[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[Jimbodiah]

RoverDude, is it possible that USI LS changes the classification of kerbals somehow? Bill, Bob and Valentina are now listed as tourists after not having gotten anything to eat for a few days (greedy buggers!). I don't know when it happened (didn't notice it until I launched them and could not EVA with them), so I no longer have relevant logs.

 

Edited October 18, 2016 by Jimbodiah

[danfarnsy]

33 minutes ago, Jimbodiah said:

RoverDude, is it possible that USI LS changes the classification of kerbals somehow? Bill, Bob and Valentina are now listed as tourists after not having gotten anything to eat for a few days (greedy buggers!). I don't know when it happened (didn't notice it until I launched them and could not EVA with them), so I no longer have relevant logs.

 

This is what a "grouchy" kerbalnaut looks like. He takes pictures, gets manicures, refuses to do work unless you bring him supplies...

[Jimbodiah]

9 minutes ago, danfarnsy said:

This is what a "grouchy" kerbalnaut looks like. He takes pictures, gets manicures, refuses to do work unless you bring him supplies...

Ah okay, thanks for the confirmation. I had removed the LS mod, so they did not revert; I just changed the persistent files to get them back into slave labor. There goes my credibility as care-taker.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Jimbodiah

[Fyrem]

eek! RoverDude  Help : 

The Admin  office keeps giving me Rescue Contracts of a kerbal in orbit, but that Kerbal is in a Viewing Cupola!!!!! with NO HATCH to EVA out!!!   Not even a Surface Attach able way to KAS screw on a docking port so I can link up... the poor guy is in a SEALED can, with NO way out, floating forever in space.   Can you either mark the Viewing Cupola so that the Contracts system do not generate it as a vehicle in space with a sealed in Kerbal?

or give the vessel surface attach so at least I can glue on a docking port

or add a HATCH! 

lol

 

 

[DStaal]

5 minutes ago, Fyrem said:

eek! RoverDude  Help : 

The Admin  office keeps giving me Rescue Contracts of a kerbal in orbit, but that Kerbal is in a Viewing Cupola!!!!! with NO HATCH to EVA out!!!   Not even a Surface Attach able way to KAS screw on a docking port so I can link up... the poor guy is in a SEALED can, with NO way out, floating forever in space.   Can you either mark the Viewing Cupola so that the Contracts system do not generate it as a vehicle in space with a sealed in Kerbal?

or give the vessel surface attach so at least I can glue on a docking port

or add a HATCH! 

lol

 

[stub]

My first Minmus flyby has turned into a rescue mission, as I didn't pack any additional supplies and my pilot has turned into a tourist. Is this works as intended, or do pods need more default supplies to cope with the increased consumption? IIRC, pods were supposed to have enough supplies for most kerbal system system missions.

edit: And now Valentina and Bob refuse to get out of the front seat of the Malemute, so the pilot they just rescued with 1 days of habitation timer left can't fly them home from the Mun.

Edited October 18, 2016 by stub

[Tarheel1999]

@stub you get ~7 days of hab time per seat and have a ~15 day grace period for supplies. Per RoverDude both are intended. So for a return trip you will need to do high energy transfers to stay under the supply grace period and will need either two seats per kerbal or a station at Minmus to stay under the hab timer. 

Use the supplies button in the VAB, to plan accordingly. 

Edited October 18, 2016 by Tarheel1999

[Jahulath]

8 hours ago, Fyrem said:

eek! RoverDude  Help : 

The Admin  office keeps giving me Rescue Contracts of a kerbal in orbit, but that Kerbal is in a Viewing Cupola!!!!! with NO HATCH to EVA out!!!   Not even a Surface Attach able way to KAS screw on a docking port so I can link up... the poor guy is in a SEALED can, with NO way out, floating forever in space.   Can you either mark the Viewing Cupola so that the Contracts system do not generate it as a vehicle in space with a sealed in Kerbal?

or give the vessel surface attach so at least I can glue on a docking port

or add a HATCH! 

lol

 

 

I rather like these missions - my 2 possible solutions are a completely automated vehicle covered in chutes and airbrakes and a CLAW for docking or alternatively a return pod with chutes and claw for when I can't get enough DV to get the often fragile modules down safely.

