[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[crash087]

On 12/13/2015 at 1:47 AM, Snarfster said:

Try radially attaching it to the craft. I don't think stuff from inventory gets used.

i did that too. they dont get touched either, nor do the ones in the craft. The craft doesnt even show up in the lifesupport list. I have three pods flying, all with radially attached mini paks, but only the two stations i have in orbit appear in the life support window

[RoverDude]

2 hours ago, almagnus1 said:

Here's a thought:

Why not change habitation into morale?  When you get down to it, an unlivable space would cause low morale, and as the space degrades, it would also cause morale to drop.  This way you can still require <appropriate resource> to still maintain vehicles, you still maintain the mechanic, but you also eliminate the concept of things wearing out.

While the concept of things never actually wearing out is unrealistic, it's kind of essential to KSP with your approach to USI-LS, as you don't kill kerbals by default (unlike TAC-LS), which means things wearing out and breaking shouldn't occur because that's the equivalent of killing structures.  It's definitely a feature that could be enabled, but one that's off by default.

What's not sitting well with me is that I am no longer in control of when things need to be replaced, as the habitation mechanic is usurping that control (as I currently understand it).  That will creates more unnecessary work, whereas a morale mechanic makes sense, as that's a direction that things should go, and (to me at least) fits with the general USI-LS approach to life support.  The other advantage to morale is (for vanilla at least) happier scientists can get a productivity bonus to the mobile processing lab, and that mechanic also works well with the various productivity mechanics of UKS.

The creation of uncessary work is also why I recently pulled Remote Tech from my mod install, as it was making pre-communication network gameplay less fun that I really wanted it to be because you need to be high enough in the tech tree to get the solar panels so you can loft the satellites to geostationary orbit, which basically added too much busywork, and it's something I'd like to avoid as there's enough stuff to do with the various USI mods as it is.

Bear in mind that mechanic only lights up if you turn it on, and it's meant to be turned on for things that not only use it, but also have the means of reversing the change (i.e. UKS).  It's very core to the vision I have with this mod, but also one that I intentionally keep turned off unless you're opting into the rest of the core USI bits (or any other pack I make that bundles appropriate habs, etc.).

That being said... it already is a config value (it's just not in the config file since it uses the defaut, but I'll toss it in for completeness next release).  One could make 'indestructible' tents that last a thousand years, but still annoy a Kerbal if they are stuffed into then for a decade.  All of the dials are already there.

(edit)

To go one step further, there's a bit of confusion as to the purpose of USI-LS.  It is not to make things 'Easier', rather, it is to transform what is normally a dead end from a gameplay standpoint (my Kerbal is dead), to a gameplay enhance ('My hab on Duna just went kaput, and my Kerbals need my help - how do I rescue them? or 'Val messed up her orbit and ran out of snacks, and can't pilot her craft to get home - how do I save her?').  Every mechanic is there to add interesting constraints and challenges, but also make sure they can be overcome.  The analogue in RT, since that was cited for comparison, would be like when you lose signal and are pretty much hosed, vs. including mechanics that still give a player an 'out' (and not ironically, I am designing the stock RT analogue - so look for some of the same philosophies).

 

2 hours ago, crash087 said:

is anyone else seeing an issue where new ships launched dont show up in the Life support menu? the two space stations i have show how much supply is left, but the ships im launching now dont even show up, even though they have the mini life support packs attached (i also tried putting them in the seat inventories but nothing changed)

Screenshot of the craft in question, both in the VAB and on the launchpad with the LS UI?

Edited January 20, 2016 by RoverDude

[Kowgan]

2 hours ago, RoverDude said:

Screenshot of the craft in question, both in the VAB and on the launchpad with the LS UI?

Something similar is happening to me. I can see the vessel on the list normally, in the VAB and Launchpad. But every time I bring a new vessel to the launchpad, my LS list resets and shows only the current (launchpad) vessel. Then, I gotta visit each of my vessels again to put them back on the list.

http://i.imgur.com/u2UlrJz.png
Log: http://puu.sh/mCuir/ff1ddf953c.txt

[PocketBrotector]

9 hours ago, Kowgan said:

Something similar is happening to me. I can see the vessel on the list normally, in the VAB and Launchpad. But every time I bring a new vessel to the launchpad, my LS list resets and shows only the current (launchpad) vessel. Then, I gotta visit each of my vessels again to put them back on the list.

