[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[Sarxis]

Is there a disadvantage to just shutting off the snack containers and flicking them briefly on every so many days? I've got my starvation rate set to two days (down from 15), and I'm awefully tempted to just shut the containers down and turn them back on briefly to keep the kerbals fed. But of course, that means even the small radial container could theoretically nourish a single kerbal for longer than 100 days.

[RoverDude]

The Kerbals will ignore your attempts to lock them, and will throw all of the supplies into the airlock in their haste to get at the snacks.

[ModZero]

no, you'd run out of edible supplies if your supplies rotted and your recyclers failed during the mission...

Well, in the Real Lifeâ„¢ replacement parts are a large consideration, and would be a significant portion of the payload for complex, long-lived missions. I do believe it's impossible to simulate that in a playable way without either abstracting it into oblivion (and then you could consider your "replacement parts" a part of the life support supplies and ignore them) or having something like OSE Workshop/KIS going on. And some people would hate EVAing around fixing leaks enough to make it reasonable to make it optional. But no, it wouldn't make sending Kerbals to far out places impossible. Just super hard, as it should be.

[jwenting]

Well, in the Real Lifeâ„¢ replacement parts are a large consideration, and would be a significant portion of the payload for complex, long-lived missions.

yes, and they tend to not wear out just sitting there in spare, which is what the idea here seems to be, parts wearing out over time whether they're used or not.

So after 10 years or so in space you're left with no food, and no machinery to create food, and no way to get replacements because by the time they'd reach you they're also worn out or spoiled.

Not a good situation.

[RoverDude]

yes, and they tend to not wear out just sitting there in spare, which is what the idea here seems to be, parts wearing out over time whether they're used or not.

So after 10 years or so in space you're left with no food, and no machinery to create food, and no way to get replacements because by the time they'd reach you they're also worn out or spoiled.

Not a good situation.

Actually, spare parts do break down. Especially in space.

Everything has an MTBF and an appropriate duty cycle. At some point stuff breaks. Catalyst materials run out, and filters wear out. Parts are cannibalized. Duct tape is wielded with reckless abandon. This is simulated by a flat curve where, after the rated lifespan of the gear, it will begin to degrade.

So yeah... dropping a bit of complex life support gear on Eeloo that was built for a trip to the mun and expecting it to work at 100% efficiency 100 years later is a bit of a stretch.

And yes... if you plan your trip and go to Eeloo for a 50 year trip and expect your life support gear meant for a 5 year duty cycle, you should not be surprised if things go pear shaped. Yet this would be completely self inflicted.

Final note - the third tier will be the heavy-but-effectively-infinite-lifespan version (infinite because there's a max duration on a KSP save).

[ModZero]

Sheesh, after some time most materials start getting all weird, especially all your fancy plastic stuff. At least there's no oxygen in space to corrode your stuff, unless it's a tank full of oxygen (or something even nastier), but then there's radiation, which, given enough time, can cause lots of fun things to supposedly inert stuff. Oh, and coming back to those liquids you carried, they're all gels now.

EDIT: but really, the reason *I* like it is less "zomg Real Lifeâ„¢ and more that it would make it harder to put a Kerbal anywhere beyond Mun. If things don't spoil and break, it's all too easy to pack everything.

Edited August 21, 2015 by ModZero

[mhoram]

Pull request please

Done.

So I am looking at extending USI-LS in a few different ways (each of which is also about adding a new mechanic).

1. One would be the idea of a time-based mechanic - basically, the inherent recyclers (the things that provide heat, cooling, scrub CO2, etc.) would have a service life.

2. In addition to resources and the mechanic above, where failure is life or death, add a 'happiness' factor, where the Kerbals need more space and more advanced facilities to keep them healthy and happy based on ship duration. The 'fail' penalty for this would be separately configurable - so a Kerbal squished into a lander can for ten years may not die, but they'd be really grouchy. This would be a case where the lander can is good for, say, 30 days. But then you need simple habs to extend into the several months, and for super long term stuff, you will need centrifuges (for orbital stations) as well as medical bays, etc. to keep the Kerbals kicking.

3. Automatic supply scavenging. If a Kerbal runs out of supplies, they can look not only in their current ship (and it's locked containers) but also other ships within a certain radius. This way, just by air dropping a bunch of supplies, Kerbals will happily EVA to pick them up. UKS already does this, but I'd like it as something built into the core life support mod.

#1 interesting stuff, since it involves more planning how much spare parts to bring with.

#2 This would encourage long-term-trip-ships to become more massive because of additional needed parts. My first thought is that there are probably better ways to encourage this kind of playstyle. I am rather inclined against this.

#3 Sounds fine, but please use as a radius one of the ranges already available in UKS since there are already a lot of different ranges for different purposes - and adding an additional different range would complicate your mods at a point where in my opinion no one would benefit from. (perhaps even put the ranges-definitions into USITools)

[RoverDude]

Well for clarity, there are no spare parts. Rather the lifespan is abstracted out.

[mhoram]

Thanks for the clarification of #1 - misunderstood that part. Sounds like an interesting concept and would differentiate the missions more based on their duration.

[ModZero]

Well for clarity, there are no spare parts. Rather the lifespan is abstracted out.

Ah, I'd kinda like it more if it weren't completely abstracted out  for a large part maintenance might be a difference between lasting a year or fifteen. But I appreciate that having both a definite lifespan and maintenance mechanic might be a bit too complex, even just code-wise.

[RoverDude]

Ah, I'd kinda like it more if it weren't completely abstracted out  for a large part maintenance might be a difference between lasting a year or fifteen. But I appreciate that having both a definite lifespan and maintenance mechanic might be a bit too complex, even just code-wise.

