[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[SymbolicFrank]

If you intended to rant, well done. If you wish to be helpful, some detail would be useful. I've never noticed any missing components, and you give no details on how things are "breaking".

Bah.

I did post an error message of a missing part, just below a moderator complaining about someone posting the exact same error message. In the general USI thread, because I had no idea which specific mod it belonged to.

So, to recap:

1. Posting error message in general USI thread is frowned upon by moderator.

2. Posting error message in specific USI thread is frowned upon by some random fanboy.

What to do next?

[goldenpsp]

Bah.

I did post an error message of a missing part, just below a moderator complaining about someone posting the exact same error message. In the general USI thread, because I had no idea which specific mod it belonged to.

So, to recap:

1. Posting error message in general USI thread is frowned upon by moderator.

2. Posting error message in specific USI thread is frowned upon by some random fanboy.

What to do next?

misquote much? Posting errors is great. You didn't post any error tho. You just ranted that you have errors but no useful details to make your post well, useful.

[SymbolicFrank]

misquote much? Posting errors is great. You didn't post any error tho. You just ranted that you have errors but no useful details to make your post well, useful.

Ok, replying to you is a waste of time. But anyway:

My initial post was a friendly heads-up. If you feel that was a rant, you haven't encountered me taking something apart. Be glad

[Hevak]

Bah.

I did post an error message of a missing part, just below a moderator complaining about someone posting the exact same error message. In the general USI thread, because I had no idea which specific mod it belonged to.

So, to recap:

1. Posting error message in general USI thread is frowned upon by moderator.

2. Posting error message in specific USI thread is frowned upon by some random fanboy.

What to do next?

Idk why a moderator would say you can't post error messages, maybe they simply meant that it's better served to post in a thread specific to the mod causing issues instead of a general thread? Idk. But Roverdude is more than happy to look into and help with any issues.

RoverDude, I love your mods. But they do conflict a lot, and tend to have missing components.

Especially USI Life Support always seems to break something. I always install it after it is compatible with the latest update, but I always remove it afterwards, because it breaks things..

This is what people are probably taking issue with. For a couple reasons. First it adds nothing to the purpose of getting help. Secondly it sounds, well rather negative. I've used USI mods for almost as long as I've played ksp. And there are rarely ever missing components, in the sense that something just wasn't put in by some oversight or some sort of bad work. Which is what this sounds like. I have no conflicts with any mods I run so far with this or any other USI mod. So they do not conflict a lot. USI life support does not always seem to break something, because it has broken nothing for me. In fact he goes to great lengths to make sure his mods do not conflict with other mods as much as possible.

these statements look nothing more than a knock on someone's hard work, and a put down towards there work and competency. It may not have been meant that way, but it's how it comes across.

and then all you said is it conflicts with the Taurus mod. But offered nothing to explain what the conflict is or anything helpful to what is causing you issues in your first post.

if you simply stated something along the lines of hey I'm having an issue with this mod and such and such mod. This happens when I have this mod and some other mod installed. When I remove this mod the problem goes away. Then maybe add is the known? Does anyone know of a fix or workaround for this? Maybe even ask if the mods will be made compatible. And add any relevant information to help with your issue. It would probably have come across much better. The above quoted part is really Not needed and doesn't nothing to help with the problem, and more than often tends to seem inflammatory to many.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry for for two posts in a row but seriously.

Ok, replying to you is a waste of time. But anyway:

My initial post was a friendly heads-up. If you feel that was a rant, you haven't encountered me taking something apart. Be glad

Nice attitude, so now it's passive aggressive threats? This makes your orginal post seem worse.

This tends to be a rather helpful community and well I see Goldenpsp help a lot of people. As do many others. Threats to be glad you haven't done something are just really bad form.

RoverDude, I love your mods. But they do conflict a lot, and tend to have missing components.