I've got something similar, I think... I have Vessel 1 on the runway (with plenty of Supplies); when I go to launch Vessel 2 from the launchpad, all of my crew from Vessel 1 go MIA. Not sure if I am missing something here.

[apocriva]

I haven't explored too deeply outside of Kerbin's own moons, so I want to make sure I understand the new habitation/homesick mechanic before sending Kerbals off on a mission that they won't be able to complete!

First concern... So the way I read things, if homesickness is enabled, there is an absolute cap of one month after which a Kerbal will suffer homesickness. I don't see this as being configurable, and given that I'm not sure how long missions to outer bodies usually are (months? years?), I'm concerned that there's no way to lead an expedition to outer bodies without Kerbals getting homesick for the duration of their deployment.

Second concern... My understanding is that hab time is calculated per-vessel, and from what I read it appears as though the hab time for an individual Kerbal is reset when they transfer vessels. Is it possible to get into a situation where, say, a lander undocks from a station and that reduces the hab time of the station such that all Kerbals aboard are suddenly homesick because their hab time has expired? (Possible exploit: Is it possible to reset a Kerbal's hab time by having them transfer to another vessel and back?)

Thanks so much! I'm disappointed that we're doing overtime at work right now and I don't have as much time as I'd like to play with this new update. The supply/habitation mechanics really add a lot of fun to KSP for me.

[RoverDude]

Incorrect, the time before homesickness kicks in is based on the hab to crew ratio of the vessel.  Even in stock, a Mk-12 pod with a spare hitchhiker can and a two man crew can easily do a Duna mission.  You might need two hitchhikers to make it to eeloo.

For your second concern, you should be ok if you design your vessels accordingly (i.e. provided your main hab is still the main vehicle you are ok).  I suppose bad things would happen if your habs suddenly blew up or something   For the second part - not an exploit, it's why I keep both timers.  No hopping around will save you from the eventual long-term timer.  

[Kowgan]

So, theres no static/default value for the kerbal homesick (not habitat) feature, independent from the vessel? It's always based on the vessel he's in?
Or, if there is, what is this value? 10 years?

Edited January 20, 2016 by Kowgan

[rakol]

So first post and a bit of a confused user. 

Firstly though... love the mods. 

Okay so I've ran into some problems when in the VAB and and Launchpad concerning what the LS UI box is showing me in terms of days of supplies. Images first.

Easily seen... basic Mk2 lander, 2 x 100 supply minipack and a 1000EC battery on top. 

In Vab with 1 crew: 12days supply , 2 crew: 6 days, go to launch and it shows 3d. 

Reading back I saw you mention kerbals use 15 supplies a day.  So the VAB readout looks fine, but maybe I am missing something or I did something wrong?

Just to make sure I didn't mess up a install (though its still possible) I redownloaded the mods from the github and same results before and after. 

Output log here  (hope I got the right log) 

[Gribbleshnibit8]

Was playing today and right clicked on my crew module and noticed that there's a 'wear' value. A brief search showed me it's coming from this mod.

1. Is there an updated readme/guide on what things USI-LS does now, since this mechanic is not covered in the first post? If not can this information be added to the first post (it should be anyway though)?
2. Is there a way to turn this off?

 

[RoverDude]

If you are not using MKS/OKS or don't have the hab values turned on, it will do nothing.

Will tweak the UI display in the next patch.

 

4 hours ago, rakol said:

So first post and a bit of a confused user. 

Firstly though... love the mods. 

Okay so I've ran into some problems when in the VAB and and Launchpad concerning what the LS UI box is showing me in terms of days of supplies. Images first.

Easily seen... basic Mk2 lander, 2 x 100 supply minipack and a 1000EC battery on top. 

