[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[RoverDude]

Excellent

 

[Kowgan]

0.3.8 fixed the hab issues as listed by goldenpsp, but unfortunately, the VAB UI bug still persists.

[BrutalRIP]

3 hours ago, Kowgan said:

0.3.8 fixed the hab issues as listed by goldenpsp, but unfortunately, the VAB UI bug still persists.

ive also been seeing this VAB UI bug 

[kuroikage]

Wrong forum and can not delete....so moved my post to the correct forum.  Sorry about that.

Edited February 4, 2016 by kuroikage

[GokouZWAR]

So is hab fixed now and released or still pending? If pending is there any way to disable hab until it's fixed that we can do to it?

[RoverDude]

Hab is fine, but you can just set it to 0's if you don't want the mechanic (do it in both USI-LS and Kolonization)

[Kobymaru]

I don't think alle the bees are out just yet,

On 3.2.2016 at 7:18 PM, Kobymaru said:

Hi, on the latest version, "Start Life Support" doesn't actually do anything but make the supplies time readout wrong.

Observe the Supply left time according to USI on the left, and according to Alternate Ressource Panel on the right.

Turned off: 277 days, according to USI tab, and according to Alternate Ressource panel

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Turned on:  2y 75 days according to USI tab, and 277 days according to Alternate Ressource panel

  Reveal hidden contents

Also, the USI display goes down multiple seconds per second. This might be related to the issue that people report supplies going down, although the time is going up.

This issue still persists in 0.3.8. I created a GitHub issue here: https://github.com/BobPalmer/USI-LS/issues/66

Also note that the issue where opening the preview in the VAB kills all vessel LS-states is also still present in the latest version, and @Kowgan already created a GitHub issue here: https://github.com/BobPalmer/USI-LS/issues/59

[GokouZWAR]

On January 19, 2016 at 0:29 AM, RoverDude said:

0.3.0 IS UP!

• EVA timer is now based on how long the kerbal has been EVA.
• Habitation space is now a thing - see the forum for details.
• The in-flight view has had a visual refresh to reflect the new data.
• Multiple LS configs are now supported, with a delta inclusive of the most pessimistic changes being used.
• Added displays to the tracking station, space center, and VAB/SPH
• SPH display includes build aid information for the current vessel
• Reduced mass of Nom-O-Matic 5000
• Kerbals no longer raid the supply tins - but they will unlock all of them.
• Corrected stack nodes for nom tanks
• Kerbals in command seats should properly consume supplies
• Recyclers and Habitation calculations, if enabled, can extend to nearby landed vessels to better facilitate disconnected bases.

So where exactly is the post on the forum that covers the details of the habitation mechanics? I thought it would be with the above post but was disappointed when I spent so much time flipping pages looking for it to find nothing but "check the forums" lol. Where exactly IN the forums do we have to check? :/

[goldenpsp]

2 minutes ago, GokouZWAR said:

So where exactly is the post on the forum that covers the details of the habitation mechanics? I thought it would be with the above post but was disappointed when I spent so much time flipping pages looking for it to find nothing but "check the forums" lol. Where exactly IN the forums do we have to check? :/

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/105202-105-usi-life-support-036-bug-fix-update/&page=49#comment-2360975

[GokouZWAR]

7 minutes ago, goldenpsp said:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/105202-105-usi-life-support-036-bug-fix-update/&page=49#comment-2360975

Thanks for doing leg work for me, at work right now and couldn't get to it. I appreciate it. I'll take a look. 