I enjoy the idea that the target is sealed inside a pod without a working airlock (2001 - Dave where's your helmet?) and I have to either cut through the hull to get to them or bring the whole thing down from orbit   Don't get me wrong it can be a right old pain in the Ar$£ but it's a good challenge...

 

Also @stub if it helps I wrote a config that strips out the mono propellant and fills the space with an equivalent weight of supplies, I don't know if it still works with 1.2 but I think I posted it a few pages back. I'll give it a test tonight because I'm about done enjoying the new unmanned aspects of 1.2.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Jahulath
added a bit for Stub

[LeLeon]

@RoverDude On Toolbar the both USI icons appear purple (blank). Tested on almost USI-only and also on more modded state. Tried on existing career and on a fresh sandbox game.

Archive contains 3 pics and 2 logs

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6IfqHC0fCsFUlJaNm5zR05Mdlk/view

 

[RoverDude]

Log a github issue, I'll take a peek

[Yuri kagarin56]

Is there anyway to bump up habitation time? Ive started using this LS mod and Im rather unfamiliar. Is adding parts with crew slots the only way to increase hab time?

[DStaal]

13 minutes ago, Yuri kagarin56 said:

Is there anyway to bump up habitation time? Ive started using this LS mod and Im rather unfamiliar. Is adding parts with crew slots the only way to increase hab time?

That's the most basic, there are two additional above that: Some parts are dedicated habitation parts, and add extra habitation time.  Think living quarters.  And some parts are habitation multipliers, which increase the habitation of the rest of the ship.  (There are a bit more abstract, but include things like recreation areas, or environmental controls, or even a good kitchen.)

[PocketBrotector]

Are there balancing guidelines for incorporating life support functionality into other parts under the new v0.5 system? i.e. the ratios and capacities for recyclers, converters, multipliers, etc. to assign to parts based on their mass and other considerations?

Asking because I had created configs for earlier versions of USI-LS to support other part packs (e.g. Nertea's Stockalike Station Parts). Want to make sure I am following the current balancing logic if I submit updates.

[Crabman]

45 minutes ago, Yuri kagarin56 said:

Is there anyway to bump up habitation time? Ive started using this LS mod and Im rather unfamiliar. Is adding parts with crew slots the only way to increase hab time?

You can use ColonySupplies to generate more hab/home time to your kerbals. You need a MKS 'Duna' Colonization Module, MKS 'Duna' Medical Bay, MKS 'Tundra' Medbay OR MKS 'Tundra' Colonization Module (2,5m or 3,75m).

ColonySupplies are created at MKS 'Tundra' Assembly Plant or you can ship them from Kerbin.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Crabman

[Yuri kagarin56]

Just now, Crabman said:

You can use ColonySupplies to generate more hab/home time to your kerbals. You need a MKS 'Duna' Colonization Module, MKS 'Duna' Medical Bay OR MKS 'Tundra' Colonization Module (2,5m or 3,75m).

ColonySupplies are created at MKS 'Tundra' Assembly Plant or you can ship them from Kerbin.

Im thinking more of an actual ship to Duna. Rather than a colony at this point

[Crabman]

Just now, Yuri kagarin56 said:

Im thinking more of an actual ship to Duna. Rather than a colony at this point

So just ship ColonySupplies from Kerbin, and use it at one of those mentioned modules if you want to create more hab/home time. If you just want to live a little more time you can just use habitation modules, inflatables or not. And be sure to balance between Common and Quarters if you are using the inflatable one, because one gives more hab time and the other one don't give, but multiplies it.

[Yuri kagarin56]

1 hour ago, Crabman said:

So just ship ColonySupplies from Kerbin, and use it at one of those mentioned modules if you want to create more hab/home time. If you just want to live a little more time you can just use habitation modules, inflatables or not. And be sure to balance between Common and Quarters if you are using the inflatable one, because one gives more hab time and the other one don't give, but multiplies it.

For some reason none of these exist for me. Im doing 1.0.5 version.

[Iqilipi]

On 10/14/2016 at 9:16 PM, Nachocuban said:

Not entirely sure if this is a bug, or even this mod causing my issue in particular.

I did a tourist mission and used the viewing cupola as the seat for the tourist. But, the mission did not register the tourist being in orbit(or anywhere for that matter).

I did complete an earlier tourist mission using the stock 2 person plane fuselage.

 

I am using all the USI mods that are up to date on CKAN, plus an assortment of others that *shouldn't* have any effect on this.

