The KSP 1.0 Grand Discussion Thread: Conquering Space Was Never This Easy!

[Sebskyo]

I love Porkjet work on space plane parts, but can we have in future updates more love for rockets please?

I agree. Although planes are great, they're not everyones' cup of tea. I'd love to see a larger focus on rockets in a rocket game.

[LostOblivion]

Where are the devnote tuesdays? It's wednesday.

[Curveball Anders]

Where are the devnote tuesdays? It's wednesday.

A qualified guess is that the staff is either dead asleep after an extended crunch and launch.

Or they're dead asleep after a mother of all indulgence of adult beverages.

I wish and hope of all my heart that it is the latter, it's more than well deserved.

[Greg310]

Hi All,

So I'll start by saying I'm a die-hard Kerbal fan with 800+ hours into the game. Having said that I'd like to offer some feedback about the 1.0 release.

My feelings on this matter are mixed. In general, I think the game is much harder now. For a long time Kerbal fan this is OK (maybe even desirable), but think about if you were just coming into the game as a new player. KSP has lost its fun sandbox-style appeal, and become more of a hardcore simulator. You should almost change the happy-go-lucky little Kerbal portraits with grim, sterm faces. Because Kerbal is serious business now! Kerbal 1.0 is absolutely an entirely different game that previous versions. Would you recommend the game to a friend now? Does the game now appeal to the average video game player? I'm not sure, to be honest. It certainly appeals to the hardcore space sim crew, but maybe not so much to the average person anymore. And that makes me a little sad.

New Aero model:

Honestly, I think the old aero/heat model should be the default in the game. And the new one should be a 'realism' setting that you enable. The average person or someone new to Kerbal is just going to say "This is hard", and go play something else. Their spacecraft is going to blow up due to overheating and they won't ever be able to figure out why. And so they will quit the game. (You can only monitor thermal information by turning it on in Dev mode, which is horrible).

Career mode:

Career mode is excruciating now. My other save games broke with weird issues so I decided to start a new game. The early tasks are extremely difficult and you only get a pittance of science from the contracts. The contracts are ridiculously hard even for an experienced KSP player, and often flat out impossible in the early game. Test a jet engine before I have air intakes? Activate an SRB at 90,000 meters? Ferry around tourists on Kerbin before I have jet engines? They also seem to want you to sacrifice your craft sometimes. (i.e. Fly by the Mun or be on an escape trajectory while activating a ridiculous part that will make craft recovery impossible).

Trying to get to the Mun (with no intercept information btw) I went to do something simple like transfer fuel in orbit and I couldn't because I apparently need 475,000 to upgrade the R&D building before I can transfer resources. And I cant solve the problem with fuel hoses and external tanks because I dont have fuel hose tech yet.

Bases and Construction

Still no construction in space? NASA certainly wouldn't be where we are today if that were true. The only way to build on space stations is to use docking ports, which often seems like a kluge. Why should I have to deliver a new girder attachment with solar panels and attach it with a docking port. It just seems weird.

I also have trouble comprehending how something so basic as landing pads couldn't be offered in a 1.0 release. If you build an outpost on another planet or moon, you would have a landing pad. Some place for transports or passenger craft to arrive and debark. The only way to refuel or service craft is to try to use docking ports. This is very unwieldy on the ground. Why do we not have the ability to make landing pads with resource transfer capability?? Or runways?? Want to explore another planet with an airplane? Maybe fly a rocket plane on Eve or even a jet on Laythe? You really can't because there is no way to refuel it. That is unless you try to dock your plane with some custom tanker design you have on the ground using a docking port, which is ridiculously unwieldy. Give us some damn landing pads with resource transfer!

Bugs

Obviously there are some huge issues with fairings, heat shields, parachutes, and temperature models. Plenty of other threads on those so I won't discuss.

Anyways, thanks for reading.

[Caelib]

I can understand your frustration, but I would give yourself some time to re-learn how to play the game with the new systems. I was frustrated initially, but now that I have spent a good chunk of time learning how everything works, I think it is a much, much, much better and more fun game.

I find most of the contracts aren't that helpful early-on like all the tourism/tests -- just accept the "explore [this object]". I would ignore most of them and only do the ones that seem easy/make sense because most of them aren't necessary to progress.