[GokouZWAR]

So I read over some of the stuff and was wondering if a "longing for space" buff for kerbals sitting in the KSC doing nothing for the program was considered? Those kerbals would be excited to go into space and would get a head start by having a buff to allow for the longer journeys to the edges of the system. Maybe even a buff to tell the kerbals at the KSC that they are going further out. Also expanding on this, kerbals with a higher courage score would also buff faster than ones with a lower courage score (fear factor). That buff would drop to 0 over time of course but it would allow them a head start for their mission and the higher courage kerbals would see a much slower reduction of that buff than a non courage kerbal. Maybe even the highest courage kerbals would barely be affected by cramped quarters for extended missions because they're just that badass..  but the scare kerbals might not want to even be in the ship for a few days without something to take their mind off what they're doing (high hab buffing parts)

We've been missing a reason for getting high courage kerbals this might give that skill a purpose like EL gave purpose to the stupidity skill. Those kerbals with a higher courage skill could do a few things for the crew and the hab level degradation as well, for instance with a high courage kerbal on board he could give pep talks to the lower courage crew members making the overall hab level drop slower than a ship full of scared kerbals. Or it could affect only his own level of degradation where he can last longer in the ship as a whole before he goes off and "pouts" and turns into a tourist. This way kerbals who are scared could be thrown in the smaller capsules for shorter missions and not be a big deal but the higher courage rates kerbals could be sent off to the remote edges of the system in a less "habitable condition" and still be ok with it to a point knowing they are doing something amazing for kerbal-kind.

one other aspect that might be interesting to introduce is an SOI buff for habitation. Whenever they change over to a new SOI they get a burst of habitation (antisipation of arrival) as well as a complete reset of habitation timers if they actually set foot on a planet (for the first time only on this mission though) this would allow for getting kerbals to the outer edges by setting up fly bys of other planets and moons as well as actual landings during the missions.

might be something to consider or build off of.

Edited February 4, 2016 by GokouZWAR

[Kadrush]

Roverdude, 

 

Thanks for the amazing mods of the USI series, I really love them. But this new mechanic for the USI life support could use some balance. Altough I believe the following issue is related to the way that the module manager deals with the current changes you made:

 

Mk 1 lander can 30 days of habitation

Hitchhicker module 120 days of habitation with crew of 4 (dont use the 30 days 1 kerbal for 1 space formula)

Duna Class 5m Heavy Habitat 30 days of habitation with 3 kerbals out of 8.

 

I say that because my 3 kerbals on a Duna Class Heavy Habitat became tourists after just 40 days on Minmus.

That means that a gigantic module capable of holding up to 8 kerbals and equiped even with a Gym provides less habitation confort than a Hitchhiker module and the same as a Mk 1 lander can, feels unbalanced. That concerns me as a trip to Duna takes several years and I am not sure how to handle such changes. On that subject I am considering to start using Deep Freeze mod to counter that but i am not sure how USI life support current mechanics will handle it.

 

 

Edited February 4, 2016 by Kadrush
Adding information

[GokouZWAR]

I'm kind of at the point of disabling the hab until its flushed out a bit. I like the idea but its still kind of early in development. I think it could be pretty good as well. 

I still like my idea of buffing kerbals using the courage skill level as a base and the various SOI changes, landing on the planet, maybe even a boost when orbit is achieved as well around a new planet. Kerbals get excited! Maybe not call it "habitation" but maybe "Morale". A bigger place would give them bigger morale boosts. The concept is still there but it makes more sense and would explain why changing ships and going places would reset the level. If you moved from a tiny cramped place into a bigger ship, your morale would go up too...

[sardia]

RoverDude, My big three have become converted to tourists. I don't think this is intended. Please confirm?

Edited February 5, 2016 by sardia

[RoverDude]

1 hour ago, Kadrush said:

Roverdude, 

 

Thanks for the amazing mods of the USI series, I really love them. But this new mechanic for the USI life support could use some balance. Altough I believe the following issue is related to the way that the module manager deals with the current changes you made:

 

Mk 1 lander can 30 days of habitation

Hitchhicker module 120 days of habitation with crew of 4 (dont use the 30 days 1 kerbal for 1 space formula)

Duna Class 5m Heavy Habitat 30 days of habitation with 3 kerbals out of 8.

 

I say that because my 3 kerbals on a Duna Class Heavy Habitat became tourists after just 40 days on Minmus.