In Vab with 1 crew: 12days supply , 2 crew: 6 days, go to launch and it shows 3d. 

Reading back I saw you mention kerbals use 15 supplies a day.  So the VAB readout looks fine, but maybe I am missing something or I did something wrong?

Just to make sure I didn't mess up a install (though its still possible) I redownloaded the mods from the github and same results before and after. 

Output log here  (hope I got the right log) 

Looks like a small display bug - it's double counting crew capacity

[BrutalRIP]

8 hours ago, PocketBrotector said:

I've got something similar, I think... I have Vessel 1 on the runway (with plenty of Supplies); when I go to launch Vessel 2 from the launchpad, all of my crew from Vessel 1 go MIA. Not sure if I am missing something here.

i had this too, hyper editing to minimus and the crew stays put

[Brigadier]

26 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

If you are not using MKS/OKS or don't have the hab values turned on, it will do nothing.

How does one turn hab values on and off?

[RoverDude]

By setting the penalties to 0.  This is the default unless you have one of the colony mods installed (or want harder stuff)

[RoverDude]

Also - you have a new update

0.3.2 - 2016.01.20 
------------------
Fixed an issue where crew were being doubled when showing the supplies left in the UI
Updated a few issues where the Kerbal's supply counter was not updating properly
Wear is off by default, and when not enabled, will not show in the GUI
 

[crash087]

 

heres my ship, it shows the time in the hangar, but once its on the pad or launched, nothing shows up

[tater]

I have the same issue as crash087, and I just checked with the brand new update as well.

[RoverDude]

Try with the latest release.  Beyond that, try on a new save.

[Brigadier]

1 hour ago, RoverDude said:

By setting the penalties to 0.  This is the default unless you have one of the colony mods installed (or want harder stuff)

I wasn't entirely clear...my fault...so the answer still leaves me baffled.  I meant to ask in what interface does one change the hab values.  I'm concluding that one makes a change in a .cfg file somewhere and not in via a UI somewhere.

[ExplorerKlatt]

1 minute ago, Brigadier said:

I wasn't entirely clear...my fault...so the answer still leaves me baffled.  I meant to ask in what interface does one change the hab values.  I'm concluding that one makes a change in a .cfg file somewhere and not in via a UI somewhere.

Yes all settings are in a cfg file. 

[tater]

1 hour ago, RoverDude said:

Try with the latest release.  Beyond that, try on a new save.

I already tried with the release from tonight, I'll start a new save and get right back to you.

[tater]

New career works fine.

[Kowgan]

Oh noes, I hope this won't be a perma save-breaking update.

[Kobymaru]

1 hour ago, Kowgan said:

Oh noes, I hope this won't be a perma save-breaking update.

I gotta say, I'm having a rough time porting. Maybe I can make ends meet eventually...

For the people who say "BUT IT SAID GAME BREAKING!!!" Well, that's fine and well, but if I would start a new save every time Squad or a modder releases a bigger update, all my saves would consist of about one Mun landing. I need to keep my save even when things like this happen.

[Kaa253]

18 minutes ago, Kobymaru said:

...Well, that's fine and well, but if I would start a new save every time Squad or a modder releases a bigger update, all my saves would consist of about one Mun landing. ...

I know this all too well.

This update looks intriguing and I am keen to try it. Would it be appropriate to add Hab support to selected parts of Nertea's stockalike station mod? parts http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/82833-105-stockalike-station-parts-expansion-06012016-105-update-and-bugfixes/&page=1. I think so. I see that LSModule.cfg contains suggested values.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Kaa253

[Snarfster]

1 hour ago, Kobymaru said:

I gotta say, I'm having a rough time porting. Maybe I can make ends meet eventually...

For the people who say "BUT IT SAID GAME BREAKING!!!" Well, that's fine and well, but if I would start a new save every time Squad or a modder releases a bigger update, all my saves would consist of about one Mun landing. I need to keep my save even when things like this happen.

Only suggestion I could give you would be this:

Add hyperedit to your modlist. Make a good list of before the update and after. Replace what got deleted with hyperedit.