extinction in the wild.
  
• Vulnerable (VU) – High risk of endangerment in the wild.
  
• Near threatened (NT) – Likely to become endangered in the near future.
  
• Least concern (LC) – Lowest risk. Does not qualify for a higher risk category.
  

I'd really like to accomplish these 2 items with this thread:

1. Create a list of Mods which are beginning to share niches with Stock Features
   
2. Start a discussion on how we can keep these quality-mods relevant as KSP progresses.
   

Edited March 25, 2015 by JedTech

[RapidUnplannedDissasembly]

Too right (10char)

[peadar1987]

How do we know all of these features are going to be mediocre? The only one that's actually come out yet is the PartCatalogue equivalent, which has been out for one version and is probably going to be improved in the next release.

[Daze]

You must be a dev right?

Note that i'm not talking about how stock is better/worse than mod, simply stating that it's DEFINITELY too soon to judge

[Guest]

Anatid Robotics / MuMech - MechJeb

How? You got some SmartASS functionality in stock? Okay, so what? You install MechJeb for quality autopiloting.

Ferram Aerospace Research - FAR/NEAR

You haven't even seen the new aero system, how can you claim this? Also, the new aero system has literally no chance of replacing FAR; you'll still be installing it if you want a more realistic aerodynamic simulation.

Deadly Reentry

About time. There's a new heat system coming as well. Again, we have no idea how it will work in practice, but it'll be much better than now, for sure.

Procedural Fairings

Eh, just install pFairings and prune the Squad ones, that's what everyone else in the world does when Squad's parts are terrible.

PartCatalog

Agreed that the new sorting system is bad.

Karbonite

Stock is getting Karbonite, or something based on it.

[Doctor Axel]

I don't think KSP's take on any of these ideas is mediocre at all - it's MINIMAL, which I think is perfectly acceptable for stock.

Yes, the mod landscape will change - I just think that's bound to happen anyway, and if mod developers choose not to update their mods to accommodate / dovetail with the new version, that's their choice.

[-RanZ-]

Kind of putting the cart before the horse here.... you are just assuming that the stock versions will be "mediocre". How about we get them released and try them first? Just because they become stock does that automatically mean the mod developers stop developing the features as a mod?

[smjjames]

About the only thing from mechjeb that's being replaced is the deltaV display in SPH/VAB, it does far more than that.

Besides, how do you know that the new features will be mediocre?

[Superfluous J]

I thought this was going to complain about how Enhanced Navball and SelectRoot aren't as good in stock as they were as mods. ENB is still a mod that is among the first I install, and SR is missed but the stock equivalent is at least as good under the hood, if worse from a UI perspective.

Everybody else covered the obvious, so that's all I got to add other than I agree with them

[katateochi]

Isn't Karbonite going to get a massive benefit from it's inclusion in stock? Far from being replaced it now has a foothold in the core game and the mod will extend on that. (at least that's from what I understand of the plans).

[JedTech]

Great input everyone, thanks!

I'd really like to accomplish these 2 items with this thread:

1. Create a list of Mods that may be endangered by stock features

2. Start a discussion on how we can keep these quality mods relevant as KSP progresses.

[-Velocity-]

Maybe the mods as you know them are endangered, but that's not a bad thing. Take FAR for example. Sure, its current incarnation could be scrapped, but either it, or something like it, would likely be reborn as a modification/enhancement of the stock aerodynamic model. Perhaps the new aerodynamics model will allow realism enhancements that are currently not even possible. It's just natural evolution into something different and (usually) better.

[TeddyDD]

I can agree that Blizzy's toolbar is way better than stock.

[Guest]

Create a list of Mods that may be endangered by stock features

The mods listed as endangered were made because Squad waffled on adding them into the game in the first place.

Perhaps the new aerodynamics model will allow realism enhancements that are currently not even possible.

This is true. Being able to complete shut off the stock system will allow people to make much better simulations because stock won't be getting in the way. Probably run faster too.

[Daid]

I can agree that Blizzy's toolbar is way better than stock.

I completely fully DISAGREE here. I hated that mod. Damn thing starts up at an odd place, need way too much of my time to be mushed into place, and looked like a total odd duck in the UI. The UX design was horrible. Mod that are now using the stock toolbar buttons are the best thing that happened for me.

[JedTech]

I think we can all agree that Blizzy's toolbar belongs on my "endangered" list. I think it will remain relevant (for now) as it provides extra functionality that stock does not yet provide.

Edited March 24, 2015 by JedTech

[HafCoJoe]

I find myself rather disappointed as I see many high quality Mods that I love being replaced by mediocre quality stock features. Some of these Mods have really assisted to make KSP the success that it is today. In many cases, development on these wonderful mods is being slowed or CANCELED all together .