That means that a gigantic module capable of holding up to 8 kerbals and equiped even with a Gym provides less habitation confort than a Hitchhiker module and the same as a Mk 1 lander can, feels unbalanced. That concerns me as a trip to Duna takes several years and I am not sure how to handle such changes. On that subject I am considering to start using Deep Freeze mod to counter that but i am not sure how USI life support current mechanics will handle it.

 

 

Let me explain

There are two ways you get more hab space.  One is by.. well, space.  A place to live.  You get some just based on crew capacity.  Other modules can add to this (the hitchhiker does this, as do the habitation modules and the giant hab ring in UKS).  The other way is by *multiplying* your existing hab capacity - and this is pretty powerful stuff.  The Kerbitat does this (so does the stock Cupola).  So in the case of your Duna vessel, add a hab ring and watch the difference

For example, a hab ring, a couple of hitchhikers, a pair of cupolas and a kerbitat will get you to almost five years for a crew of six.  i.e. interplanetary vessels are going to *look* interplanetary.  That's the design.

 

17 minutes ago, GokouZWAR said:

I'm kind of at the point of disabling the hab until its flushed out a bit. I like the idea but its still kind of early in development. I think it could be pretty good as well. 

I still like my idea of buffing kerbals using the courage skill level as a base and the various SOI changes, landing on the planet, maybe even a boost when orbit is achieved as well around a new planet. Kerbals get excited! Maybe not call it "habitation" but maybe "Morale". A bigger place would give them bigger morale boosts. The concept is still there but it makes more sense and would explain why changing ships and going places would reset the level. If you moved from a tiny cramped place into a bigger ship, your morale would go up too...

Actually, if you use UKS, as your colony grows, it provides a habitation buff that grows over time.   And the end-game pieces will essentially turn your colony into a mini-Kerbin (i.e. it refreshes the master hab timer, and there are no penalties while there).

[lodestar]

2 hours ago, Kadrush said:

I say that because my 3 kerbals on a Duna Class Heavy Habitat became tourists after just 40 days on Minmus.

 

What's this Duna Class Heavy Habitat you're talking about?

[Kadrush]

36 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Let me explain

There are two ways you get more hab space.  One is by.. well, space.  A place to live.  You get some just based on crew capacity.  Other modules can add to this (the hitchhiker does this, as do the habitation modules and the giant hab ring in UKS).  The other way is by *multiplying* your existing hab capacity - and this is pretty powerful stuff.  The Kerbitat does this (so does the stock Cupola).  So in the case of your Duna vessel, add a hab ring and watch the difference

For example, a hab ring, a couple of hitchhikers, a pair of cupolas and a kerbitat will get you to almost five years for a crew of six.  i.e. interplanetary vessels are going to *look* interplanetary.  That's the design.

 

Actually, if you use UKS, as your colony grows, it provides a habitation buff that grows over time.   And the end-game pieces will essentially turn your colony into a mini-Kerbin (i.e. it refreshes the master hab timer, and there are no penalties while there).

1-Thanks for the aswer, but I dont find gamey to add a hitchhiker in my interplanetary ship just for the multiplier, it is a quite cramped space and no very usefull if you roleplay, as you already have inflatable habs and other stuff performing the same job. Yet, I agree for the multiplier for the OKS habs in an interplanetary ship. Before the hab mechanics I roleplayed it and sent a gigantic ship to Duna with aeroponics, kerbitat, pioneer, the inflatable hab and many other stuff (actually it was my first trip to Duna so I sent a fleet of 10 ships with landers, probes, 2 refineries, ressupplye ships, wasnt taking any chances).

 

2-I agree with the guy above and it would be nice to be able to find the right line on the settings file to take down the hab mechanics if we are experiencing a hard time.

 

3-Do you think it is possible to use this new mechanic with the deep freeze mod without bugging the ship (or the save)?

 

4-Is it possible to add an experience factor to the hab multiplier per kerbal, i mean, a more stars kerbal, a more corageous one, a more experienced (spending a long time away) should increase the time he can stay in a given space without going into a strike.