That's called MKS

[Gkirmathal]

RoverDude, great mod in it's simplicity I must say!

I was wondering about something which I haven't manually read though all those pages of this thread.

Crewed command parts all have internal models textured showing 'supplies/O2/snacks/etc'.

From a stock roleplay perspective, can we assume that the crewed command parts weight already accounts for having X amount of basic supplies included in their weight?

If so, how much would the min supply nr per Kerbal be, if one would make a MM cfg adding supply/mulch resource and adjusting part weight accordingly??

[mhoram]

@Gkirmathal:

A single Kerbal consumes 0,00005 units of supplies per second or 1,08 units per day.

Supplies have a density of 0,001 meaning that a Kerbal consumes 0,00108 ton = 1,08 kg of supplies per day.

You could take these numbers as a baseline for your MM-config depending on how many days you want to keep them alive.

[Bloody_looser]

Played around with this mod a bit more, and I really enjoy it. It's simplicity suits me well.

Since all life-support mods are based on the same mechanic, like - use resource X to prolong suffering lifespan of %kerbalname%, also %kerbalname% produces resource Y, which you can combine with resource Z to replenish resource X - having ten ten various resources to fiddle with IMO actually adds nothing gameplay-wise. So, this mod suits me really well.

Also, I've been suffering from lack of some carriable small supply package, so I've made my own.

[goldenpsp]

Played around with this mod a bit more, and I really enjoy it. It's simplicity suits me well.

Since all life-support mods are based on the same mechanic, like - use resource X to prolong suffering lifespan of %kerbalname%, also %kerbalname% produces resource Y, which you can combine with resource Z to replenish resource X - having ten ten various resources to fiddle with IMO actually adds nothing gameplay-wise. So, this mod suits me really well.

Also, I've been suffering from lack of some carriable small supply package, so I've made my own.

http://i.imgur.com/vsf08JV.png?1

OMG Adorable.

[RoverDude]

I like it

[Olympic1]

Played around with this mod a bit more, and I really enjoy it. It's simplicity suits me well.

Since all life-support mods are based on the same mechanic, like - use resource X to prolong suffering lifespan of %kerbalname%, also %kerbalname% produces resource Y, which you can combine with resource Z to replenish resource X - having ten ten various resources to fiddle with IMO actually adds nothing gameplay-wise. So, this mod suits me really well.

Also, I've been suffering from lack of some carriable small supply package, so I've made my own.

http://i.imgur.com/vsf08JV.png?1

Looks very good. IMHO: Make the green band go all around the package?

[Bloody_looser]

I'm glad y'all like it.

Make the green band go all around the package?

Well, I imagined this green thingie more like a sticker, not a band. Something like this. However it'll get a number to represent supply quantity and to match RoverDude's parts (whether 15 or 20, so it won't be too op).

[monstah]

RoverDude, great mod in it's simplicity I must say!

I was wondering about something which I haven't manually read though all those pages of this thread.

Crewed command parts all have internal models textured showing 'supplies/O2/snacks/etc'.

From a stock roleplay perspective, can we assume that the crewed command parts weight already accounts for having X amount of basic supplies included in their weight?

If so, how much would the min supply nr per Kerbal be, if one would make a MM cfg adding supply/mulch resource and adjusting part weight accordingly??

I'm working one one myself. I'll share it here when it's properly balanced.

@Gkirmathal:

A single Kerbal consumes 0,00005 units of supplies per second or 1,08 units per day.

Supplies have a density of 0,001 meaning that a Kerbal consumes 0,00108 ton = 1,08 kg of supplies per day.

You could take these numbers as a baseline for your MM-config depending on how many days you want to keep them alive.

Thanks for these numbers! I ran some quick tests and got "close enought for my purposes to 1 per day" as results, these are definetely better.

[SmashBrown]

Played around with this mod a bit more, and I really enjoy it. It's simplicity suits me well.

Since all life-support mods are based on the same mechanic, like - use resource X to prolong suffering lifespan of %kerbalname%, also %kerbalname% produces resource Y, which you can combine with resource Z to replenish resource X - having ten ten various resources to fiddle with IMO actually adds nothing gameplay-wise. So, this mod suits me really well.

Also, I've been suffering from lack of some carriable small supply package, so I've made my own.

http://i.imgur.com/vsf08JV.png?1

Do share. Looks lovely.

[rabidninjawombat]

Do share. Looks lovely.

I second that Would love to use that myself

[Bloody_looser]

Wow, ok, I'll finish the texture - place number and stuff and post it in a single thread. Will link it ITT, if RoverDude don't mind.

[Gkirmathal]

I'm working one one myself. I'll share it here when it's properly balanced.

Great to hear! Will you also plan to incorporate the KIS containers btw?

What are your thoughts on resource amounts? I'm currently using 100 units per kerbal for command mudules and 200 p/k for longterm modules like the Hitchhiker.

[sharpspoonful]

RoverDude, great mod in it's simplicity I must say!

I was wondering about something which I haven't manually read though all those pages of this thread.

Crewed command parts all have internal models textured showing 'supplies/O2/snacks/etc'.

From a stock roleplay perspective, can we assume that the crewed command parts weight already accounts for having X amount of basic supplies included in their weight?

If so, how much would the min supply nr per Kerbal be, if one would make a MM cfg adding supply/mulch resource and adjusting part weight accordingly??

Ah, you beat me to it! I was wandering over to this thread to ask about the exact same thing. @monstah PM me today and tomorrow if you need help, as I have a craft in LKO with all re required parts, mods, and other assorted items to stress test your MM.

[Bloody_looser]

Polished my supply package and providing a link.