Low-orbit EVA reports over Kerbin, Mun and Minmus' Biomes are probably the most reliable way to earn science in the early career mode -- this will make it seem a lot less grindy.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Caelib

[Greg310]

Appreciate the response. Yeah I'm here to stay, I'm not going anywhere and will continue to play. Just making some observations. Funnily enough, I'm actually cash-starved as much as I'm science starved in the career mode at the moment.

[basic.syntax]

Plane parts were in sore need of work, but now that we have them, I wouldn't be too surprised if we see some overhauled or new rocket parts in a future large update.

Is it just me or have the science rewards been severely nerfed?

Yes they were. It was needed: in previous versions, science points were so easy to get, you didn't need to go farther than Kerbin's moons to complete the tech tree.

Where are the devnote tuesdays? It's wednesday.

I think a combination of launch hangover, and mad scrambling to track down reported issues... I think a patch is in our near-future.

Edited April 29, 2015 by basic.syntax

[Curveball Anders]

I can understand your frustration, but I would give yourself some time to re-learn how to play the game with the new systems. I was frustrated initially, but now that I have spent a good chunk of time learning how everything works, I think it is a much, much, much better and more fun game.

100% agreed.

I used many hours and many NSFW (nor children, clerics or child bearing women) words to begin to relearn.

But 1.0 is a lot more satisfying to play.

Harder? Yes! Annoying? Oh yes!. Frustrating? <censored> yes.

Satisfying when you manage do figure something out? Have a guess.

[Greg310]

100% agreed.

I used many hours and many NSFW (nor children, clerics or child bearing women) words to begin to relearn.

But 1.0 is a lot more satisfying to play.

Harder? Yes! Annoying? Oh yes!. Frustrating? <censored> yes.

Satisfying when you manage do figure something out? Have a guess.

Sure, and as veteran Kerbal players we like that sort of smashing your junk in the door repeatedly experience. But can you imagine trying to walk your friend through learning the game now as a first time player? They'd think we were crazy.

[Caelib]

KSP 1.0. is basically the equivalent of the Colemak keyboard layout ... everyone who knows QWERTY will HATE it with a passion until they master it:

http://planetax.com.mx/benefits-learning-colemak-keyboard-layout/

[m4inbrain]

100% agreed.

I used many hours and many NSFW (nor children, clerics or child bearing women) words to begin to relearn.

But 1.0 is a lot more satisfying to play.

Harder? Yes! Annoying? Oh yes!. Frustrating? <censored> yes.

Satisfying when you manage do figure something out? Have a guess.

This is kinda what i think, but there's a huge problem with that.

My girlfriend sitting next to me gave up after roughly 2 hours trying. She simply stopped playing and won't start it again. And i can absolutely understand that, kerbal definately lost the "build, launch, explode, yay" feel. It's alot more "serious" now, and that is definately a two edged sword.

[X-SR71]

Career mode:

Career mode is excruciating now. My other save games broke with weird issues so I decided to start a new game. The early tasks are extremely difficult and you only get a pittance of science from the contracts. The contracts are ridiculously hard even for an experienced KSP player, and often flat out impossible in the early game. Test a jet engine before I have air intakes? Activate an SRB at 90,000 meters? Ferry around tourists on Kerbin before I have jet engines? They also seem to want you to sacrifice your craft sometimes. (i.e. Fly by the Mun or be on an escape trajectory while activating a ridiculous part that will make craft recovery impossible).

Trying to get to the Mun (with no intercept information btw) I went to do something simple like transfer fuel in orbit and I couldn't because I apparently need 475,000 to upgrade the R&D building before I can transfer resources. And I cant solve the problem with fuel hoses and external tanks because I dont have fuel hose tech yet.

I have the same concerns. As experienced players, we can work around these issues. We know just firing the jet engine will mark the contract completed, even without intakes. We know we can empty boosters and firing them will still complete the contract. These workarounds are unknown to new players, however, and can make the game very frustrating early on. The lack of science and illogical tech tree is a pain too.

[Xavven]

I have the same concerns. As experienced players, we can work around these issues. We know just firing the jet engine will mark the contract completed, even without intakes. We know we can empty boosters and firing them will still complete the contract. These workarounds are unknown to new players, however, and can make the game very frustrating early on. The lack of science and illogical tech tree is a pain too.