 

5- I am experiencing a hard time trying to understand the life support mechanics to reduce the supplies usage by my kerbals, so far it is just to high.

 

5- BUG: I managed to rescue my "tourist" kerbals by sending a ship there and I believe i found a bug. My "tourists" were stuck on a base at minmus, so i had to land a ship nearby and conect both using a flextube (nice part by the way). Once my ship got close the "tourists" resumed working but with a very low timer, so I decided to swap them with the ship crew and send them home. Once I disconected the flextube I discovered that my lander was not using any supplies, nor had a hab timer, even with a crew of 3 inside, the USI life support stuff was totally turned off from it. I found a similar issue with the derp rescue pod from the USI survivability mod, even with a kerbal inside, it just dont use supplies (altough it uses TAC supplies normaly).

 

6- BUG: I believe there is a phanton energy usage with the Nommatic (the garden part that make supplies, the stronger one), i have fusebox mod installed and one of those radial power plant of yours that give 50 of energy per second. Once I turn on the Nommatic fusebox tells me that the energy usage went up by around 20 (to a max of around 25) per second and that my energy production is 50, yet my batteries are slowly being drained, unless I warp faster than 4x.

 

Edited February 5, 2016 by Kadrush
Grammar (kind of)

[RoverDude]

UKS - He's likely referring to the Kerbitat (the Duna class being the more traditional MKS-looking bits vs the inflatables).

[sardia]

1 hour ago, RoverDude said:

UKS - He's likely referring to the Kerbitat (the Duna class being the more traditional MKS-looking bits vs the inflatables).

Any confirmation about the big three orange dudes being converted to tourists due to running out of supplies?

[goldenpsp]

1 minute ago, sardia said:

Any confirmation about the big three orange dudes being converted to tourists due to running out of supplies?

Check your LS settings.  If you are using the latest MKS, Vets are set to become tourists by default.

[sardia]

Thanks for the confirmation, I wasn't sure if this was intended or not. Are the veterans just better at living in space now?

Edited February 5, 2016 by sardia

[goldenpsp]

1 minute ago, sardia said:

Thanks for the confirmation, I wasn't sure if this was intended or not. Are the veterans just better at living in space now?

Nope, they just wear orange.

[CovertJaguar]

3 minutes ago, sardia said:

Thanks for the confirmation, I wasn't sure if this was intended or not. Are the veterans just better at living in space now?

At one point, Veterans had the benefit of not dismantling your ship when they get grouchy (Kolonization config). But it seems that feature has been disabled by default until some of the hab time bugs have been resolved. The default penalties were much more severe in 0.32.0.0 and have been progressively neutered in the following versions because the life support timers have been kind of unpredicable. I wouldn't be surprised to see harsher defaults return to Kolonization once things are proven to be stable.

[GokouZWAR]

13 minutes ago, sardia said:

Thanks for the confirmation, I wasn't sure if this was intended or not. Are the veterans just better at living in space now?

They can be if your settings are set right.  set the effectsVets to 0 from 1 and they aren't affected by supplies or hab..  

Actually, if you use UKS, as your colony grows, it provides a habitation buff that grows over time.   And the end-game pieces will essentially turn your colony into a mini-Kerbin (i.e. it refreshes the master hab timer, and there are no penalties while there).

Can you elaborate on this? I saw the colony stats screen and the three numbers and only one was going up...but what do you need to do to make the colony have no hab limits? Just get those numbers up? How do you affect the different numbers and what do they do? Or are you just referring to expanding and making it bigger over construction of new parts or does it just grow without doing anything?

[RoverDude]

I'll do a guide on it.  But basically, the longer you keep people on a planet, the higher those numbers go (and we're talking up to about 200,000 or so... they get big for a decades-old kolony).  It will result in a bonus to the habitation number of any habs on that planet.  So not good for your first colonists, but better as you establish yourself - and even better if you have more bases.

There is not (yet) anything that gets you the infinite hab - those are new parts that are not yet released.