I'm experiencing this issue as well.

 

Edited October 19, 2016 by Iqilipi

[charliesoap4]

On 10/18/2016 at 6:02 AM, Tarheel1999 said:

@stub you get ~7 days of hab time per seat and have a ~15 day grace period for supplies. Per RoverDude both are intended. So for a return trip you will need to do high energy transfers to stay under the supply grace period and will need either two seats per kerbal or a station at Minmus to stay under the hab timer. 

Use the supplies button in the VAB, to plan accordingly. 

My guys are turning to Tourists before even getting to Minmus.  Well within the 7 grace period days.

[Bishop149]

21 minutes ago, charliesoap4 said:

My guys are turning to Tourists before even getting to Minmus.  Well within the 7 grace period days.

I've had the persistent tourist issue too, maybe some mechanism should be introduced that upon return to KSC their status is reset regardless of what was going on with their life support in flight.

[Tarheel1999]

6 hours ago, charliesoap4 said:

My guys are turning to Tourists before even getting to Minmus.  Well within the 7 grace period days.

There is no grace period for habitation.  There is simply ~7 days per seat for regular crewed parts. Have you used the LS GUI to see what's happening? Are you running out of EC?

Edited October 19, 2016 by Tarheel1999

[Space Cowboy Bob]

6 hours ago, charliesoap4 said:

My guys are turning to Tourists before even getting to Minmus.  Well within the 7 grace period days.

One-way to Minmus trip is 8 days in itself, so yes your crew will turn to Tourist before ever getting to Minmus. I have found that I need to add an MK2 Lander Can and reduce my 3 kerbal crew to 2 and that doubles my hab. Still can't do a round-trip though but at least my tourist return to duty at 25K.

[Tarheel1999]

2 hours ago, Space Cowboy Bob said:

One-way to Minmus trip is 8 days in itself, so yes your crew will turn to Tourist before ever getting to Minmus. I have found that I need to add an MK2 Lander Can and reduce my 3 kerbal crew to 2 and that doubles my hab. Still can't do a round-trip though but at least my tourist return to duty at 25K.

The most efficient trip to Minmus is 8 days. You can do it in less with a high-energy transfer. It costs a little extra to on the insertion burn and the capture but it can reduce the trip by several days. 

[charliesoap4]

3 hours ago, Tarheel1999 said:

There is no grace period for habitation.  There is simply ~7 days per seat for regular crewed parts. Have you used the LS GUI to see what's happening? Are you running out of EC?

Not running out of EC.  Is there a way for the LS GUI to list Kerbal days instead of Earth days?

[MiniMatt]

Another quick balance note, possibly one which might provide some relief to the Minmus mission habitation timer discussion above.

The viewing cupola versus the observation cupola.

Both mass 0.35t, both provide a hab multiplier of 0.5 affecting 1 crew, both have identical impact/heat/pressure/gee tolerances, and both have identical mounting concerns
But the viewing cupola additionally has a single crew seat, and additionally provides 1 hab-month.

The effect of this is that in order to bump up a regular 2-crew cabin (eg Mk2 plane or lander cabins) to a ~20 day habitation one can add either 7 observation cupolas for 2.45t mass, or 2 viewing cupolas for 0.7t mass.

 

Next one is more of a gut feeling rather than a directly observable inbalance:

Hitchhiker versus Mk2 Crew Cabin

Hitchhiker at 2.5t will keep 4 kerbals entertained for 165 days.
Mk2 Crew Cabin at 2.0t will keep 4 kerbals entertained for 7 days.

Now I realise that 500kg difference is significant - that's a lot of thumb drives filled with hard core Belgian trance-electro pop-jazz funk-disco fusion - but when you add other multiplier modules the disparity grows rapidly.
In order to turn a Mk2 Crew Cabin into a 4-kerbal 165 day expedition you'd need to add 42 observation cupolas (14.7t), or 21 viewing cupolas (7.35t), or 8 PPD-12 Cupolas (14.4t)

Suggestion would be to add some kerbal months to the other passenger cabins, whilst leaving an advantage with the hitchhiker to account for it's mass-per-passenger penalty and it's physical size.

 

I'm finding multi-year missions quite straightforward (especially when adding the MKS modules), but ~20-30 day missions have a tendency to railroad toward fairly narrow choices.