I think this is spot on. Squad could make career better by learning how games teach players as the main career progresses.

[klgraham1013]

I agree. Although planes are great, they're not everyones' cup of tea. I'd love to see a larger focus on rockets in a rocket game.

Turns out that space programs actually use planes as well as rockets.

- - - Updated - - -

I have a tourist wanting a suborbital flight on the Sun. Mistake or intended?

So, they didn't learn from the "test launch clamps on the moon" contract debacle. Good to know.

[Greg310]

I have the same concerns. As experienced players, we can work around these issues. We know just firing the jet engine will mark the contract completed, even without intakes. We know we can empty boosters and firing them will still complete the contract. These workarounds are unknown to new players, however, and can make the game very frustrating early on. The lack of science and illogical tech tree is a pain too.

I'm embarrassed to say that I actually didn't know these things. And I consider myself an experienced player. /facepalm

[m4inbrain]

Best thing in 1.0 though, as feedback: 100% the battlestar galactica viper-style air intake.

Love it.

[Red Iron Crown]

Suborbital flight of the Sun is not impossible, though it is costly. Lower periapsis until suborbital, complete contract, raise periapsis to avoid roasted crew.

[ShadowZone]

KSP has never been a usability marvel. More on the contrary to that. I am playing vanilla KSP at the moment and up until now I haven't realized how much I have relied on KER providing useful flight information like true surface altitude, AP and PE info in flight, TWR, dV etc... those make it sooooo much easier. But not because they do things for you like MechJeb, no. Because they provide information you desperately need to really efficiently play the game. Vertical speed is one thing for instance. There is this ridiculously small gauge on the top of the screen. But when you have to fine tune your descent, the KER readout is sooo much better. Yes, I can switch to map mode and back to check my AP. But it is soooo much better to have it in view all the time.

And now the same with thermal info. That is actually something that should not be hidden in a debug menu! Something so crucial to craft performance and survival has to be readily available for the player.

[Caelib]

And now the same with thermal info. That is actually something that should not be hidden in a debug menu! Something so crucial to craft performance and survival has to be readily available for the player.

There is a heating warning that shows up in the staging for critical parts, but I agree that we need to a way to see the current temperature/max tolerance of all parts at once.

[Dimenus]

I never realized how much I relied on Procedural Parts / tweakscale to make efficient rockets.

Making a manned mun lander/return in under 30 parts in the stock game is significantly more difficult.

[klgraham1013]

Suborbital flight of the Sun is not impossible, though it is costly. Lower periapsis until suborbital, complete contract, raise periapsis to avoid roasted crew.

It's not whether it's possible, it's whether it should be a contract at all.

[LostOblivion]

It's not whether it's possible, it's whether it should be a contract at all.

Hah! IRL, people volunteer to suicide space pioneering all the time. Like one-way missions to Mars, etc. Doesn't mean space agencies cannot turn them down. All you have to do is turn down this crazy tourist. :-)

The launch clamps testing, however, is kinda weird since it is requested by scientists, allegedly. (But, hey, they're kerbals, they probably don't know better... :-P)

[Robotengineer]

(But, hey, they're kerbals, they probably don't know better... :-P)

I would really, really, really like for 'Oh, they're just Kerbals' to stop being an excuse for poor contract (and game) design.

[klgraham1013]

Hah! IRL, people volunteer to suicide space pioneering all the time. Like one-way missions to Mars, etc. Doesn't mean space agencies cannot turn them down. All you have to do is turn down this crazy tourist. :-)

No one would volunteer for a one way trip to the sun. The tourist contracts are supposed to be about tourism, not suicide pacts.

edit: I suppose, technically, you could recover from that situation and make it back to Kerbin. It's not guaranteed death. Only mostly guaranteed death.

Edited April 29, 2015 by klgraham1013

[MaxxPower]

I like the new aero model.

Rockets are easy, low altitude planes are easy, space planes are hard. As it should be.

As for the career mode, i totally agree.

The science progression is absolute crap. You need to grind forever with the same handful of crappy parts before you can build something useful. The grind feels even worse than a japanese mmo.

There need to be much more parts available at the start, especially larger fuel tanks, fuel lines, decouplers, and a few plane parts.