What is with the LES.

[SemiaCloud]

The launch escape system needs to be refined. For example, you activate it in the staging sequence, and there is no way to remove it from the staging sequence, and when activated, it does not decouple the command pod? I think it needs a rework, anyone else agree?

[Majorjim!]

The launch escape system needs to be refined. For example, you activate it in the staging sequence, and there is no way to remove it from the staging sequence, and when activated, it does not decouple the command pod? I think it needs a rework, anyone else agree?

No I don't. I am little confused by this. What do you mean 'removed from the staging sequence? Nothing on your rocket that can be staged can be removed from the list unless you delete it in the editor.

And if you want your pod to decouple with the launch escape tower just put the decoupler into the same stage as the escape tower.

[Kerbart]

I think it's fine as it is. Mount it on a decoupler (upsidedown) and it will detach just fine when you want to detach it.

[Hotblack Desiato]

or add tweakable everything as a mod, and put a docking port on top of your capsule, and the LES on top of that docking port.

tweakable everything allows dockingports as decouplers.

this way you can get rid of the LES and free a dockingport at the same time.

[Guest]

The launch escape system needs to be refined. For example, you activate it in the staging sequence, and there is no way to remove it from the staging sequence, and when activated, it does not decouple the command pod? I think it needs a rework, anyone else agree?

Why do you want to decouple it once it is activated? The sense of the LES is to be activated and pull you craft away from the (exploding) rocket. If it would directly decouple your crew would die while the LES flies away on its own. Not really useful...

In my opinion it doesn´t need a rework. Works perfectly as it does.

[SemiaCloud]

Sorry, probably just me. Thanks for the tips though.

[stibbons]

The LES' place in the normal staging sequence is after it's no longer required. Between ascent and circularisation, insert a stage to decouple the LES and get rid of it.

Actually firing the LES in an emergency should be happening through the Abort action group. Add the LES firing, the probe decoupling, probably also shutting down any other engines to that action group. And then hope you never have to find out if it works.

[Hotblack Desiato]

like in regular rocket launchs.

you have a capsule, and ontop of it is the LES. but you don't want to carry the LES all the way up into space.

therefore, you have to jettison the LES at some point (because in reality that beast is heavy... apollo LES ~4mt), when it is already safe or doesn't matter (for example at the apollo launches, there was the abort-mode 1C (1-charlie). the LES was already jettisoned, and for leaving the malfunctioning rocket, the astronauts would have to use the RCS-thrusters.)

[impyre]

Use the abort action group to set up the LES as an emergency detachment system(you can add engines, SRBs, chutes, solar panels, decouplers, docking ports.... anything really, to action groups), and stage its decoupler normally when no longer needed.

[csiler2]

^What he said.

[Random Tank]

The only thing I think needs changing about the LES is to give it a bit more fuel, maybe 30-35 units instead of the stock 15, just to make sure it can get the pod away from the launch stage. I have the Stock Rebalance Mod (albeit a heavily modified version of it), which does this already; it also puts a decoupler built into it (not activated by staging) so you can decouple it with right click or action groups, but I always use the docking port trick as mentioned above, so it isn't really needed.

[wolfedg]

The only thing I think needs changing about the LES is to give it a bit more fuel, maybe 30-35 units instead of the stock 15, just to make sure it can get the pod away from the launch stage. I have the Stock Rebalance Mod (albeit a heavily modified version of it), which does this already; it also puts a decoupler built into it (not activated by staging) so you can decouple it with right click or action groups, but I always use the docking port trick as mentioned above, so it isn't really needed.

The one thing I would like to see added is the ability for it to be directly installed over the mk16xl parachute and perhaps the shielded docking port..

[Slam_Jones]

I find it works rather excellently as a hood ornament... (after some Tweakscaling, of course)

[panzer1b]

For the very few times i use it, i tend to bind it and the corresponding decoupler to a hotkey (or abort). I actually dont like to stage stuff aside from the classic rocket to LKO, after whatever i have is in LKO, i prefer hotkey/manual control. Also, makes weapons kinda buggy when you use staging (lets face it, who on earth would use the LES for any other use, its high mass, insane acceleration, and high accuracy when you have 2 to counter uneven thrust just scream kinetic projectile).

[Reactordrone]

or add tweakable everything as a mod, and put a docking port on top of your capsule, and the LES on top of that docking port.

tweakable everything allows dockingports as decouplers.

this way you can get rid of the LES and free a dockingport at the same time.