Especially USI Life Support always seems to break something. I always install it after it is compatible with the latest update, but I always remove it afterwards, because it breaks things..

how the above is read by me and many others I'm sure. "Hey Roverdude I love your mods but they are crap. They conflict with a lot of stuff and are always broken and missing things. "especially USI life support. It's always breaking something and I always install it and remove it afterwards because it's junk and break things."

i hope you get your issue fixed or find some better mods out there that aren't such junk and always broken and missing stuff. Good luck being received well in the future with the attitude you have.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Hevak

[SymbolicFrank]

Hevak, if your KSP suddenly slows down to seconds-per-frame and takes many minutes switching between the VAB and launchpad, you have to investigate.

The first thing to do is press Alt-F2. And when you see mostly red, flashing along very swiftly, you gather something is wrong.

The next thing to do is look at the log, and especially the exceptions. And all of them had something to do with USI.

A warning is something to improve, an error requires attention, and an exception is something that should be fixed ASAP!

So, after investigating that it wasn't a one-time occurrence, and that it was definitely related to USI, I wanted to give feedback to the developer. By posting the errors, with all the relevant information needed. But a moderator disagreed.

And, you might ask, how do you know what information is relevant? Because I'm a software developer myself. When I'm not a project manager. But why should that matter?

Then again, I know some modders here require you to follow their exact rules for you to be allowed to post a bug report. Because they expect nobody understands anything about programming or modding, and do everything wrong that can be done wrong. And they might have a point, in many cases. Or perhaps simply because it's easier to treat everyone as a moron: at least you don't discriminate that way

But it's perhaps easiest to say that the modders are God, know exactly what they are doing, and anyone who objects to anything is a heretic and should be punished.

Then again, without feedback there will be no improvements, either. So think about it for a while before you get emotional about it

[Hevak]

@SYmbolicfrank..

if you are a developer then you should know more than anyone your initial post in no way helped anything. All you said was there is a problem..

and no one is getting emotional except maybe you. Not sure why you are feeling punished. But you're actually the one that needs to think about things for a little while. Maybe think about how you would respond when someone contacts you about your software and says. Hey your product is junk. It's always broken and missing things and I always install the latest version only to uninstall it because it just breaks things. It has a problem with product X.

You're the one there is no point responding to. So have a good day. Good luck.

edit: and just looked at the general USI thread you last posted in. And the moderator said nothing about not posting to the other person before you, and I see no response to your error Post. In fact the moderator told someone "this is the second thread you posted in a snippet of a log."can you elaborate on the issue you're having in each of them please." so yeah the moderators issue was this. what exactly is your problem. We need more Info to help you, Other than just saying I have a problem, it doesn't work. Or just posting about 1/1000th of a log file.

In fact the moderator didn't complain about anything. They said more Info is need to help.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Hevak

[goldenpsp]

Wow SymbolicFrank, I gotta say if you took half the time it took to write all of those replies actually posting ANY details it we wouldn't even be going down this line of replies.

First, nobody here has been privy to your moderator situation. I am not a mind reader, so I could only comment on what you wrote here.

So given that you are apparently a software developer AND Project manager I have one easy question. Please re-read your post #342 and tell me, if you got that feedback from say, someone on your team would you:

1. Reply with something like "thanks for the great feedback and heads up. I'm sure with all the details you gave me I can certainly figure out the issues and fix the bugs"

2. Reply with something like "Ok, would you please provide some details that would actually help me fix the issues. You state there are missing components, what components are they? You are seeing conflicts with Taurus HCV. What errors are you seeing?"

BTW the only one getting emotional is you. All I want is for you to post ANYTHING useful concerning the problems you have encountered so someone might be able to do something useful with it. Heck post the error logs here. I'd love to see the mod try and strike it down so we can all go to town on him.

[DuoDex]

SymbolicFrank, if you are indeed involved with software development and project managing, I am sure the value of a bug report that meets the developer's requirements would be apparent.

Please do as RoverDude says when he provides a format for bug reports - after all, it is his mod and he knows best what exactly is going on!

[prog]

SymbolicFrank,try to log issue on github with all the details about errors and so on. I think it's preferable way to do it. I mean if it is not there already.

[ModZero]

BTW the only one getting emotional is you.