Mod Examples Include:

• Anatid Robotics / MuMech - MechJeb
  
  
• Ferram Aerospace Research - FAR/NEAR
  
• Deadly Reentry
  
  
• Procedural Fairings
  
• PartCatalog
  
• Karbonite
  

Do you love any other Quality Mods that are or may be trampled by mediocre new features in a coming release?

Sorry to be rude, but I am very against your statement and especially your language involved. You can't accurately judge something until you've actually had the ability to test it. I've used mechjeb in my past and although it is an amazing mod and sure there is a bit of autopilot in stock KSP, but it by no means is a replacement, and the quality of the stock smart SAS features are by no means "mediocre". You also call the stock parts organization tabs "mediocre". Sure it may not be as easy as I'd like, but its far from mediocre.

You also are judging features you haven't even seen yet or used yet. Hold your korses!

[Tw1]

I completely fully DISAGREE here. I hated that mod. Damn thing starts up at an odd place, need way too much of my time to be mushed into place, and looked like a total odd duck in the UI. The UX design was horrible. Mod that are now using the stock toolbar buttons are the best thing that happened for me.

One good thing about it was the icons where small and got out. Of the way. That doesn't am to happen with stock.

[Musil]

If the maintainers for those mods want to keep on tweaking the stock features once they come out, I see no reason for the mods to be "endangered". If they stop working on the mods for other reasons, then the stock "replacement" had nothing to do with it. 1.0 is supposed to have a lot of features to help moders change the game, so it should be easier than ever.

Why you claim beforehand that the stock features for that are going to be mediocre is beyond me, showing no faith in the devs that have created this wonderful game. This OP pisses me off, a bit, I must be frank.

[JedTech]

If the maintainers for those mods want to keep on tweaking the stock features once they come out, I see no reason for the mods to be "endangered". If they stop working on the mods for other reasons, then the stock "replacement" had nothing to do with it. 1.0 is supposed to have a lot of features to help moders change the game, so it should be easier than ever.

Why you claim beforehand that the stock features for that are going to be mediocre is beyond me, showing no faith in the devs that have created this wonderful game. This OP pisses me off, a bit, I must be frank.

I apologize for any P1ss that you may have encountered. I'd rather not make any judgements toward the quality of stock features. But I do want to make a endangered mod list based on Mods who's niches are being encroached on by stock features. When a niche that an animal occupies is encroached upon by a new species to the area, the species is endangered or at least threatened in some way by the new species.

That said, I would love suggestions to reword my post so as to offend less and accomplish more of my two thread goals.

Edited March 24, 2015 by JedTech

[Kerbart]

If the stock functionality is truly mediocre, the mod will continue to be popular.

If the stock functionality is equal or superior, the mod's popularity will wither.

Assuming the willingness of the mod developer to continue working on the project is purely based on the mod's popularity there would not be any concern. Either the mod is no longer needed or it will continue to exist as it feeds a need not covered by stock.

[smjjames]

BTW, RoverDude has already planned it out on moving his stuff over to the new stock resource system. Of course though, modders can still add their own resource stuff, I seriously doubt we're going to be stuck with one harvestable resource (besides EC).

Kethane would probably be added to the list of endangered mods, but then again, it doesn't seem to be maintained anymore.

[Motokid600]

Simply replace "mediocre" in the topic title and op with "stock" and you should be good. I too worry for these mods... FAR the most. Ferram didn't sound too enthusiastic about it last I heard. ( months ago )

[SelectHalfling0]

I'd prefer KSP advancing so that these great mods can be stock in a great game. Even though it may put modders out of "business" (they aren't making much or any money off of it) it shows that the dev team cares about the progression of KSP.

[Alshain]

Not all implemented mods have been terrible. Toolbar and PartCatalog's "equivalent" certainly were, the part packs like SpacePlane+ seemed to go fairly well, the contract mod also implemented pretty well. Generally speaking, the more involved a mod is, the less likely the stock equivalent will hold up to it.

I'm sure Karbonite fans don't have to worry given the author's inclusion, I'm more concerned about what will happen to Kethane.

FAR/NEAR should not be a concern because the devs have said there is a way in code that the stock aerodynamics can be switched off entirely.

Deadly Re-entry shouldn't be a huge issue because it really only does one thing, though it might not be as customizable as the mod is. It should see some improvement because of the way heating is treated in stock now, DRE has to "fudge" some things as I understand it (but I've never used DRE so I'm just repeating what I've read).

Proc fairings has no reason to go away, but I'm curious how the new system will work, you might find you like it better.

I'm not sure why you think MechJeb is endangered. It doesn't seem to fit on that list. Even Kerbal Engineer would be closer, but it has so much information, one Delta V readout isn't going to even make it endangered.

If you need further examples of how so called "endangered" mods thrived, Enhanced Navball is still one of my absolute must have mods.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Alshain