Docking ports work as decouplers in stock as well. Although I don't often use the LES, when I do I generally attach it to a docking port and set up an action group to fire the LES and decouple the docking port to get rid of the unused escape system. The abort action group fires the LES and a decoupler/separator under the command pod.

[Seshins]

as others have said i just action group the LES and the decoupler below the command pod to the abort action group, with maybe another action group set to a decoupler between the LES and pod.

[Alshain]

Works fine for me. You just have to set up your Abort action group. Put the staging icon at the very top. This is my Apollo-ish craft. The abort decouples the pod, activates the LES, and shuts down the main engines. I'm using RealChute in the screenshot to arm the chutes automatically too.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Alshain

[razark]

I have my LES attached to the top docking port of the capsule. It's in the staging group with the decoupler below the pod, right below the parachutes.

My Abort Action Group shuts down all engines, decouples the capsule from the rocket, and ignites the LES.

My 0 Action Group decouples the docking port and ignites the LES.

Normal flight: When I no longer need the LES, I jettison it with 0.

Aborts: Abort Action group, wait a second, hit 0 to drop the spent tower. Hit the spacebar to stage through until the chutes deploy.

If I'm not using the LES, I'll put three Sepratrons around the capsule. They're in their own stage between decoupler and parachutes, so they help slow the capsule on re-entry.

[Alshain]

My 0 Action Group decouples the docking port and ignites the LES.

That's a good idea, I've just been doing that manually and let it float away, but firing the engines would get it out of the way.

[Xavven]

Docking ports work as decouplers in stock as well. Although I don't often use the LES, when I do I generally attach it to a docking port and set up an action group to fire the LES and decouple the docking port to get rid of the unused escape system. The abort action group fires the LES and a decoupler/separator under the command pod.

What Reactordrone and Alshain (and razark now) have described is exactly the setup that I use. I pretty much never use LES as part of regular staging.

One thing that is annoying is that, after the patch that rotated the default VAB orientation by 90 degrees (was that .24?), the LES no longer pulls the capsule to the north or south. It instead pulls you either east or west (I can't remember which at the moment) which keeps you in the same plane as the exploding rocket beneath you assuming you're launching east, which like 99% of my launches are.

Easily fixed by remembering to rotate the part in the VAB, but still annoying that it's not the default.

[tg626]

My typical crewed set up is

AG1 - decouple LES & activate engine [of] LES

Abort - activate engine [of] LES & decouple command pod

AG0 - decouple LES & arm/deploy chute

AG1 is for normal ascent, and the abort sequence is "backspace" and then after engine burnout , AG0.

What would be nice would be AG0 were instead a second press of the backspace key. Or better yet, the second press pops the chute, detaches the LES AND fires a smaller secondary motor that pulls the tower clear of the capsule. But I think that's ridiculously detailed...

Tho I have been known to put sepratrons on the LES to pull the tower away during an abort. :-)

Edited April 14, 2015 by tg626

[Kowgan]

Particularly, I don't like the open space between the LES and the capsule caused by a decoupler. So, I've modified it to include a decoupler.

fx_gasBurst_white = 0.0, -1.372544, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, decouple
sound_vent_large = decouple

// --- FX definitions ---

{
name = ModuleDecouple
ejectionForce = 250
explosiveNodeID = bottom
}

MODULE

The result is that I'll never use the staging button to activate it. Either I'll decouple it, or activate its engines through action groups.

[Merinsan]

The launch escape system needs to be refined. For example, you activate it in the staging sequence, and there is no way to remove it from the staging sequence, and when activated, it does not decouple the command pod? I think it needs a rework, anyone else agree?

I see no good reason to remove the LES from the staging, because you want to get rid of it at some point during the launch (ie before orbit). But a way to remove items from the staging would be really good, especially with ships that have probes to launch off from time to time.

[Alshain]

I see no good reason to remove the LES from the staging, because you want to get rid of it at some point during the launch (ie before orbit).

Except that won't work for the Apollo-like craft like the one I put on the previous page. You can't stage a docking port, so firing the LES would just pull the whole craft a bit. That would only work if you used a decoupler, which would make the stack taller and look strange.

[Twreed87]

I just wish it came with it's own decoupler, just to make it look nicer. I don't like the look of having a decoupler or docking port between it and the capsule, I prefer the seamless look between them. I also wish I could stack a parachute between them, but I usually just use radial chutes instead.