Excuse me. Quite a few of people here got emotional. Which is fine. We're either human, Kerbals or sentient supercomputers amusing themselves by moderating game forums. All of these have emotions, like "some person claiming that making a vague allusion to a long-known issue constitutes a friendly heads-up is kinda jarring and spoiling my groove", for example. Nothing wrong with that.

[Hevak]

In order for us all to move on and to get this thread back on topic and end the arguments about emotions and what not let's recap.

snipped non useful stuff..

At the moment, it is incompatible with the Taurus HCV.

please expand upon exactly what issues you are having and log a github issue so Roverdude can try to address your problems

The Taurus HCV thing is known. It actually gets even more fun with new BDAnimations module.

Also, RoverDune, please please update the version in the thread title? Now I worry I missed an update all the time :<

he may have been notified on your issue but I see 4 issues listed on github and not about this. so for Roverdude to give proper attention to these issues please log a github issue for him. It is where he checks on things and tracks them when he updates mods. And if possible please explain what makes it more fun when bdanimations is also installed.

Also he usually uses ksp avc checker for all his mods. Maybe this LS mod hasn't been set up for it yet. But that avc mod is highly recommended for all USI mods as it will notify you in most cases there is a new version up. It's how I keep all my USI and many other mods up to date. But yes a title update would be nice and help a lot.

Taurus HCV has a monopropellant "launch escape system" slash landing assistance engines. Those get triggered on launch if USI-LS is present. RoverDude knows about that. /me isn't bothered, because /me is very slow in career and this is an alpha anyway.

This kind of more detailed descriptions are much more helpful in trying to solve the conflicts between Taurus Hcv and USI LS. Again please log a detailed github issue so that these issues can be more easily and properly addressed by Roverdude. This is his preferred way of tracking and addressing issues, as he has somewhere near 15 mod threads to watch. Anything we can do to help him has always been appreciated by him. And he always asks that github issues be posted for any problems with his mods.

There are exactly 4 issues logged on github and none are related to Taurus Hcv as far as I can tell. So this issue could get lost in the shuffle.. Hopefully he can solve your issues. Good luck with all your ksp endeavors

Edited May 9, 2015 by Hevak

[RoverDude]

Wow! Serves me right for going away for the weekend

Is there a way to add supplies to the command pods them self? Or do you alway have to

add a supplies part to the craft.

I prefer the latter, the former is redundant IMO but can be done with module manager.

Now that the life support is displaying time remaining after installing MM, the kerbals in red should be inactive & what i understand is 15> days should w.o supplies, in the vessel i have which is 55 days without supplies i have a kerbal that can eva, pickup surface samples, plant flags etc.

Edit: might be an issue w. kerbals launched pre- MM, other ones seem to be starving.

You do not consume supplies until you're past 50K of altitude.

So how does this life support exactly work? Why am i losing months/years worth of supplies with some "airlock message" when i have adequate food, how do i prevent this.

Also if 1 Nom-o-matic 5000 can't support a single kerbal while slightly producing less then whats being consumed and thus flagging the vessel equal to a vessel without a nom-o-matic 5000, what good is it for?

You lose them when you either try to lock them away, or freeze your kerbals in which case stuff gets lost in the process. This is to prevent exploitation by just locking a container in an attempt to force-hibernate your kerbals

The nom o matic *extends* your range - so your 100 day supply will last 200 days.

RoverDude, I love your mods. But they do conflict a lot, and tend to have missing components.

Especially USI Life Support always seems to break something. I always install it after it is compatible with the latest update, but I always remove it afterwards, because it breaks things.

At the moment, it is incompatible with the Taurus HCV.

My stuff does not tend to have missing components. As noted, your report was exceptionally vague. Log a github issue with details RE the Taurus HCV

[ModZero]

My stuff does not tend to have missing components. As noted, your report was exceptionally vague. Log a github issue with details RE the Taurus HCV

Ah, it wasn't my issue (as I said, I use Taurus, but I didn't get to it in career anyway), but I remember it from reports by other people (including you acknowledging it, with a mention that you have an idea because it was similar to something, I think EPL? - unfortunately can't find the post right now). I kinda assumed it was filed somewhere, but it ain't. Anyhow, I went ahead and did a basic test, which resulted in a issue filed: https://github.com/BobPalmer/USI-LS/issues/7. HtH.

[smunisto]

So, Rover, "CausesDeath=true" will cause the Kerbals to die after 15 days without supplies, right?

[rabidninjawombat]

So, Rover, "CausesDeath=true" will cause the Kerbals to die after 15 days without supplies, right?

That is correct (or whatever time you set in the settings file )

[protoz]

You lose them when you either try to lock them away, or freeze your kerbals in which case stuff gets lost in the process. This is to prevent exploitation by just locking a container in an attempt to force-hibernate your kerbals

Some RP joke?

The nom o matic *extends* your range - so your 100 day supply will last 200 days.

My point is, if you have 10,000 units of mulch and 0 supplies in a vessel with a 1 nom-o-matic-5000 and 1 kerbal, that vessel is equivalent to one with ZERO nom-o-matic-5000 and 0 mulch, you would have to eva the kerbal out of the vessel to let the vessel generate 0.01 units of supplies in order for the life support time to reset to 0.

[waterlubber]

Can we get radial biscuit cans? I really like the look, feel, and execution of this mod, and it needs radial biscuit cans. The 1.5m ones don't really fit in perfectly.

[Sarxis]

The Settings.cfg dictates the amount of time the Kerbals can go without supplies? I usually like to adjust these to 'taste'

[KerbMav]

.

Yes, it is in seconds, use this for six kerbal hours and deadly consequences.

LIFE_SUPPORT_SETTINGS
{
	SupplyTime = 21600
	CausesDeath = true
	ECAmount = 0.01
}

[futrtrubl]

Some RP joke?

The first part is. The second part is why it's actually done.

My point is, if you have 10,000 units of mulch and 0 supplies in a vessel with a 1 nom-o-matic-5000 and 1 kerbal, that vessel is equivalent to one with ZERO nom-o-matic-5000 and 0 mulch, you would have to eva the kerbal out of the vessel to let the vessel generate 0.01 units of supplies in order for the life support time to reset to 0.

The nom-o-matic produces just a bit more than a kerbal uses so you shouldn't need to EVA the Kerbal to catch up. But then again, that use case is.....odd and unlikely.

[Sarxis]

Yes, it is in seconds, use this for six kerbal hours and deadly consequences.

LIFE_SUPPORT_SETTINGS
{
    SupplyTime = 21600
    CausesDeath = true
    ECAmount = 0.01
}

I'm curious what the ECAmount does?

[futrtrubl]

I'm curious what the ECAmount does?

Electric Charge Amount, how much electricity is used for life support.

[RoverDude]

Some RP joke?

No, a game mechanic.

My point is, if you have 10,000 units of mulch and 0 supplies in a vessel with a 1 nom-o-matic-5000 and 1 kerbal, that vessel is equivalent to one with ZERO nom-o-matic-5000 and 0 mulch, you would have to eva the kerbal out of the vessel to let the vessel generate 0.01 units of supplies in order for the life support time to reset to 0.

Sorry, this does not even make sense.

It's really not that complex... it takes a unit of mulch and turns it into half a unit of supplies. That's it.

[Enceos]

@RoverDude have you noted my post 6 pages ago? http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/116790-1-0-USI-Life-Support-ALPHA-0-1-0-2015-04-27?p=1919658&viewfull=1#post1919658

[kiwiak]

Kerbals dont use life support on eva.

I understand that its like this in order to prevent un-controllable kerbal that run of supplies from drifting into space. Taking him back inside woudl be very hard.

How about draining life support resources from nearest ship? Right now, if resources run low player can take all kerbals on eva and wait few month for right phase angle without using his life support

So even on eva kerbals woudl use nearest resources avaible and even when these are depleted, just arraving with rescue ship (with supplies on board) woudl be enough to "bring back to life" stranded kerbal and allow him to crawl back to pod.